ISE San Mateo vs ISE Sacramento

[Fats]

Is the ISE in SM better for fly fishing than the ISE in Sacramento. I heard all of the build up that they were putting a lot more effort into the fly fishing section this year and I must say... I was underwhelmed yesterday at the Cal Expo. Seemed to be on par with last years. It was a fun day walking around but... nothing really stood out.

Is my opinion misguided or have I just stated the obvious?

[Jay Murakoshi]

Here's my outlook on both shows

Being that I attended both shows and did presentations both in the fly fishing theater and tying theater.
San Mateo: The attendance this year was somewhat higher than last year because of AFFTA bringing in the major manufactures. But once again a lot of the major manufactures didn't bring their whole layout. Cutting cost is the name of the game.
I would say that the attendance in both the tying theater and the presentation theater were well attended. But once again, it's what a person goes for and what they want to see.
AFFTA will be part of the ISE San Mateo show for the next two years. Time will tell if this will work.

Sacramento:
Thursday, Friday and Saturday attendance was higher than San Mateo. The only thing available in the fly fishing section was the tying theater and the "How to Fly Tying Section". A few shops and manufactures lined the aisles, a lot of Alaska lodges, kayak shops, drift boats, etc... The Fly Tying theater attendance was up and down... Depending on who was tying and what was being tied made the head count.
Too me it looked like a lot of people were buying. I hung around in a couple booths talking to people and the best part of my day was watching the Splash Dogs. I also talked to a resort located in the East Cape and we are in the process of working something out for future dates. They've been asking me for a number of years if I would do a fly fishing school/clinic out of there resort. I'm looking over my calendar and seeing if I can squeeze in a few weeks next year. I'm even kicking around the idea of having a combination trip of 3 and 3. Three days out of La Paz and three days on the East Cape.
Time will tell

Anyway back to the subject....Both Ken & I have talked about this

Let's hear some opinions but we don't need to get nasty... Too those who are going to post the nasty comments, here's my thing - if you don't like the show, try promoting one yourself..... Not egotistic - just realistic

Jay

Thanks to Bill Carnazzo for spending time getting the tyers for the "How To Fly Tying" section..... David Lee, ya did good in the theater

[Fats]

I'm not looking to get nasty and lord know I wouldn't want to be promoting one myself... I was just curious. I spent a couple of minutes walking through the fly tying demo area... not much was going on so I didn't stick around much. I've done those things before and... I know how distracting it can be to be asked a bunch of questions by people that don't know anything about tying a fly. It gets you off your pace.

I think it would be nicer to see more of the manufacturers at the shows, but I understand that budgets are tight and shows are an expense.

One question.. was Umpqua at the San Mateo show?

[Jay Murakoshi]

If I'm not mistaken, Umpqua was one of the sponser's for the learning center. Umpqua themselves didn't have a booth. I haven't seen companies like Umpqua, Spirit River, etc.
at any of the shows for quite a number of years.

I didn't mean or say that you were making any nasty comments but I'm sure there are some out there who would like to make comments... Enough don't want to drag this message on

Jay

[David Lee]

... I know how distracting it can be to be asked a bunch of questions by people that don't know anything about tying a fly. It gets you off your pace.

Hi Fats !

That's exactly WHY I go to Tyers row - I LOVE the interaction w/ folks , no matter what skill level . The only 'down' side is .... after a few days doing it , you don't want to be around anyone .

For myself .... the RUSH of seeing that light turn-on in someones eyes when you explain why/how/what you are doing to turn out that lovely bug ..... THAT makes it !!

I've had the 'old guard' tyers come and watch me , and I was suprised that they were actually interested , I have conventional Bass guys come up (they don't much give a flip about fly stuff ...) and have an instant bond w/ them because I speak the same language (I'd guess that most of them walk away thinking that all fly folks are NOT A-holes ...) , I have kids and women that don't have a clue .... 5 minutes into it - they BELIEVE they can do it !!!

Tying for the public at large ...... it makes my year , no jive . There is no amount of $$$$ that I'd take to miss doing this .

Ummmmm .... back to the question - I've never been to San Mateo . Sac ISE is fun to work at , for the reasons above ..... but I doubt I would go just because . $15.00 to get in , $10.00 to park is just a little too silly in our current economic state .

Just my opinions .....

