Highway 20 access on the lower Yuba river.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian Clemens

Rossflyguy

You're dam right, we are fighting diligently to put ladders or something in the fishway to keep the stripers as well as shad out. My issue is they, cdfw, has no studies showing that "sturgeon" (their reasoning behind the fishway) will spawn above daguerre. They say stripers won't go above due to water temps, it's to cold and they won't feed in those temps. That data is from delta and East coast striper. Well I don't know anyone that fishes the Yuba below daguerre more than myself. That's not a toot-toot about me, but just the facts, and I catch stripers, and monsters year round. The issue with that is they aren't collecting any inriver striper data. These stripers are very adaptive to their waters. Look at those that fish for them in 48° surf temps, those fish are extremely aggressive, same for the ones on the Yuba, year round. That being said, sturgeon spawn in 57-58° water. They are saying striper won't eat in water colder than that, so they won't go above the fishway. This contradicts their entire program. It's a total bs political money grab. It will destroy one of the last anadromous fisheries in the state, the last one in the central valley and a heritage designated trout stream.

I witnessed sturgeon push up into the DPD hole then slowly work back down to as far as beer can Beach, the 2 hard dog legs below the dump and spawn down there. Not just this year, but previous years as well. This is cuz the water is too cold. I did water temps while shad fishing this year and last. Start of the season mid May, 52deg gets up to about 56 by end of May beginning of June but then the lakes turn over and we drop back down to 54 again. The high temps are typically 8deg higher, sometimes 10 depending on air temps. But you tell me starting temp at 7am and air temp, and I can predict the water temp at 3pm and be within a deg or 2, it's that predictable. Ask me if I see any cdfw biologists studying the river outside of the DPD hole ever? The answer is a big fat NO. NOT EVER. So where's the data.

Worse part, we asked to have them truck some sturgeon above the dam and track them to see what happens. They said they don't want to harm them by trucking them 100yrs tops from below to above as they are fragile. But they will truck tens of millions of smolting salmon out to the bay each and every year in tankers. More political bs.

I can be here all day, debunking each and everything they say as it's a very long list. But those are the facts.

This is why Amoeba's comment was so aggravating, 1 there's no need for that type of verbiage and aggression on this page and 2 he really has no idea what we are doing behind closed doors. We have stockholders doing everything we can to save the Yuba. His comments are pretty much crapping on what we are trying to do.

So that's all of it in a nutshell.
Sorry if any grammar errors. Lots to do today.

---

Brian,
you stated “political money grab BS” , “more political BS”.

Which politician(s) benefit from a fishway that allows sturgeon (and stripers) upriver ? HOW does it benefit them ?
Who benefits $$$wise from this project (of course contractors, but who else) ? Thanks

Agree this is a dumb project. Thanks for your efforts!

Pete

The organizations that are part of it and being funded, and then you know who. Let me put it out like this, 40 miles of river on the trinity from the north fork to lewiston has been restored to the sum of 500 million dollars since 2001, around 45 projects or so. I can get exact details if needed.

This project is only 1 project, no river miles, not 24yrs to make and its 100 million dollars. 30million from CDFW, 70million from Yuba County water, who really doesn't have that kinda money. The money doesn't add up. They aren't moving mountains, they aren't removing dams, they aren't rerouting the river, they are making a wanna be "side channel" that won't be worth 100 million, let alone that after the first big flood.

Worse yet, one of the gentleman that's been on the forefront of the restoration efforts on the Yuba, I'll keep his name out of this reply, did not, i repeat DID NOT sign off on this fishway.

This should tell you something.

You look at this as a positive for the sturgeon salmon steelhead and trout, yes, but there's absolutely no prevention keeping out stripers and shad and they will, without a shadow of a doubt make their way into this fishway and above Daguerre Point Dam. Only thing stopping them since 1910 is Daguerre Point Dam. That will happen and kiss the Yuba, the last wild/native anadromous river in the central valley, one of the last in the state and a designated heritage trout water goodbye.

If there's even a slight possibility of invasive predators like stripers and shad getting above daguerre, this plan should be put on hold until something better can be drawn up.

Won't even get into the actual design of the fishway. Let's just say, knowing how that river moves and flows in that lower section above daguerre, it will fill in after the first big high water and kiss that 100million goodbye.

Still waiting for any type of studies to back up cdfws statements, which they have none. And might I add, someone decided to "auto-pen" the nepa cesa and ceqa paperwork

It’s gonna end up like the $25 billion to homelessness. It’ll get worse after the money disappears. The current politicians “benefit” cause they are doing something “good” for the environment. Has Cal Trout or Trout Unlimited made a statement about this?

Yes Rossflyguy we have all of them on board. MIKEY WIER has been a huge help.

