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Thread: Should we release ALL large female stripers?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Default Here's a long winded response to some of the above..

    Response to WinterrunRon, JerryInLodi and slimfishing‘s comments

    First, the 1966 striped bass study by Don Stevens et al is still very relevant as well as the 1995 study of Clifton Court predation.

    To clarify what I said about delta stripers…First lets look at the state and federal fish screening facilities…This is a good web site to see what they’re all about:
    http://science.calwater.ca.gov/pdf/w...yes_052805.pdf

    You will note that the major difference is that the federal pumps take water directly from Old River while the state pumps from Clifton Court Forebay. The flow from Old River through the forebay is controlled by gates in the S/E corner. The fish salvage screens are between the forebay and the pumps not the forebay and river. A better fish trapping/killing system couldn’t be built if that was what you were trying to accomplish.

    The way it operates is, as water is pumped from the forebay levels drop to a predetermined point. They then open the gates to Old River (generally during the highest tide cycle of the period) When the gates are opened a wall of water 4-6’ high or higher floods into the forebay and sucks every swimming critter in the south delta into the forebay. This includes adult striped bass, largemouth bass and other predatory fish as well as salmonid smolts (at the right time of the year) delta smelt, also millions of eggs and fry and who knows what all. Once the flow stops the gates are closed till the next cycle. Once entrained in the system the adult fish are there for the rest of their fat lives and a fat life it is, with fresh food delivered to their waiting mouths with every pumping cycle. The fish that leave the forebay are either eaten or removed through the “salvage process” (which is a whole other topic and a process that sorely needs a good fix!!)

    The above pumping process is what I was referring to when I was talking about striped bass stomach samples. Inside the forebay where trapped predatory fish eat whatever comes along, courtesy of the opening of the gates to the forebay, is the only place in the delta where stomach sampling has shown smolts being eaten.

    I have been on DFG boats fishing and catching striped bass around man made structures all around the delta (outside of the forebay) so the DFG biologists can pump their stomachs to identify what they’ve been eating ( taking remains back to the lab if to far along in the digestive process) and never saw any smolts nor has any ever been recorded in DELTA striper stomach studies, again outside of Clifton Court Forebay!

    What this implies is (aside from the tributary rivers) smolts do not occupy water that striped bass use for feeding during the passage through the delta with the exception of their entrainment at Clifton Court along with all the other fish. My point was that there is no documented evidence of “natural “ smolt predation by striped bass in the delta proper.

    For JerryInLodi and slimfishing’s comments, While the alluded to 5-7% predation of wild smolts by striped bass (in the rivers) is well within the norm and wouldn’t be a concern if we had a healthy system, as I said in my previous post, most of the studies that show striped bass predation of smolts is associated with hatchery releasing and the inane methods used in that process.
    As a member of DFG’s Striped Bass Stamp Fund Advisory Committee I have approached DFG about affecting some changes in their release process. I haven’t made much progress in that effort however, due to the fact that there has only been one meeting of the Committee in the last year and a half. It seems like DFG is trying to ignore striped bass and probably has their eyes on “our” (anglers) 3.7 million dollars in the stamp’s dedicated fund. In December the Committee requested a sit down meeting with the Director of DFG which has been ignored up to this point. Which may or not be an indication of the Department’s “new” attitude with respect to striped bass. (ignore them and maybe they’ll go away??!!)

    Someone above mentioned the value of the striped bass fishery to the state’s economy.. One other bit of “unfinished business” of the Striped Bass Fund Committee is that we commissioned an update of the 1986 study of the economic value of the three (striped bass, salmon and steelhead ) main anadromous fisheries in the Sac/San Joaquin River system. In 1986 this study showed the value of the fisheries was a little over 2 billion dollars….It gives me pause to wonder how the DFG can let our fisheries decline to the point they have considering the UNSUBSIDIZED value to our economy!!! ( as compared to Corporate Ag water diversions and the subsidized crops they raise !)

    I did see that the “new” stamp committee (Bay Delta Sportfishing Enhancement Stamp) has allocated 50 thousand dollars for “acclimation pen for hatchery smolts which means someone is carrying on with my idea on that committee..A good thing!

    The net pen acclimation of hatchery smolts would go a long way to solving “predation” problems with salmonid smolts and the associated slaughter of striped bass at the release points . Instead of dumping the smolts into the mouths of waiting predatory fish as is now done, the smolts would be placed in net pens to become acclimated to the new environment, then be drizzled out of the net pens as they get towed along. This, as opposed to just dumping fish that are somewhat in shock from the experience and thus ready prey at the smörgåsbord!

    There seems to be no reason not to implement this system other than overcoming bureaucratic inertia which is a very difficult process!

    Mike

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    North Valley
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    Default

    Mike M: thank you for the insight and information you have contributed to this thread! I really enjoy reading your posts and appreciate the hard work you do for our striper fishery!

    Jerry: you might want to try and contact the Moke. River hatchery manager and ask him why they dump the fish at New Hope. I am sure he would be happy to discuss it with you or direct you to someone who would. This is speculation on my part, but the decision to persist with New Hope may be driven by the research involved with coded wire tag studies to see how smolts travel through the delta. I know that researchers like consistency! As an aside, starting this year (2006 brood year), 25% of all hatchery salmon in California will be marked with an adipose fin clip and will recieve a coded wire tag before release. This will allow managers to fairly accurately know the contribution of wild vs. hatchery fish to adult escapement and should also lead to improvements to hatchery practices . Right now nobody knows how many wild salmon are in the Central Valley (Fall Run especially) or how effective our hatchery programs are. Matt.

