Should you be able to fish for downstreamers ?

[WinterrunRon]

Lots of great input fellas. But here's what I know:

All things being equal, if I hook 2 fish with a barbless hook today, land and release 2 fish back into the water (not bleeding profusely from the barbed hook I wrangled from it's mouth with my pliers), there are 2 more fish swimming in the river than had I kept and killed them. And get this (here's the real genious of my line of thought):

There are 2 more fish available for ANYONE to catch again tomorrow!

Barbless hooks and catch and release. Just do it (at least most of the time)! Your children, and everyone elses, will thank you!

I know I will.

[Covelo]

Going out of the box since this horse won't die. If you really want to improve the status of fisheries in Calif, lobby the legislature to change the director of the fish and game to a merit position instead of a political appointee of the govenor. That would lead to policy changes supported by science that would have a real impact and insure that your children, and everyone elses, will be able to fish for steelhead in the future and get to C&R or keep them if they so choose.

[Ed Wahl]

A dead horse can't spawn either .

[lee s.]

[WinterrunRon]

Carl,

I don't know if horses take flys, but Covelo seems hell bent on killing one if they do because he just can't get one to die! From the sound of it, he's looking for them outside the box. Where is this box? I want to try fishing for horses with a fly. What weight rod would you suggest?

[Darian]

Covelo,.... While I believe you are correct about political appointees vs permanent or merit position, my feeling is that H__L will freeze over before that happens. Nor do I believe that developmentwater interests in this state would ever allow a director to have the additional power of independence and knowledge by creating that position. I recall the same type of laments from the 50's, 60's, 70's, ad nauseum....

Reality appears to be that anything that would threaten or thru perception, threaten development/water interests will not be pursued or be allowed to prevail by federal/state/local politico's....(just my .02)

[Covelo]

Darian -- I agree. And as long as fishermen are caught up in largely irrelevant save the run one fish at a time concepts, nothing will change.

On a forum like this, contributors like ycflyfisher are what really elevate the discussion past what did you catch and not kill yesterday. This guy has spent his life studying fish populations, ie a true expert. He does not bring speculative thoughts, but real data from tested hypotheses. When it is his personal opinion he lets you know, but certainly it is based on a whole lot more than his fishing experiences. It would be a shame to lose someone at his level and he has obviously already considered no longer responding on this forum due to the disrespectful response he received.

[Darian]

I certainly concur that loss of ycflyfishers' expertise would downgrade the level of discussions on this BB and hope that he would continue to participate. Both you/he and some others were who I was referring too when I posted, earlier, that others on this BB were knowlegdable on this subject.

As was pointed out, C & R is a "feel good", emotional issue and generates strong, if not always rational, response from a bunch of us (....who really want to feel good ). I hope that's not seen as a major "dis" of an obviously educated statement of fact(s).

Most of us have some very strongly held opinions base on personal experience/beliefs and, as you can see for yourself, are fearless in making statements about those subjects. Many times, those statements come into conflict with scientific fact(s). Nonetheless, we still hold to them until informed by a creditable source. Don't know about anyone else but I've learned a bunch about Salmonids from discussions involving input from both of you. Hopefully, that will continue....

[bigtj]

Come on you guys let's move on. Darian and YC and Covelo can go bonk their 5 wild fish a year on the Smith and feel fine about it. The rest of us will promote C&R and we can live happily ever after. Pounding away at a dead subject isn't getting anybody anywhere.

[Covelo]

Hi Carl. Maybe you should reread your own post, specifically

I don't generally pay to much attention to the over educated ones anyway, Most of those guys along with the political powers that be, are usually the reason the fish/rivers are in the sad shape anyway.

You have essentially said your education does not matter and the problems with the fishery are your fault. No disrespect there!