Should we release ALL large female stripers?

[WinterrunRon]

Mark, Jerry, Darian and others,

Thanks for your points of views and contributing to this thread.

Mike,

Lots of great info. More than I cared to know if I’m being honest. But then again, I stated originally that this seemingly simple question is very complex to analyze and many variables have to be taken into consideration.

For me, your comment, “The truth is that we as anglers should not have to deal with these issues” is my quagmire. We are having to deal with it, we have choices to make, and I want to feel/know that I’m doing the “right” thing for the fishery I most support (I support them all, just some more than others) by releasing a few of these big stripers I catch once in a while (two a year perhaps).

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I want to harm the striper fishery at the expense of steelhead, but I’d like to know that I’m not harming the steelhead and unnecessarily protecting a striper fishery that doesn’t need this level of support.

This statement is confusing to me:

“What this implies is (aside from the tributary rivers) smolts do not occupy water that striped bass use for feeding during the passage through the delta with the exception of their entrainment at Clifton Court along with all the other fish.”

How is this possible if steelhead migrate to and from the same sea via the same Delta? Where is the water that striped bass use for feeding that smolt don’t occupy?
It’s my experience stripers feed where stripers are. My experience is you can catch them everywhere using just about anything. It’s my experience that striper I’ve landed and kept for dinner contain recently eaten smolt. So I’m really not getting where you’re coming from. Please help me to understand.

One other point, while I have the floor, to no one in particular and everyone that cares to comment; I’m not suggesting the big female stripers are single handedly responsible for consuming the steelhead smolt at levels that would alter the smolt population. My concern is more with the number of under 10 lbs smolt-eating stripers she makes, i.e., Mike’s comment “The biggest predator of the smolts are stripers under 10 lbs...That ought to help ones conscience as they release those big females!!” Which is back to my original point! Those 10 pounders came from somewhere!

Three additional points I want to make from personal observation:

1.I’ve never been over a school of thousands of steelhead a ½ mile long.
2.I’m not aware of a body of water associated with the delta that a striper doesn’t occupy as long as they have access to it.
3.I’ve caught striper in every month of the year.

The same cannot be said for steelhead.

[Darian]

Interesting points, Ron.... I find I can't disagree with all of them and shouldn't try to speak for Mike but maybe the comment about smolts not occupying the same water as Stripers during feeding is (as it sounds) nothing more than a timing issue.

IMHO, catching Stripers in the delta during every month of the year doesn't necessarily indicate they're there in numbers.... I certainly agree that Stripers occupy all of the available water where food is available and some have been thought to've become resident fish in places like the American River. However, to my knowledge, this isn't a recent event. I'm not absolutely sure but suspect that their presence hasn't contributed a noticeable decline in the population of Salmonids in the American.

Just as in the delta, Stripers in rivers are opportunistic feeders. In the American, they are able to target Salmonids, other Stripers, Black Bass, sunnies, Crawfish, Shad, acquatic worms, Squawfish/Sucker Minnows and Lamprey, to name some of the food available. I'd be willing to bet that they target a particular species over another because that species is available at the moment.

Just thinking out loud here, but, before the flooding on the Yuba River, last spring, that river was filled with resident and anadromus fish of both species (Stripers in the lower section). Striper predation didn't appear to affect the Salmonid population up there and there is no hatchery on the Yuba. on the other hand, the flooding appears to have had a negative impact on the available food for Salmonids and fishing for Salmon/Trout hasn't been as good this year.

As you've pointed out, this discussion is about choices and yours is a difficult personal choice as it will, if adopted by others, contribute to the further degradation of the viability of Stripers. Not an easy choice for you, given what you've written here. You have my respect for asking.

[Terry Thomas]

This past weekend Bill and I attended Sugar Barge's second Bass Seminar. It was a great event with presentations by Doug Loval, Dan Blantan, and Kevin Doran. I bring this up because of Doug's presentation on the current health of the striped bass fishery. We all know that the striped bass population has dropped in the past few years. Doug's graphs illustrated just how serious a situation we have. In answering Ron's question,( "Should we release large striped bass?) I believe the answer is YES! There are two important reasons for releasing these, and perhaps all stripers. First, females in the 40 lb. range may have as many as 4 million eggs. I believe that was Doug's stats...correct me if I am incorrect. Small spawing females may only have 200,000. The larger spawing female eggs are also larger in size. These larger sized eggs have a higher rate of survival and we have not even discussed the genetic factor of large fish. So, in my opion, yes, we should release these fish and push for a slot limit for striped bass. Doug's suggestion is a slot limit of 17-30 inches. All fish above and below those numbers should be released. I would like to hear comments from the "group."

[Mike McKenzie]

Test?? You're sure makin' me wrack my poor ol' brain!
OK here I go..first in answer to you statement quoted here:

" For me, your comment, “The truth is that we as anglers should not have to deal with these issues” is my quagmire."

