Should you be able to fish for downstreamers ?

[WinterrunRon]

Wow! What a thread!

I just read them all at once (first visit to this thread) and it only took me an hour!

I think it’s awesome that so many are so passionate in their view and willing to share it. All don’t have to agree… in fact, I learn more when we don’t… and it’s still all great stuff!

A couple of thoughts I feel compelled to share (guess I just couldn’t leave well enough alone!).

I used to duck and pheasant hunt a lot, every year, from the time I was a boy with my father. Then I shot a deer, only one deer in my life, while in my 20’s. Shortly after that, the passion for hunting just faded away without me really realizing it. I found myself fishing more and more until I realized, I had stopped hunting completely. It wasn’t until years later I fully understood why this conversion occurred: There is simply no such thing as hunt and release! The thrill of the kill was gone. I simply grew to dislike killing.

Oh, I still take a striper or two, just because they taste so darned good, but I still dislike the aspect of killing and the act doesn’t come easy for me. I suspect as with many others, I get a greater sense of satisfaction from watching them swim away.

I’m not posting to convert, but I am posting to support the idea that catch and release must be a good thing... it has to be. It’s virtually impossible for it to be doing harm to the survivability of a species. How is it possible to kill a healthy, viable female of anything for the good of the species (ok, we all know some women that might challenge this theory, but this is a FF BB!)?

And, instead of starting another thread, let me share here, that several years ago the Smith River regulations were modified to allow barbed-hooked fishing AND the retention of TWO steelhead instead of one (only one native, however) AND the season extended another month through April! Can anyone share any information that would convince me this decision was for the betterment of the steelhead?

I just don’t get it. Years from now, if it takes that long, then next decision that will be pondered is what should be done to restore the near extinct steelhead population on the Smith River. Geez-wiz, maybe lower the take, enact a barbless catch and release regulation and perhaps, just perhaps, shorten the season to allow a small percentage of the fish to spawn without disruption? And if those ideas are too extreme: Duck season has a split season, I’m assuming to allow the migrating birds to have a period of rest during a long open season. Why not borrow this idea and modify it to allow for the taking of fish during a PORTION of a steelhead season, say two weeks or so out of four months for those that don’t enjoy fishing unless they keep their catch. Seems to me this is a happy medium I think would find little in the way of argument.

Must we always create a crisis to manage!

I don’t get it…

[Darian]

Ron,.... Just by way of Smith River info. I'm not sure I can convince you that the decision to allow keeping Steelhead on the Smith was for the benefit of the fish but someone apparently thinks so. I do recall that many years ago, the Chamber of Commerce in Del Norte County raised some money for the Rowdy Creek Hatchery. The need for that hatchery (a private concern) was based on the decrease in returning Salmon/Steelhead.... (sound familiar)

At the time, it was felt that the loss of local revenue as a result of fisherman (commercial/recreational) going elsewhere for their catch would devastate the local economy.

In order to accomplish the needed changes, residents had to obtain approval from DFG, etc., ad nauseum. So, maybe your question has it backwards.

Let's try: must we always manage to create a crisis

[bigtj]

Darian,

Thanks for your example which exactly what is wrong when fisheries management is pushed by a political agenda. Del Norte county saw less fish return, so instead of trying to identify the root problem (overharvest via commercial nets and/or sportfishing, loss of habitat, changes in ocean conditions), they decide, "we need a hatchery", to make more fish! But the problem is, often hatcheries can result in genetically inferior fish that dilute the biodiversity and veracity of the run (I' not making this up, it's an idea that is definitely starting to become acceted as a fact). Then, 10 years from now the funding runs out for the hatchery, the wild run is compromised and depressed, and we sit around and wonder what happened. To it's credit, Rowdy Fish hatchery is a top-flight facilty and run the way hatcheries should be run. They take big steps to ensure biodiversity. Still, I would rather catch a wild Smith River steelhead than a hatchery fish 95% of the time. However, if the money were ever to run out (the hatchery has operated for 40 years on private donations) then the situation would not be very good for the fishery, at least on the short-term.

The future is here now and that is instead of blanket "let's make a hatchery to fix the problem" approach the emphasis is on watershed management as a system. Just minor changes in the way we do things (number of fish we can bonk, the way we log, the way we build roads, the way we build culverts) can and will have a huge impact on wild steelhead populations. Hatcheries will still be useful for the zoos on the Cowlitz and the Mad catch em and stack em crowd but ultimately Mother Nature do a better job than any hatchery ever has done or ever will do.

