Tag out!

[jhaquett]

Jbird,

Are hatchery fish a part of our rivers just to keep catch and kill fishermen who couldn't care if it was wild or not quiet?

Excuse me for asking a fly fishing board that question if it happens to be in the regulations....I realize how great of a faux pas that is

[jbird]

Mr. jhaquett

It sounds to me like you have been offended deeply by this topic. There is no other explanation than a lack of education. TJs "tone" was exersized by his deep passion for native steelhead.

Hatchery fish are there for the substinance fisherman. They are to encourage the take of clipped fish and the realease of wild fish. There is no easy answer to the prevention of declining wild fish numbers. We are given hatchery fish to save the wild fish, but in the process the hatcheries interbread with the natives and delute the gene pool. A "rock and a hard place". Killing hatchery steelhead is only going to assure that the fish you killed will have no chance of spawing with a natve fish....Which is a good thing. If it doesnt go up a tributary and in fact ends up in the hatchery. It becomes cat food and fertilizer.
Form your own oppinion on this. I deeply believe it to be true.

Jay

[Darian]

Your question is being addressed to an Oregon resident and I can't answer for him. However, in California, hatchery bred Steelhead, Trout and Salmon are the result of construction of artificial barriers to spawning areas (e.g. dams, wiers, etc.). As a part of the programs responsible for construction of these barriers, mitigation was included to offset for loss of spawning habitat necessary for survival of these species.

At the time of construction of these hatcheries, the impacts of hatchery bred fish on naturally spawning fish was not well understood and, in truth, there was an element of recognition that the fishing public (fly/gear fisherman) would not easily accept the loss.... So, I guess the reasons are a little of both, appeasement and mitigation.

Since that time (within the last two years), a newer motivation for maintaining hatcheries has come up. With the passage of AB 7, hatchery funding was guaranteed by mandate. The bill was sponsored by Chambers of Commerce and commercial (wholesale/retail interests), mainly in the eastern and southern Sierra districts but applicable, statewide.

[jhaquett]

No I wasn't offended, certainly not deeply offended, just tired of the constant condescending nature of his posts.

Basically, all I was asking you was, do you think that if everyone would accept catch and release, would we have hatchery steelhead? I thought part of the reason they were around was to increase the chance of successful spawning at least with one of the members being wild?

[Bryan Morgan]

Charlie, I am with you. With the population boom in our local area and the taking of any of the Salmonid species on our local AR is something that is going to deplete the runs to a point that we wont even have the opportunity to target these wonderful fish. If your livelyhood doesn't depend on it, you can always buy it in the store.

[jbird]

You guys, Hatchery fish are a renewable resource. They are pretty much Tyson Chicken! It is very important...like BigTJ pointed out, To know how to identify hatchery fish. A hatchery steelhead in all westcoast fisheries that I am aware of have had their adipose fin clipped as smolts before release from the hatchery. An adult or even a 1/2 pounder will have a (usually) clearly removed adipose fin with no sign of a scar. If there is a scar there, its possible some joker caught a wild fish, clipped the fin and released it...yes, people are doing that who are opposed to the restriction on wild fish.


The adipose fin is the small, fleshy fin between the dorsal fin and tail

It is absolutely false that hatchery fish are bread in hopes of interbreeding with wild fish. That is a tragic result of hatchery fish over-populating our rivers.

Killing hatchery fish is NOT going to decline the steelhead population. remember the potatoe chip add? "Go ahead and eat them...We'll make more"


Its a misconception that releasing hatchery fish will help the steelhead population. If you really want to help, get involved in habitat enhancement programs. Dont walk on redds when your wading (this is HUGE). Land your fish quickly with beefy equipment and release them carefully.



The message I am trying to make...without causing an arument...is, dont be afraid to bonk a hatchery fish, thats why theyre there. Nobodies gonna yell at you for letting them go, but I'm tired of people whining when they see one tagged.

Jay

PS Joe, There is no differene in taste between wild and hatchery...this is an assumption since I've never eaten a wild steelhead. Both fish follow the same life cycle, eat the same stuff and are exposed to the same environment,

[mike N]

I took a steelhead once. It was a long time ago. I don't think there are enough fish in the A to justify taking them, even if they are clipped. At least that is what my catch rates tell me.

King salmon on the other hand.....

MN

[Charlie Gonzales]

Im gonna play totally ignorant on this just to see how you answer this, but arent hatchery fish spawned from the native fish that come up the ladder and then pen raised and released back to the wild as juvies. And even if this is remotely accurate then how can it weaken the gene pool that much. Its not like they come from a test tube.

And on the other hand just because it has an adipose fin doesnt mean it didnt come from a hatchery fish at one time.

We used to have quality runs of steelies on the American but that was 20 years ago. I would just like to see these numbers increase before advocating to kill your limit.

I am a hunter not a member of PETA. And stripers make great tacos so dont get me wrong.

[jbird]

Im gonna play totally ignorant on this just to see how you answer this, but arent hatchery fish spawned from the native fish that come up the ladder and then pen raised and released back to the wild as juvies. And even if this is remotely accurate then how can it weaken the gene pool that much. Its not like they come from a test tube.

And on the other hand just because it has an adipose fin doesnt mean it didnt come from a hatchery fish at one time.

Excellent points Charley! A good perspective i suppose.

I cant point out genetic differences between the two because I'm no scientist. Anyone who has caught a considerable amount of both will tell you there is a distinct difference in the way they fight(with a few exceptions) I dont know what that means exactly, but it does tell me there is a definate genetic difference between them,
I definitly dont have all the answers. What I do know is that hatchery fish are there for sportmen to take. I suppose my suggestion to tag every clipped fish you catch isnt one that will go over well on a flyfishing board. I probably could have thought a little longer before typing. But, what I will take to my grave is, its allright to take hatchery fish. And if they are using natives to brood the hatchery, how will taking hatchery fish hurt the future population? I will let the knowlagaeble guys like Tristan, BigTJ and Bubzilla ( didnt mean to leave anyone out ) explain the real threats to our fish population. Or you can search the archives and wake a dead horse, because its been discussed at great length.

Jay

[Digger]

bigtj,

Jlmelend never even said that we was going to do any steelhead fishing. He asked a very simple question. Maybe he is a bass fisherman who was just curious. Why do you ALWAYS feel the need (some way or another you WILL have a response of this manner in nearly every thread you post in) to treat people like that? Tomorrow you'll probably apologize for it, blaming it on a "bad day" and then do it again next week.... Just answer the question next time, for once

ditto.... but he's just that way. Tact is not one of his finer points.
It's the CKIA syndrome.