Alot of foot-in-mouth disease here:

This thread is about the installation of a gate on a public road, blocking a legal access along the highway 20 easement on the North side of the Yuba River. When I reported it to various agencies for corrective action, I got a bunch of bullshit answers, or no response whatsoever, and no action from the Yuba County Sheriff, Yuba County Board of Supervisors, California Department of Fish and Wildlife, some confirmation (but no action) from the State Lands Commission and Bureau of Land Management; in writing. Each agency got at least two inquiries, usually three. It isn't private land that this gate is on. By "bullshit", I mean hearsay there were meetings, but there are no meeting notes, no records of anything on any agenda. Just slap that gate in and put up a private property sign on a public road. Then make shit up that there was a decision when there wasn't.

Now, whoever this "Yuba Anglers" skitch is that's selling access to pass an illegal gate on a public road, you ain't selling it to me. Your selling it to guides, who hawk it to clients, that this major tributary, and navigable waters, is "private". It isn't. Never was. Isn't now. You guides who bought these access rights to pass that gate are supporting illegal activity. I will not do business with you. I encourage anyone else who reads this thread not to do business with you. You aren't helping the situation. You are making it worse for everyone except yourselves.

So to Herr Clemens or anyone else who wants to hijack this thread, start at the beginning please. But now that you mentioned it, everything you say about sturgeon passage and the need for separating stripers is absolutely false; the Daguerre passage project is a fantastic, well researched project precisely as it is currently designed, which includes effectiveness over a huge range of flows. Although CDFW (and the State generally) has been woefully remiss in it's protection of angler access, they do much better when it comes to basic science. That's because they know; you obviously don't; and they know better than to listen to your gibberish. It's like average Joe telling the Corps of Engineers how to make flood control design decisions on the American River. After publication of final environmental documents, all public disclosures and meetings, plans and specs, bids and contract award. Just look outside they don't like what they see from the bike trail and whine like babies. None of them know squat either. And so on it goes. Jeezus. No good....errr....make that GREAT project goes unpunished these days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amoeba

Alot of foot-in-mouth disease here:

This thread is about the installation of a gate on a public road, blocking a legal access along the highway 20 easement on the North side of the Yuba River. When I reported it to various agencies for corrective action, I got a bunch of bullshit answers, or no response whatsoever, and no action from the Yuba County Sheriff, Yuba County Board of Supervisors, California Department of Fish and Wildlife, some confirmation (but no action) from the State Lands Commission and Bureau of Land Management; in writing. Each agency got at least two inquiries, usually three. It isn't private land that this gate is on. By "bullshit", I mean hearsay there were meetings, but there are no meeting notes, no records of anything on any agenda. Just slap that gate in and put up a private property sign on a public road. Then make shit up that there was a decision when there wasn't.

Now, whoever this "Yuba Anglers" skitch is that's selling access to pass an illegal gate on a public road, you ain't selling it to me. Your selling it to guides, who hawk it to clients, that this major tributary, and navigable waters, is "private". It isn't. Never was. Isn't now. You guides who bought these access rights to pass that gate are supporting illegal activity. I will not do business with you. I encourage anyone else who reads this thread not to do business with you. You aren't helping the situation. You are making it worse for everyone except yourselves.

So to Herr Clemens or anyone else who wants to hijack this thread, start at the beginning please. But now that you mentioned it, everything you say about sturgeon passage and the need for separating stripers is absolutely false; the Daguerre passage project is a fantastic, well researched project precisely as it is currently designed, which includes effectiveness over a huge range of flows. Although CDFW (and the State generally) has been woefully remiss in it's protection of angler access, they do much better when it comes to basic science. That's because they know; you obviously don't; and they know better than to listen to your gibberish. It's like average Joe telling the Corps of Engineers how to make flood control design decisions on the American River. After publication of final environmental documents, all public disclosures and meetings, plans and specs, bids and contract award. Just look outside they don't like what they see from the bike trail and whine like babies. None of them know squat either. And so on it goes. Jeezus. No good....errr....make that GREAT project goes unpunished these days.

---

Yea, CDFW does “great” with basic science. Tell me again about the projected salmon numbers prior to the 3 salmon season closures these experts scientists came up with? The ban on hunting practices that exploded black bear and mt lion numbers. The halibut take reduction per person that was voiced by anglers and captains not CDFW. Before you start criticizing people who questions the decisions of a local government agency you should think before you speak. We have every right to question our local government since they use our tax dollars to fund their decisions. Especially the poor decisions of California government.

