Single handers for swinging?

[Rick J]

I have not fouled a steelhead using these big flies but you raise a good point - I will ask Scott when I see him this spring.

I hope to make it over this Sat when Mike McCune is giving a demonstration on skagit casting - might be worth asking him the same question?

[Darian]

Rick,.... Meaning no disrespect and not wanting to belabor the point.... I'm still not sure I agree. The water I've been fishing from a Panga is around Isla Cerralvo (La Ventana area). During the course of tidal changes there, a current sets up and the surface of the water looks a lot like a river (even when the wind doesn't blow). IMHO, balancing in the bow of a panga on a hot day with a 2' - 3' swell running (during a breeze I might add) while trying to cast is at least as difficult as casting while wading in a river (....from my own experience with both). Each has it's own problems but I don't think either one is any more tiring than the other.... Casting out of a bass boat in the delta or the american just doesn't make me tired. Like I said; that may change as I grow older....

Cool flies. I guess that's what's necessary to catch 'em in the big water. Almost the size of a plug (Wee Warts ). When on the coast, I'm used to classic Salmon/Steelhead patterns.... Something between sizes 8 thru 4.

[Rick J]

Darian,

None taken. If you are casting flies like you describe (size 4) then you can pretty easily use a single handed rod (but it is easier with a 2-hander!). And in tight quarters, spey casts are a must to effectively cover the water - again easier with a switch or a 2-hander.

I still say if you are using big flies as I describe, there is no way someone could effectively and easily fish these all day with a single handed rod without beating yourself up especially if you do not have back casting room. But they are certainly not for everyone or for every type of water.

[tom2cast]

Rick,
one can incorporate the spey techniques with the single handed rod. I use them with my 9 1/2 9wt single hander quite a lot. The Perry Poke, Snap T, Snake Roll, and Roll Cast can easily be performed with a single handed rod with a little practice. I'm rarely in the air with the false cast on the 9wt. I bring the line in for a quick roll cast to the surface and then shoot the line. A lot of my friends have switch rods, but I've stayed true to the single-handed rod and can cast it all day with #4-#2 weighted flies.
-tom

[Rick J]

Tom,
But I bet you would struggle casting the big tube flies and string leeches I show which can be very deadly on steelhead. No question you can spey cast with a single hander - it is just far easier and less work with a switch.

If you are in the Sacramento area this weekend stop down and watch Mike McCune with the short skagits on Saturday - it is an eye opener

[Darian]

Rick,.... Since you're also an experienced saltwater guy, I know you've seen saltwater flies for billfish and large Roosters that can be as long as 8" to 10" and very bulky (read difficult to cast). Many have trailer hooks, as well. I'm sure the flies you use are quite heavy but not as large as those. Altho Clousers, Whistlers and some bottom bouncers are....

I have to acknowledge that you know a h__l of a lot more about spey casting than I. So, I guess what we can take from this discussion is that each type rod has its place and time in which it is the best tool for the job.

My example of casting out of a panga in rough saltwater is one instance where a spey rod would not be the best choice, regardless of whether it's easier to cast or not. Why Because, aside from the obvious problems of two casters and a captain in a 22' boat, you couldn't bring a fish in to land it easily (not saying it can't be done....). But, it's tough enough to do that with a 9 footer.

[tom2cast]

Rick,
saw your tube leeches and I wouldn't mind trying to cast one with my single handed rod. I'll see if I could take a video of the cast.
I can forward you my address if you wish.

I was at the Sandy River Spey Clave a few years ago when Simon Gawesworth gave the class, he showed us a few techniques for casting the long heavy weighted leeches.
-tom

Tom,
But I bet you would struggle casting the big tube flies and string leeches I show which can be very deadly on steelhead. No question you can spey cast with a single hander - it is just far easier and less work with a switch.

If you are in the Sacramento area this weekend stop down and watch Mike McCune with the short skagits on Saturday - it is an eye opener

[Rick J]

Darian and Tom,
The original thread relates to using a single hander vs two hander when swinging for steelhead so I agree with you Darian - No question, I would not use a switch or even a very long rod when fishing in the salt especially from a boat. It can be a struggle to keep upright in a boat in rolling waves and I agree can be as tiring as wading - but the actual casting is easier standing in the boat. I do often use a spey type cast to get things going from the bow - say a snake roll or snap c to get the line close then go into a single or at most two overhead casts. But it is easier to actually lift the line off the water when you are a few feet above it in a boat than when you are wading waste deep. So I now rarely cast overhead when I am steelhead fishing even when there is backcast room. It is more effort and more time consuming than using spey casts

So back to the original post of what to use when swinging. The new short skagit lines have really helped spey casting with shorter rods - either switches or single handers. The switches I have are really just single handers that I have converted to switches (3 old Fisher rods - a 10' 7wt; 10' 8 wt and a 10.5' 8/9 wt). These were my go to rods when fishing the N Umpqua before I saw the light and started playing with two handers. I mostly use T-14 now for tips and if using the big flies, having a heavier line really helps turn things over. I can still cast these rods single handed using spey casts but it requires far less effort to use them with two hands - it requires very little energy and a very short casting stroke to fire off the next cast. I know you can cast the big flies with a single hander but it is easier and less effort when using a heavier skagit line rather than a typical WF single handed line, and these lines are easier to cast with two hands.

Nice thread!!

[Darian]

Hmmmm,.... Guess I drifted off point a bit. Having a senior moment/day or two.... Did I mention I have and use a Switch rod.... I've swung flies all my adult life on a single hander but have to concede that when swinging a fly on the switch rod, I enjoy it more. So, as Carl says, "use the proper tool for the job."

[590Mike]

In talking with a spey guy, his take was spey casters get more drifts per day as the "set-up" took 4-6 seconds and a single hander could take an average of 20 seconds due to the amount of backcasts. With that said I'm with Carl on the fighting and landing a fish, especially landing because most of the time I see long rodders dragging the fish to the bank and that damages scales. I don't want to age anyone, but, as a kid I remember Lee Wulff fishing for Atlantic Salmon with a 6' rod. It seems like it was Kurt Gowdys show outdoor show, anyone remember? And yes it was a color tv...I think