Delta 5-18-08

[KD]

The photo of the"corner" "Stacker" is showing could present a number of topwater casts IF they are strategically placed. Possibly 5 along the front from left to right. Hard to say given the camera angle. It could also provide opportunity for a number of casts ON TOP OF THE LAYDOWNS(tules on the water). hint!.

Topwater with fly patterns is one thing. Fishing subsurface fly or conventional is another. I have found that the first presentation is most important with topwater flyfishing. Accurate and stealthy presentations are key to making multiple topwater flycasts to an area and getting subsequent results. Multiple presentations is easy to do pitching/ flipping plastics or subsurface fly and can provide the same opportunity as the first cast. Picking it apart cast after cast subsurface. Nothing wrong with that.

I feel that if i have covered the area efficiently and with precision i move on. Lot's of cover to fish out there. The topwater 10+lb fish came on the first cast not the second... so did the topwater 6.5's,5's,7's,7.5(postspawn),4's, 3's, 2's, and most dinks client's have caught recently. Make the first cast count.

Apples and oranges or apples to apples, or maybe oranges to oranges? There is a difference. I don't care as long as there is some yellow on it

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Thanks KD.

I am entered in the Fly Fishing Only Bass Tournament on Friday, May 30 in the Delta which kind of makes me giggle just thinking about it.

I hope they have a prize for last place?

[Tony P]

KD,

This being a fly fishing board I'm trying to compare apples to apples & I agree with you whole heartedly that the first cast is the most important weather fishing topwater or subsurface. With that said I think boat/casting position & a accurate cast should be your number one concern. One other thing one might want to think about is whether they are playing a numbers game or are they targeting the larger fish. If it's a numbers game I would first target the outer edges of the cover & work my way in but if I was targeting the largest fish in the area I would go for the heart of the cover if the cast presents itself. Those are just a few things to think about but as you know there are some many variables that will position the fish such as weather, current, shade, etc....

Tony P

P.S. I hope your whacking them while poor saps like me are working

[KD]

Some good stuff here Tony! I'll go for the heart every time. The best shot, the best feeding position, the first cast. Everything else follows....that's the plan anyway

It's all the fun you can have.

PS..are you fishing the BnF Challenge? Hope to see you there!

[Tony P]

Ken asked me to come fish it but my partner here at work is out of town until mid June. I hope everyone has a good time & please everyone wear your PFD.

Tony P

[Hairstacker]

This has turned into a very interesting discussion. In the photo pictured above, I did in fact shoot for what I considered to be the single best shot at the whole thing, which I judged to be about 2' - 3' to the right of where you see that stick sticking up just right of center in the photo. You may think some other location represents a better first target but, keep in mind, I did get the fish.

I too prefer to take the best shot on the 1st cast, depending of course on the size, type, and configuration of the cover. I believe bass are more aware of their surroundings than many folks realize (which I'm sure you guys know). I mean, how many times have you had a crazed bass charge your fly, creating a v-wake on the surface, from 10 feet away. Or how about getting hung up on a tule with your fly dangling over the water, only to have it land in the maw of a good bass when you got it to fall free? Of course, that's not to say a bass will always move far for your fly, as it seems like sometimes you have to land it on her head. I guess my point is I prefer to give that bass the best opportunity to eat my fly rather than risk putting her off by casting around her. 1st cast, best shot.

Too bad we don't have a library of cover photos on here so that we can collectively pick them apart as to how we each would approach them. I think that also would prove to be a very interesting discussion.

Kevin, regarding that fish, sorry to mis-characterize the catch -- for some reason I could have sworn it was a 2nd cast but obviously I was incorrect. Thanks for correcting the record.

I'm glad you guys are piping in -- we need more discussions like this!

[Tony P]

It is a great discussion =D> & it just goes to show that nothing is set in stone as there are many different techniques & presentations that could work. What I like to do just to satisfy my own curiosity is when I catch a fish of a piece of cover like your picture shows I like to try & figure why the fish was there for example was there some type of structure (anything that changes the bottom contour such as a small point, humps, creek channel that swings in to that area, etc..) that was under the water that wasn't visible. If there was some type of structure that cover was sitting on then I would make a note of it & fish that same spot several times in the day & in any future trips since this would be the type of place that would keep replenishing with new fish.

Tony P

[mikenewman]

if I offended anyone like "mikenewman" I apologize since he seems to think I was either correcting the way you fish or criticizing you.

Tony

I'm frankly baffled that you have interpreted my light hearted response as indicative of my having taken offence or indeed why you you think I'd be offended by a post addressed to somebody else.(I aint that sensitive a flower ) My response simply states that in the hypothetical "shoot out" along the lines suggested in your post, I would put my money on Hairstacker. Here's why:
When I'm playing the topwater game, I'm constantly looking for structure or alignments of structure that suggest a likely bass presence. If I'm right and there is a fish then she is stationed with a window of the surface that becomes my target for presenting the bug. That target may be the size of a kitchen table or a dinner plate, according to circumstances. My aim is to make the presentation in or through the window as attractively as possible. As has already been acknowledged, the first presentation gives the highest likelihood of drawing a strike. Repeated presentations to the same window will act on the law of diminishing returns. Looking at Mike's photo, to present 15+ times would, to my mind, be flogging a sick horse. To present 15+ times right after a sharpshooting young buck like Hairstacker has just had a shot would mean that the horse was pretty much dead
Let's say there is time for 300 casts in a fishing session. It just seems more effective to me to try to present 300 highest percentage casts to bassy looking windows than 300 diminishing percentage casts to 20 such windows. (And let's face it, bassy looking spots on the Delta are like London buses - don't worry if you miss one, there'll be another one along in a second!)

Anyway, reading the subsequent posts, I suspect that in the end we are probably all singing off the same sheet which is something like "Be meticulous in your approach, thorough in your preparation and accurate in your delivery - and the rest is up to the fish!"

Finally, Bill's Board is a wonderful facility for many reasons but for me it really comes alive like this when we get some informed opinions that result in a bit of controversy, debate and some grown up argument. At best it can result in genuine knowledge being passed on; at worst it's just plain entertaining!

Offended? Not me, mate

Cheers

Mike

[Hairstacker]

sharpshooting young buck like Hairstacker

Is there another Hairstacker on this board?!?

Tony -- I too am often intrigued by why bass are regularly attracted to a given spot, and I will often try to figure it out if it's not obvious. In the areas I fish regularly, I am also equally intrigued why certain, apparently attractive areas don't seem to ever hold any fish. I know there's a reason but sometimes I can't figure it out. It makes me really appreciate the good ones that do regularly produce.

Reminds me of an experiment I read about once. They placed a bunch of bass in a small, featureless round swimming pool and, after they settled down, they noticed they kind of distributed themselves all over the pool. But, as soon as they laid a small pile of rocks on the bottom in one spot, ALL of the bass hung out next to those rocks. I've never forgotten those before and after pictures.

[Sturmer White]

Hey Bill
You can't have last place. I had dibs on it long ago.
Sturm