  3. #13
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    Jan 2005
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    Default

    Say hey Mike,
    Big time thanks for the information you provide. Very cogent presentation with support links to more detailed data. I appreciate your personal efforts for the Delta fishery and beyond. Much respect.......
    Cheers, Ken
    Love the challenge...What try? No try. Just do!

  4. #14
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    Jan 2005
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    Sacramento
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    Default Striper Funding....

    In this session of the legislature, AB 1270 proposes to dedicate a portion of monies, 25% of the unspent funds in the account, received from the Bay-Delta Sport Fishing Enhancement Stamp "for the replenishment of bay striped bass and sturgeon." On the surface, this bill sounds good. But is not guaranteed funding as it requires the agency to leave some amount in the fund unspent at the end of a fiscal year to be used for Striper/Sturgeon replenishment. Not something normally done in state agencies.

    On the other hand, if we all let the author know that we're watching and would like to have the proposed amount be taken from the fund before it is exhausted, we might be able to gain guaranteed funding. That's what I'll be doing, shortly.

    Answering the original question requires we make a choice about whether Striped Bass are as important as Salmon/Steelhead. Forgive me for stating the obvious, but, that makes the choice a completely ethical/philisophical one and, since the choice is to be made about stripers (not steelhead/Salmon) it assigns a lesser value to Stripers before receiving any input (....as Ron said in his opening, Steelhead are his favorite). This is, indeed, a choice to be made about the life or death of a particular species in order that another survive....

    IMHO, that's not a choice to be made lightly. Nor is it one that should be made without a full anaylsis; taking into consideration all economical and/or environmental impacts involved. Including whether elimination of Salmonid predators would change anything in their current downward spiral.

    I'm not convinced that (if we could gain control of other factors) we can't have healthy fisheries for all anadromous species.
    "America is a country which produces citizens who will cross the ocean to fight for democracy but won't cross the street to vote."

    Author unknown

  5. #15
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    Apr 2005
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    Calveras County
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    Default AB 1270...??

    Darian,

    Good comments about "choices".. as with all of "Mans" efforts at monkeyin' with moving species around where they don't belong.."if we knew then what we know now" keeps coming to mind. Back then the "ethical" choice would have been to leave things alone.

    Actually Ron's question leads us to the dismal truth about our declining fisheries and how we got here. The truth is that we as anglers should not be having to deal with these issues. If it were not for a complete lack of ethics in the political arena our fisheries would not have been sacrificed on the alter of Corporate AG and Developer greed. IMHO!

    With respect to AB 1270, I'm not too sure about that bill. It seems to me to be nothing more than some kind of "feel good measure" or a money grab for Sturgeon. Given the current political state of fishery issues, where the striped bass is looked on as the "evil doer" because of perceived predation issues and the fact that its a non-native species, there is no way that NOAA/NMFS and U S Fish and Wildlife will let anything be done to "enhance" striped bass populations until all the issues around the ESA listed species are dealt with and they become delisted. It won't matter how many laws get passed. Again, MHO.

    Mike

  6. #16
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    Sep 2005
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    Southern Oregon
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    Default

    This is a some what unrelated post but it does have something to do with a declining Striper population. The Umpqua drainage in Oregon has a Striper population that has been in decline for a long time. The Umpqua doesn't have all the problems with water exports dams ect. that the Sacramento has, so it makes me wonder why the fish are in decline. There is a 2 fish over 30" limit and I seldom hear of anyone fishing for them. This state is steelhead/ salmon oriented and most fishermen I have talked to aren't interested in them at all. I know at one time it was a great fishery and I think the fly caught record was from the Umpqua system, so what is happening to them? Perhaps the decline is because only the big spawners are kept.

    Mark

  7. #17
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    Default Oregon Stripers....

    Hmmm,.... Maybe they're still there but nobody cares. Historically, Stripers were caught in the Winchester (Umpqua River) and in Coos Bays. Altho, I haven't heard much about those areas, recently, incidental catches of Stripers in the surf are reported in the newspapers up there.
    "America is a country which produces citizens who will cross the ocean to fight for democracy but won't cross the street to vote."

    Author unknown

  8. #18
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    Southern Oregon
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    Default

    Darian
    I have never fished for them in the Umpqua myself, but have I talked to many who have in the past, when the fishing was good. Everyone I have talked to say the fishing is now at night and not worth the effort. A family friend who grew up on a Dairy Farm on tributary of the river said the stripers were thick when she was a child but not any more. Maybe striper fishing is a well kept secret there, who knows.


    Mark

  9. #19
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    May 2006
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    Lodi, San Joaquin Delta
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    Default

    Mark and Darian, the whole idea of the Oregon decline is rather unsettling. It implies that there may be a number of factors in the delta decline that have not even been discovered, much less studied.

    We know that the entire offshore system has been damaged. Maybe the striper is like the canary in the mine pointing to the overharvesting that is impacting our coastal waters.
    Capt. JerryInLodi
    www.DeltaStripers.Com

  10. #20
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    Default Oregon Stripers....

    The legendary Joe Brooks described catching a (what was then a world record) Striper on a fly from the rip-rap area near the airport in Coos Bay. Later, the word record for fly caught Stripers was set in the Umpqua by an Oregonian. As I recall, that fish exceeded 70 pounds (it was reported in Field & Stream Magazine).

    The collapse of the Oregon Striper fishery happened relatively quickly and is indicative of what is posible thru inattention to the problem. As was stated earlier, Oregon is oriented towards Salmonids and their Fish & Game people probably took continued existence of Stripers for granted. When the collapse occured, there was little, if any, effort to restore them to historic levels.

    The danger for Stripers in California is that they could suffer from the same malais if we aren't careful/vigilante.
    "America is a country which produces citizens who will cross the ocean to fight for democracy but won't cross the street to vote."

    Author unknown

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