God dammit, what a stupid post: try to keep people on the ball (illegal gate blocking Pubic access on the N side of Yuba River at HWY 20), and some dipstick comes up with projected salmon season, exploded bear/mtn lion numbers, and attributes halibut take reduction to anglers/captains, not CDFW. Has nothing to do with N side access on the Yuba River. And all horse shit. There are pre-season empirical data on salmon before the quotas are decided, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that bear/lion numbers have "exploded" (not that the estimates have ever been accurate), and it WAS CDFW (and NOAA) that properly reduced halibut bag limit in anticipation of increased pressure as a result of salmon season closure. You should be thanking CDFW/NOAA for not listening to your ignorance. Notably, none of this has anything to do with this thread prior. You sure as hell have a right to "question" (some, not all, and probably not these particular) regulation changes. But these guides acting as if they know something more when they don't; or did something beneficial when they didn't; or support resources more just because they think they fish more than someone on foot; ain't so. It may be true that you can pound the living shit out of a resource by rowing back and forth over it a thousand times a month; but that doesn't make you an authority on fish conservation equivalent to a State/Federal Agency with hundreds of years of staff experience.

I criticize everyone and anyone who pays money to Yuba Anglers, every guide who pays Yuba Anglers, and every client who pays any guide who pays Yuba Anglers. Whoever slapped up a gate blocking a legal Public access to anglers who have used the HWY 20 easement there for decades, lets Yuba Anglers through (if it wasn't Yuba Anglers in the first place) so they can enhance their guiding marketing and prevent others from doing so. Not fair, not legal, and no one is helping. If you want to fight anything, fight that, not me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amoeba

God dammit, what a stupid post: try to keep people on the ball (illegal gate blocking Pubic access on the N side of Yuba River at HWY 20), and some dipstick comes up with projected salmon season, exploded bear/mtn lion numbers, and attributes halibut take reduction to anglers/captains, not CDFW. Has nothing to do with N side access on the Yuba River. And all horse shit. There are pre-season empirical data on salmon before the quotas are decided, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that bear/lion numbers have "exploded" (not that the estimates have ever been accurate), and it WAS CDFW (and NOAA) that properly reduced halibut bag limit in anticipation of increased pressure as a result of salmon season closure. You should be thanking CDFW/NOAA for not listening to your ignorance. Notably, none of this has anything to do with this thread prior. You sure as hell have a right to "question" (some, not all, and probably not these particular) regulation changes. But these guides acting as if they know something more when they don't; or did something beneficial when they didn't; or support resources more just because they think they fish more than someone on foot; ain't so. It may be true that you can pound the living shit out of a resource by rowing back and forth over it a thousand times a month; but that doesn't make you an authority on fish conservation equivalent to a State/Federal Agency with hundreds of years of staff experience.

I criticize everyone and anyone who pays money to Yuba Anglers, every guide who pays Yuba Anglers, and every client who pays any guide who pays Yuba Anglers. Whoever slapped up a gate blocking a legal Public access to anglers who have used the HWY 20 easement there for decades, lets Yuba Anglers through (if it wasn't Yuba Anglers in the first place) so they can enhance their guiding marketing and prevent others from doing so. Not fair, not legal, and no one is helping. If you want to fight anything, fight that, not me.

---

For someone with this amount of arrogance and disrespect you lack actual knowledge of anything you’ve said. But you just keep doing you guy. Have a nice day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amoeba

God dammit, what a stupid post: try to keep people on the ball (illegal gate blocking Pubic access on the N side of Yuba River at HWY 20), and some dipstick comes up with projected salmon season, exploded bear/mtn lion numbers, and attributes halibut take reduction to anglers/captains, not CDFW. Has nothing to do with N side access on the Yuba River. And all horse shit. There are pre-season empirical data on salmon before the quotas are decided, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that bear/lion numbers have "exploded" (not that the estimates have ever been accurate), and it WAS CDFW (and NOAA) that properly reduced halibut bag limit in anticipation of increased pressure as a result of salmon season closure. You should be thanking CDFW/NOAA for not listening to your ignorance. Notably, none of this has anything to do with this thread prior. You sure as hell have a right to "question" (some, not all, and probably not these particular) regulation changes. But these guides acting as if they know something more when they don't; or did something beneficial when they didn't; or support resources more just because they think they fish more than someone on foot; ain't so. It may be true that you can pound the living shit out of a resource by rowing back and forth over it a thousand times a month; but that doesn't make you an authority on fish conservation equivalent to a State/Federal Agency with hundreds of years of staff experience.

I criticize everyone and anyone who pays money to Yuba Anglers, every guide who pays Yuba Anglers, and every client who pays any guide who pays Yuba Anglers. Whoever slapped up a gate blocking a legal Public access to anglers who have used the HWY 20 easement there for decades, lets Yuba Anglers through (if it wasn't Yuba Anglers in the first place) so they can enhance their guiding marketing and prevent others from doing so. Not fair, not legal, and no one is helping. If you want to fight anything, fight that, not me.

---

Great post Amoeba. Pretty much nailed it.

It works great......for the fishing guides or someone with a boat and a membership to launch. it was easy to get rid of all the anglers taking every hole all the way to Daguerre dam.