Nymphing for steelhead

[aaron]

Good point about conventional gear John.

I think my statement

If you nymph because you are concerned about numbers of fish then maybe you should reconsider the reasons you go fishing.

is being misunderstood. I look at it in terms of all of the disgusting angling I see and hear about on a daily basis during the fall/winter of anglers on the American and Trinity and other rivers as well. They have no desire to put the work in that constitutes true steelhead fishing and just wish to catch large numbers of fish for the purpose of bragging. As a consequence nymphers regularly pound the redds on the American and on the Trinity armadas of boats eagerly fish through bank anglers and treat the already stressed out fish poorly in order to get their "hero shots". The point to this is it seems like more and more people have lost site of what the steelhead experience should be. Working hard for fish and getting a chance to enjoy the beautiful scenery in which they are found. Not targeting fish that should be left alone for the purpose of showing off. I'd just as soon get skunked and enjoy the scenery rather than target a fish I know would I would do unjust harm. I know Jay and John are responsible fisherman so I could care less how they fish. The point of my original post was to ruffle the feathers of those who fish for fish that are to the point that they should be left alone. Their uniting factor so happens to be nymphing. It is just downright depressing seeing this day after day. My apologies if I offended anyone.

John I look forward to meeting you on the river, maybe the Trinity this fall? We can discuss around the campfire.

-Aaron

[Terry Thomas]

As fly fishers, we have fought many battles and unfortunately, the wars are far from over. The LAST thing we need to be doing is arguing among ourselves. Just fish...fly fish that is.
T.

[Jasonh]

Tristan, i hate to say it but the Skeena is a bad example. The reason the steelhead counts are down up there is due to the Canadian fish and game allowing commercial netting way past their alloted times and limits. This has been a big problem for many years now. The commercial sockeye fishery is a big money maker up there and it just so happens that the sockeye and steelhead enter the system at the same time. The government looks the other way because of all the money in commercial fishing. Swing or nymph fishing has nothing to do with the diminished runs of fish in BC. It is really what is happening in BC and i know there are a lot of efforts try to change what is going on up there.

[Rick J]

ok my turn!! I love to swing and rarely fish any other way. But as others have mentined, there is some water that is not conducive to the swing - in deep slots and runs, a steelhead will not come up for a swung fly - alot of this water exists on the NU - he may move to a deeply swung fly on a sink tip and he will more apt move to a fly/glob of eggs/or spoon/spinner bounced near the bottom. There are some great gear fishermen I know that love the game and love their environment and catch lots of fish and release most of them and I respect them immensely!

Now just because this fish is hanging out in a deep slot is not to say he is stressed or not an active steelhead so if you choose to fish this type of water, it makes sense to me that you should use the proper technique for this type of water and swinging is not it.

I will grant you that if you nymph, you will target fish that would not otherwise grab so you are stressing more fish by catching more fish but I do not buy the fact that most of these fish are already stressed and therefore should be left alone

[SuperFlyGuy]

How do you guys feel about using cast nets Rarely misses, quick landing, all fish caught can be released relatively unharmed, no flies or bait involved

HAHA you are so funny man. I mean technically if we didn't want to harm ANY fish, we'd use rubber cast nets, take your picture then release.
I think it brings up a good point though.

The fact that as fly fisherman, we are all just fishing. If we didn't want to harm fish at all, we'd pretty much just go out and cast leaders. But the fact is we do harm fish to a small degree, whether nymphing or swinging. The fact that catching them on nymphs will usually produce more fish is not debatable, but I don't see anyone complaining when the water temp is higher and people do great swinging. I don't think I've ever seen a fisherman, whether swing or nymph, say "Hey, you know what? Im catching WAY TOO many fish.. I think I'd better stop..." Sometimes on the A I would be happy just to catch 1 fish, either on nymph or swung.... or nightcrawler on a size 1 treble.. J/k!! But I think we are overlooking one big point also. *Ability* Some fly fisherman are masters, and can catch fish on a hook and peice of thread. Others, like myself are still learning (even after 4 years!), so we would try any fly to get into A fish if it calls for it on one of THOSE days. I don't think anyone would look down upon a beginner right?

Bottom line, people do what works for them... based on their ability, knowledge, and experiences. To each his own.. But at the end of the day we're all just fisherman.

[bigtj]

Aaron,

Well said. I see where you are coming from now and totally agree about the redd pounding. Thanks for clarifying and listening to what I had to say.

