legality of selling pike?

[steve sullivan]

I was just reading a old magazine about pike in yellowstone Lake encouraging anglers to eat Pike, and it even gave recipes. I thought we should , or at least the DFG should, and allow, no, encourage restaurants to be able to buy fresh pike from local fisherman in the yellowstone and Lake Davis area. Or have they done this already? Encourage the commercialiazation of Pike and it will decrease quickly.

[Mike O]

Or some bright soul in one of those relatively low-income areas would increase the fishery by planting other lakes, because hey more fish equals more money, right?

[Jgoding]

I think maodiver hit the nail right on the head. If you commercialize something then you bring in the human "greed" factor... On the flip side.. why they do not have pike derby's in the waters in question is beyond me.... catch and keep.... might help some...

Jeff

[lee s.]

"Catch and keep might help" ? Yeah right! Like the rest of the "fishermen are the cause" ideaology that "the powers that be" are unfortunately obviously selling us. They cannot poison them out, and you expect us to impact them in any way with a stick and a string. Again...yeah right. :wink:
....lee s.

[Darian]

I suppose it's heresy, but I don't really think DFG has the capability to eliminate Pike in Lake Davis (especially after the last fiasco). :( :( Even if they could, Pike will likely be illegally stocked again in Davis or elsewhere. The policy of prevention hasn't worked.

Years ago, Pike were illegally stocked in Frenchman's and eliminated but turned up in Davis, later. :roll: Since the instigator(s) have not been caught (....and, apparently, never will be), it's likely they'll continue this activity. Pike are here. So, why not leave Pike in Lake Davis and allow all the fish in that lake to adapt and live. :?: :?:

If there ever was a waste of DFG funding it's the eradication program for Davis lake. DFG will preside over the collapse of the delta fisheries while tilting at windmills at Davis Lake. I vote for saving the delta, first. 8) 8)

Pass the Pike filets.... MMM, MMM.... Great with a beer.... :D :D

[Ed Wahl]

They just don't belong there. What DFG found the last time were starving, stunted Pike and a depleted trout population. You would also have to introduce some forage fish, or just keep feeding them more and more trout. The problem with eating the pike from Davis is the Pike have to get pretty big before you can work around the bones. In northern Il. where I lived you didn't keep them unless they were at least 3 feet long. To hard to eat otherwise. I think Lake Davis for Pike would be a good idea for a fishout. Some big Zonkers, Clousers, Daredevils( I am from the midwest), should work. Has anyone gone up there just for Pike?

[crashq]

I suppose it's heresy, but I don't really think DFG has the capability to eliminate Pike in Lake Davis (especially after the last fiasco). :( :( Even if they could, Pike will likely be illegally stocked again in Davis or elsewhere. The policy of prevention hasn't worked.


The DFG does have the capability to eliminate Pike, they just didn't have the political power to do it the first time. Last time, they proposed draining the lake down to 20-30% of capacity so the rotenone could circulate to every part of the lake at levels effective enough to kill all of the fish, but the locals didn't want that. They wanted the fishing to come right back and thought that it would be several years if they drained the lake that much. They fought bitterly against the DFG plan and got their local representatives to fight it. The end result of this political pressure was that they only drained the lake to 75-80% of capacity. The DFG had stated that it wouldn't be effective at this level; that they would most likely have pike survive, and; they would have to poison the lake again. The DFG statements were accurate despite netting, blasting, and other measures to control and eliminate the pike.

As far as your comment about prevention not working, where is your evidence? You state that Frenchman's was illegally stocked and Daviswas subsequently stocked. with them. Frenchman's doesn't have pike anymore, and the pike numbers have been "controlled" enough that they haven't spread to other waters. How is that "not working"? The DFG was thwarted from enacting the best plan for removal from Davis or else they might have been elimianted from Davis. In addition the DFG has convinced the Nevada Dept. of Wildlife ( or whatever they are called) to eliminate pike from the two reservoirs (Rye Patch and another one) where the Davis pike originated. They are the only lakes in the region with pike, so this will prevent easy re-planting unless someone imports them from Utah, Colorado, or Wyoming.

Well said crashq! IF those pike do make it down to the Delta it could be desasterous. Not enough forage fish in Davis but think of all those juvenile salmon and steelhead that they could fill up on in the rivers feeding the delta!

[JerryInLodi]

DFG plans to make another attempt at the pike problem this September. They state they recognize the faults of the last attempt and will do it right this time. According to the sources I heard, the townspeople are now behind the efforts since they've seen the deleterious effects of pike in the fishery.

If the above actually takes place, the whole question of eating pike will be moot.