David

[Darian]

Even tho the number of vendors is down from prior years, I still like to go if for nothing more than visiting with people I haven't seen for a while. Beyond that, I believe the condition of the economy and the fact that we got used to making great buys at the show, but didn't the rest of the year, contributed to the decline in the number of vendors.... I did see some good prices but they weren't attached to what I was interested in.

My original goal for this show was to see of there's anything new in Bass Boats (within my price range). I found out that there was and may be looking to make a buy, soon.

One of the thing I usually enjoy doing is going thru the hunting hall (lookin' for a Sigg, 9 mm, semi auto) but couldn't make it this time....

[k.hanley]

As Jay M. mentioned we are both interested in what everyone values the most about "Expo-style events." Certainly it is a big part of our professional work. We want to be sure we provide interesting and relevent experiences for the public attending these shows.

It's interesting to note, and track, the regional preferences as we travel around the States. Sometimes the emphasis is on product sales, at other times it's on outreach and education, networking is a key ingredient, and more. The "art and science" of producing effective show experiences is pretty complicated.

We hope to share an experience with many of you. Your feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Cheers, Ken
PS: The FF industry isn't immune to changing demographics and economy cycles as you well know. What you might not be aware of however, is that the entire "expo" business arena is experiencing a dramatic down cycle the past few years (it doesn't matter what the content target has been...high tech, home & garden, crafts, etc).

[JD]

Being fairly new to the sport and shows (about 7 years), I'm not familiar with the history surrounding these events, but I personally feel that all the shows have undergone a steady decline since I first started going in 2001. ISE San Mateo used to be better than Sacramento because more of the out-of-state shops would attend. Gradually those shops stopped coming. The 2008 show the San Mateo show was a complete dissappointment with the actual fly fishing section being reduced to half the original size and the once grand tying theater and tiers rows were crammed into a back corner. The 2008 San Mateo show was so bad, that I did not even bother going to the 2009 show, despite AFTMA's attempts to revive it (a failed attempt, by some reports).

Sadly, the Sacramento show has also declined precipitously. If it weren't for the proximity and the fly tying, I would probably skip that show as well. And before anyone mentions the Pleasanton "Fly Fishing Show" as an alternative, that one has also been sliding downhill over the last couple of years.

I am not sure how representative my interests are, but as an avid tier I go first and foremost for tying events/instruction/retail opportunities. If there are no retailers and the events/instruction are the same thing every year, then there's very little incentive to attend these large shows.

With the economic downturn, one would expect attendance to decline eventually for these sort of events. However in my case the shows started losing their relevancy long before the economy turned significantly south. I imagine oversatuation of the market has something to do with it, considering there are 3 shows for the immediate area. Whatever the case, as the goose/duck calls increasing makes it hard to hear in the fly fishing pavilion, my enthusiasm for ISE dimishes.

[k.hanley]

JD thank you for the honesty. Certainly a valued perspective indeed. You are not alone in your perception or experience.

The overall question of "Are the large shows becoming obsolete?" is the key issue at hand. Expos around the country, by all promotion groups and ownership, are dealing with this business shift. The paradigm of personal face-to-face contact is being challenged every day.

I still believe the shows have a positive potential. I want to believe the public will help sort out the details for surviving in this arena. Thanks again for posting. Much appreciated.
Cheers, Ken

[Darian]

Just thinking out loud, here, one of the problems involved for show producers is combining the many, diverse activities (fishing, hunting, boating, etc.) in outdoor recreation to the satisfaction of all attendees.... I'm always looking for something innovative or new. Sometimes it's there, sometimes not. I usually learn something, tho. Those who attend for a singular activity (e.g. fly tying) are probably not going to be satisfied with the current format....

Not easy to eliminate the distractions created by the noises generated by each. I've been able to "tune them out" but others find it annoying.... Don't know how to solve that or even if it could be.... Sacto ISE has a good venue for some separation but it's still noisy.... It's, also, not easy to eliminate distractions from attending in this area. When the weather's good people tend to stay outdoors. If it's bad, they go fishing or hunting.

One of the big attractions for all of these shows is the Splash Dogs. Maybe that type of attraction is a solution for consideration. Maybe a monster truck or tractor pull.... Of course, that would increase the cost and distractions....

One of the major issues for me is the parking (cost and availability) and the cost of the ticket. That's one I can't solve either, Gotta pay for the premises....

Maybe we all got spoiled by the great shows of the past....