[sculpin]

I think to fix many of the problems mentioned with steelhead runs, at some point, on very crowded rivers, a method of limited entry will have to be implemented. Probably something similar to limited entry hunting in areas with to may hunters and to little game. It won't raise the money government wants but it would be the best thing for the fish. I wouldn't mind not fishing a year or two on selected rivers if the fishing is fantastic and not crowded when I did. It seems like I have heard about areas in Canada where they have a limited entry system on some rivers. This type of limited access has worked very well in hunting units, as long as the permits don't get increased to ridulous numbers by the game departments, to increase revenue. Anyhoo, it's food for thought.


Mark

[WinterrunRon]

Darian,

Good point.

I'm convinced the actions I mentioned on the Smith is for the "good" of the local economy. Keep more fish=more fishermen. What amazes me is the irrational short term thinking. Let's see, I make my living off of the fishermen, so I want more of them. Okay, here goes. I have a great idea!

Let's put a barb on the hook so IT (wait a minute, let's change that to THEY by doubling the take limit) so THEY don't get away and let's fish for them another 30 days so there's a chance to catch the last few remaining in the system. Hell, why have a season at all if the season lasts the entire migration period. Seems to me a season should be PART of a migration period, not THE migration period

In any event, how about we support the enactment of a change in regulations that would attract a larger amount of fishermen and allow for the taking of more and more fish each year that exponentially diminishes all future returns until... ooops... problem…no more fish! (Now, where’s that darn form to file bankruptcy?).

I repeat... I don't get it!

[Darian]

Ron,.... I feel your pain :\ :\ I haven't fished up there for many years.... Yet, I still feel like it's one of the most beautiful settings and the fish are such wonderfull specimens that the Smith will always occupy a special place for me. It's absolutely amazing that the fishery has survived all of the pressure it gets.... I was fortunate enough to fish it during the middle '60s (one year after the tidal wave hit Crescent City). Even then it was crowded but nothing like it is now...

Oh well. I guess change is inevetible.

[bigtj]

Mark (Sculpin),

Although controversial, I think your idea is a good one. The Nature Conservancy water on the McCloud has such a system. There are times when I'm on the Smith and I look at all the boats and just wonder, how can a fish possibly make it past this gauntlet? Maybe a lottery system would help, esp. with the # of boats launched.

[lee s.]

The Smith is a GRAND river and "catching" seems secondary in such a setting for many.
I would hope for a much shorter season OR even much more restrictive methods as tools used.
Closures seem to never get re-opened.....Lagunitas a case in piont.
Limited entry would probably to be very short lived until it became "elitist".....minimal charge would quickly escalate, as proven by abalone tags and other "incidentals".
.....lee s.

[WinterrunRon]

bigtj, If you think the Smith has a few boats on it, head a few miles North to the Chetco. It’s not uncommon for the lower river to have 40+ boats going down AND UP it every day during the peak of the season if the weather is nice. It’s a shoulder-slumping, pathetic sight.

The culprit: Motors on boats and you can keep your catch. Take the motors off the boats and make it a catch and release fishery, the killermen would vanish and the fishermen would remain. My guess; the river would free up by 40%. Is this good for the fish? Absolutely. Is this good for the local economy? Absolutely not.

I’m not so confident of a lottery system that would limit the number of people. Why this may help, I see this as more of a patch on a problem, not a solution to one. I don’t see the problem as fish not getting around boats and fishermen (they get by me just fine!). The problem, as I see it, is when they don’t… they get killed!

You could have a 1,000 boats with 1,000 fishermen landing 1,000 fish. And if it was a catch and release fishery, guess how many would be lost to being caught? Yup, zero.

BTW, I do like the Nature Conservancy stretch of water on the McCloud. It’s awesome KNOWING that you’ll run into only a handful of fishermen (I think the number is 6) and not be surprised by a crowd at the end of a six mile hike!

Darian, On the Middle Fork of the Smith upstream of Patrick’s Creek and upstream of (can’t remember the creek’s name) on the South Fork, the river is closed to fishing. IMHO, this is the ONLY reason the Smith River still has a healthy run of native fish. Allow motors and open up the entire river and the runs as we know them would be all but a memory.

And the landscape of the river hasn’t change much. I’d bet you wouldn’t notice much difference from the last time you were there 40 years ago. I agree with you, it’s continues to be one of the most beautiful steelhead rivers you’ll ever fish.

[jhaquett]

I was curious if you could tell me where the Nature Conservancy Stretch of the McCloud is? I'm only a couple hours from McCloud and a hike in fishery is always a great bet. Thanks.