[Darian]

Hey Crash,..... Nice post. I admire your defense of DFG and wish that they were as good as they'd like to think they are. However, I recall too many articles in the Bee about DFG mismanagement of funds and staff from the early 80's (not sure any of that has changed much). Also, their political stance in dealing with water problems related to conflicts between private water interests and environmental concerns is lacking in real support of fish and/or habitat. There's just not enough space to list all of it here. If you're interested, I'd be willing to discuss it with you as you seem to have a genuine feeling about it.

I'm still not convinced that DFG has the capability to eliminate Pike from Lake Davis. Respectfully, your protestations to the contrary aren't convincing to me. Whether we like it or not, politics (local/state) are a part of the consideration for success of any project undertaken by a state agency.

As to my proof of the validity of my statement about prevention, I offer that the same statement as yours was made after Pike were eradicated from Frenchman's. Yet Pike were introduced illegaly into Davis. What's to stop that from occurring again (regardless of the source)???? Whoever is doing illegal stocking hasn't been caught and for whatever motivation will probably do it again somewhere else; given the fact that DFG enforcement is skimpy at best.

Basically, I'm saying I'll believe it when I see it.... 8) 8) 8)

[OceanSunfish]

With all due respect, you're being extremely negative. Unlike other politically charged waterways/fisheries, I don't see a reason why anyone would have an agenda to see this effort fail. If anything, DFG has 100% pressure to succeed. You can bet some of that 'pressure' is political. At least DFG knows who they are fighting; Pike.

I attended a 'scoping' meeting in 2005 and was impressed by the thoroughness being employed this 'go around'. If DFG had been this thorough (administratively speaking) the first time, we would not be discussing this issue today. They would've had the support of the town of Portola as well, like they do today.

In response to leaving Pike in Lake Davis; First off, there is no economic value whatsoever to having Lake Davis remain a Pike fishery. Everyone knows, especially those that inhabit parts of the country where Pike are 'native', that a lake containing pike is 'trophy' level for the first decade, then, when all forage is decimated, what remains are stunted pike or what are affectionally referred to as "hammerheads". They're not impressive to catch nor to eat. In Lake Davis' case, we would have a constant maintenance issue of making sure no pike escaped to other nearby waterways, including our Sac/SJ Delta.

Remember, Pike eat all soft body fish. It was said that Sturgeon may be the only survivor.

As a fishery, Davis Lake is unique, as I'm sure you know, when compared to the majority of lakes in the Sierras and southern Cascade range. Water, wind pattarns, structure, etc. make Davis Lake a virtual acquatic insect factory that can sustain a huge population of big trout that grow exceptionally fast and strong. It's a fishery that can sustain hundreds of visitors a day throughout the fishing season and not get 'hammered' to oblivion. It's a fishery that is shared harmoniously by both gear and fly fisherman as well. No special gear or limit restrictions either.

In the years leading up to the first discovery of Pike in 1994, DFG planted mostly Eagle Lake fingerlings that grew fast and exhibited wild trout behavior. Also, planting fingerlings was preferred (economically) because DFG would get more fish for their buck, so to speak vs. planting 'catchable' size fish with 'pellets' on the brain. If a fingerling was planted in April, it might reach 'catchable' size by Fall.

We are all anxious to see if this attempt is successful and we all hope for the best. I look forward to again taking my family and other youngsters to Lake Davis and teach them entomology as well as fishing in a beautiful setting.

[Matt Frey]

Does anyone know how they plan to get the pike out of the tributaries? Is this even an issue?

[Darian]

OceanSunfish,.... Sorry if I sound negative to you.... But, nothing you've pointed out changes much of anything.... as to the alleged death of the individual who did the illegal stocking, I've neither read nor heard anything about that from friends at DFG or in news media; an event I would presume would've been reported given the impact of those acts. Granted, that doesn't mean the person isn't dead....

Respecfully, I don't share your enthusiasm for Lake Davis. Nor does whether it is a unique fishery make it more important as Saving Davis was/is supposed to be about prevention of migration of Pike downstream to the Feather and, ultimately, to the delta. Restoration was a secondary consideration. 8) 8)

It remains to be seen what the positive attitudes at DFG will accomplish. My signature line expresses how I view operations by state agencies. IMHO, where DFG is concerned, healthy skepticsm is preferable to wide eyed optimism. 8) 8) 8)

[Ed Wahl]

I hope to hell they can succeed this time. I wondered last time why they didn't first drain it to a manageable size first, concentrating the pike in one or two areas. I also hope the guy/gal who started this mess is dead. That being said, we have until Labor Day to go catch some pike! I'll need some advice on timing, both for fishing and accessing the water.( Doesn't it freeze over?). I've caught Pike in Il. at any time there was open water. Cold or hot, didn't matter. I'm thinking a pram, a board on the seat, and a meat cleaver should do the trick. I'd happily chop heads off pike all day long if I could. Slow sinking line and any of those big-assed flies you guys tied should work. I missed out on the Grayling in Lobdell, not gonna let that happen again. Ed