installing loops

[HC]

Darian, I don't think banket statements apply here, grin, unlesss you know exactly how the other person goes about forming and placing the loops and knots on the line and braid. There are plenty of variables. For example, if I place my 14 inch braid + loop on the fly line and place one nail knot at the base of the braid, and a second NK an inch up the braid, the arrangement leaves 13 inches of braid above the second NK to do the stretch, shrink and grab business. Under strain its the second NK that is subjected to tensile strain, not the first NK at the base. Under failure of the second NK as you described, (cover slip), strain is shifted to the first nail knot, which will hold 'til strain is relieved. But 'til the first NK does fail you are stilll connected to your rig via the braid and you have a second chance to recover your fish, line and so on. The way I think it works is that a stress failure will occur right at the clinch point of the second NK because that is the point where there is no give or further stretch available and is the reason why the cover serarates from the line core by accumulated strain transition. This assumes good tight nail knots are placed. I hope this helps you understand my reasoning. Harley

[Darian]

Harley,.... I understand what you're saying.... I just don't agree with the basis for your statement of the problem.... Not an expert but I'm not sure there should be much stress on the second knot unless the first fails. The first knot is supported by the braids grip on the tip of the fly line. IMHO, without that gripping action, your idea becomes more likely. To me, the second knot is overkill but there're others who feel as you do....

If you feel that the second knot is necessary, so be it. I haven't experienced any failures on my set-up and had a bunch of "hard pullers" on in Baja while using it. Maybe I'll reconsider, in the future, if I do have a failure.

As I said in my prior post, "to each his own".

[HC]

Hey No problema, Your opinion is as valid as anyone elses thats the fun of it all. But for me the second nail knot is so easy to tie on that is certainly not over kill any more having a spare tire. Anyway now I have some testing to do to find where failures are likely to occur and if that second knot is necessary. I plan to check Bill Nash system as well for loopinhg mono shooting lines. Anyway, I think all the testing is not much more than proving that the leader should act as the fail safe, not the loop. Best, Harley PS You guys did not disappoint.

[Darian]

Hmmmm,.... After thinking about this subject, I wonder how many of us check the mono nail knots on our braided loops after installation and at what interval Another question, for me, is does anyone here use a thread material (Spectra, etc.) for the nail knot rather than mono

Seems like using something like Spectra to tie the nail knot would make a flexible/strong (....tensile strength) and neater knot. Anyone see any difficulties with this idea

[Jay Murakoshi]

Bill/Darian,

Now that we are on the subject of braided loops. I'm sitting here and making up a bunch for the upcoming baja trips. Let's see, it's around 1:30am, can't sleep. I'm also editing and working on the DVD and working on the Baja papers.

A note of interest...... The last couple days, I have been thinking about adding a fly tying page to my web site. There will be some of the patterns I tie and patterns from others. But, I will have a step by step tying photo's and tying captions under the photo's. All I have to do is sit down and figure out how to make each pattern on a separate page and have a link to each particular pattern. This will definitely take some time to shoot the photo's and paste them to a page. I already have the templates.

What's you're opinion

Jay

[Jay Murakoshi]

Opps, I forgot.... I was going to mention that if I can find some time, I'll do a short Quick time movie on how I make my braided loops. It's not hard to do the loops.

Jay

[Darian]

Hi Jay,..... I'm up for it.... Fly tying on your website would be really interesting and informative. When do you have time to do all of the "stuff" you do

Maybe you should consider writing a book.... (....big initial investment, less maintenance )

[Hairstacker]

I too use the method described on Blanton's website. I put one 9-turn nail knot on at the base and put a drop of superglue on it. I would expect the fly line to break before one of these loop setups do.

[HC]

Jay, Your ideas are good. Fly tieing from a master is hard to beat. I can't wait to see you video. Harley

[Adam Grace]

I like to use 8lb fluorocarbon to nail-knot off my loops, then I coat the nail-knot in Loon's UV Knotsense which creates a smooth bubble/coating over the knot that will slide through the rod's guides easier than a super-glued knot.