The point I was trying to make with that statement is that if our elected leaders and the bureaucratic lackeys that serve them would actually live up to their obligations, required by the law of the land, the California State Constitution and a directive of the California Supreme Court, to protect the public trust resources, (Our waterways, rivers and streams and their fisheries, among other things) we probably would not have a dying delta and disappearing fisheries. In a healthy eco-system we would not have to deal with the issue of whether or not to release a fish or kill it out of concern for the effect it would have on another fishery, therefore no ethical dilemma.
We have the problems we have with our fisheries because politicians don't operate on "ethics" they operate on "money" period.

As for the implication that the "smolts do not occupy water that striped bass use for feeding during the passage through the delta" suggested by not finding smolts in delta striped bass..I don't think anyone can really explain how that happens..It could be as Darian states, "a timing issue" or it may be that other prey (stripers, threadfin shad, etc.) are easier to find than the smolts. (Until they get trapped in Clifton Court)
There is a new study that has just started (I think Matt Johnson mentioned it above) wherein they are tagging smolts with coded tags and placing receivers on all the bridge supports so they can track the smolts as they make their trip to the ocean. This study may provide the answer to the question about predation or lack of, in the delta proper.
With all the complexities involved with the striped bass, steelhead and salmon, their relationships as each travels the delta is far too difficult to figure by us amateurs here on a bulletin board and as I said originally, when numbers of a particular species get too low any predation is of a concern so we all have to make decisions on what we do and no one is "right or wrong"! Except those that caused the problems in the first place!
Our declining fisheries are the result of so many influences that it's hard to nail down all the reasons.. The question was brought up about the declining striper fishery on the Umpqua River, it could be tied to the decline here too. There is some thought that El Niño/La Niña with the associated upwelling currents and/or the lack of and their effect on baitfish along the coast may have something to do with the declines...

Mike

[WinterrunRon]

Well, this exercise has been interesting. Can’t say that I really disagree with anyone’s view, yet I’m no further in my search for the answer to my original question. But I do appreciate all who cared to comment.

For the record, I will continue to release all large stripers (assuming I can catch one!) unless there is evidence that this practice is directly or indirectly responsible for an elevated depletion of steelhead smolt or becomes a regulation, and I encourage everyone else to do the same.

I believe we should give every species a fighting chance and let natural selection play its role to the extent it can.

In response to Terry's question, I would not be opposed to the idea of a slot limit.

[lee s.]

We did a bit of time with Rich Henry of Brookings Ore. awhile back and the stripers of Coos Bay came up. It was his thoughts that the decline of those fish was directly due to harvesting the big female spawners.
Now I know he ain't no scientist, but words of a guide of his caliber packs plenty of sand as far as we're concerned.
Oh yeah. A dinner fish for us is between 22"-28".
.....lee s.

[OceanSunfish]

All good points so far and I enjoy reading everyone's philosophies and thoughts.

Do I think releasing a big hen striper threatens steelhead? Big picture, no. All the historic man made 'messes' that forever changed the rivers put the real cap on the steelhead fishery. The habitat has been reduced to a fraction of what it once was.

Regardless, for me, it's about "IF".

IF our central valley rivers were just as they were prior to reckless strip mining practices, dams, and water diversion, then I would cherish the fishery to be steelhead. We would have the natural habitat to sustain a healthy wild fishery.

However, the central valley rivers are not what they were and are not going to be riverted back. The habitat is not able to sustain a 'historic' steelhead fishery anymore. Hence, what remains today is by virtue of the hatchery programs.

Please note that I do not place salmon in the same 'boat' as steelhead under our current situation. For example, salmon, IMO, is a "put and take" fishery with heavy political/commercial influences. Hatcheries will produce and release what ever it takes to 'feed' the ocean harvest (where the true value is) and assure a return for hatchery breeding.

Recreationally (vs. historically) I favor striped bass. They can be fished so many different ways by so many more people over so many more miles of fishable waterway, 24/7, 365 days a year. Their value to the recrational angling economy is HUGE. If you have any doubts, just take a 'sunday drive' from Martin's Beach upriver to Colusa this weekend and see how many people are fishing for striped bass from shore and from all kinds of watercraft. I realize this could be contrued as selfish, but this state's population is going to grow by 20 to 25 million over the next two decades. So, I am being a realist when it comes to recognizing what may serve as a better sport fish for the 'masses'. i.e.; freshwater impoundments, bay, delta, canals, rivers, etc.

[Darian]

You touch on a very important piece of the puzzle; the population explosion in coastal states (east/west). The ppoulation of this state is expected to continually expand thru the foreseeable future. Demands for housing/transportation and food will become even more intense as time goes by....

Given the impact of man made and/or natural changes, I think it likely that Salmonids (other than farm/pen raised) will remain in constant decline until they become extinct. Sorry for the bleak assessment. IMHO, No politico or level of government has the stomach or Huevos to stand up and make substantive changes as they are all more concerned with their unfettered continuance/existance. Even without that Albatross, natural changes may cause their demise, anyway. As was pointed out earlier in this topic, the ocean environment is in trouble, too. It's a double whammy for Salmonids.

Ultimately, the same fate may overtake Stripers, Shad and all but the heartiest warmwater species. Get ready for Peacock Bass N' Lectric Eels in what's left of the delta.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Yes

[JerryInLodi]

Wait, there is good news! California actually lost population last year. And that even includes taking illegal border crossings into consideration. Let's keep it up folks!