Best regards, talk to you later,

-John

[bubzilla]

Rick J nailed it. It's all about water type. I have caught literally hundreds of winter fish on Oregon's North Coast swinging wet flies in water that was hardly ever even into the mid 40s. At least 90 percent of them were hatchery brats. The key was even flow hydraulics characteristic of low gradient streams close to the ocean. In English: good swing water. Move a few miles upstream and it's time to nymph. Why? No even flow hydraulics; rather, pocket water and slots characteristic of high-gradient waters further from the ocean. Think Smith River: mouth compared to either of the forks. If you don't adjust, it's like playing golf with only one club.

Thing is, it tends to be a lot more crowded in the low-gradient stretches these days. Which means, as a matter of necessity, more nymphing.

The arguments about nymphing being unethical, or even more absurd somehow biologically dangerous to fisheries, are about as lame as it comes. When I hear that [expletive deleted], I just turn a deaf ear and shake my head in wonder at how the idiot whose mouth I now see moving has defied Darwinian theory for as long as they have. Choosing to swing only regardless of water type is purely about aesthetics. If that is someone's bag, then sincerely more power to them. They're going to be a wonderful caster someday that can wax poetically about fish and fauna for hours on end while nary drawing a breath. There is even a wonderful section of public property in Oregon set aside entirely, by operation of law, for their pursuit. They can go there and be marry! I would only ask that they please save the self-sanctimonious nonsense about protecting the fishery by fishing traditionally for that place. I think a lot of the rest of us would like to keep the lunacy localized to that one river at this point while fly anglers still have some semblance of credibility with professional biologists and other river users when it comes to actual threats to fisheries like habitat destruction and pollution. After all, when someone gets to the point of fishing with a fly with no hook, I think most of us would agree that person needs professional therapy and medication--not a pat on the back or a place in fishing lore.

[Darian]

Bubz.... =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[aaron]

"Bubzilla"

Before you turn your deaf ear and accuse me of being an idiot or a snob please take a moment to consider my point of view.

I choose to swing because it requires a fish to move considerably for the fly. Thus I feel I am targeting hot active fish that will be capable of surviving with as little damage as possible.

While you will still hook hot fish nymphing, the fly is much deeper and will move within inches of fish that hang deeper because they are stressed or conserving energy in order to complete their life's mission. In some cases you will be hooking a fish that may not have otherwise had the energy to expend chasing a swung fly.

Thus I target water conducive to swinging because I feel it gives me the best shot at healthy active fish.

To me steelhead are too valuable to risk using a method that I feel has a greater chance of targeting a fish that should be left alone. It is not about me being a snob, it is about trying to minimizing my impact on a fishery.

If fishing was all about catching to me like it is to some people then I'm sure I would actively Nymph. The fact is, to me, fishing is not all about catching. I find greater piece of mind knowing I enjoyed the outdoors and left a minimal impact than any number of fish landed can provide.

I would appreciate it if you considerred my point of view before calling me names or suggesting therapy/medication.

[jbird]

Aaron

the fly is much deeper and will move within inches of fish that hang deeper because they are stressed or conserving energy in order to complete their life's mission.

Why does this keep coming up? Why are deeper fish stressed? Do we have conclusive proof of this? ALL fish travel along the river bottom, it is the path of least resistance. That is THE primary reason we fish deep to them. Are you also suggesting then that swinging with a sinking head is plausably unethical?
Your stance on swinging and your reason for doing it is really elitist and you certainly arent the only one. I am sure there are dozens of readers out there that are in your camp that just arent speaking up. (which seems really odd to me) I honestly believe there is an underlying resentment (jealousy) for nymphing and the numbers it brings.
Just because you put on a nymph and an indicator doesnt automatically put you in the numbers. It is an extremely dificult technique to master. It takes very specific equipment, endless consentration and a profound understanding of river currents and steelhead behavior. I think these reasons are high on the list for swingers to keep swinging and look down on nymphing. Its easier to just say "what you are doing is wrong and unethical" than to put in the time and energy to understand a very technical method of steelheading.

I really wished I lived on a river that was condusive to swinging all the time. It is a much simpler technique and only takes the ability to cast a little. You dont have to wade as deep and you dont have to have pin point focus from start to finish. you dont need to be able to mentally disect a run into "buckets". And your limited success if often early morning and late evening....

Bubzillas medication/therapy comment wasnt directed to you, I think he was speaking of professor Spencer

Jay