Question for Jerry

[mikenewman]

Hi Jerry

As a professional Delta guide and prolific contributor to this and other boards. you hold a higher profile than most in the Delta flyfishing community. You are also someone who clearly wishes to promote the Delta as a year round fishery.

With this in mind, I am somewhat mystified as to why you should choose to describe the Delta Largemouth Bass as "Rats". To most people rats equate to unpleasant, disease carrying vermin and usually as something to be eradicated at all costs. The image is further compounded on your web site where you describe LMBs as "garbage collectors". At best, such language merely contributes to the view held by many flyfishers that the bass are "trash fish" and not worthy of pursuit.

This forum has enthusiastically done its best to promote the Delta LMB as a wonderfully game,accessible and worthwhile sporting option for Delta flyfishers. Please be careful of your language and imagery - we devalue our resources at our peril.

Mike

[k.hanley]

The Delta is a "world class LMB fishery" and we are lucky to have it. I enjoy the lady in the "green-n-black" skirt. :D
With respect, Ken

[Darian]

Mike,.... After reading your post, I don't see a question there. :? :? Kinda sounds like a gentle chiding and an overreaction to me. :? :?

As you correcty point out, Jerry is an avid advocate for the Delta fishery on this site and others. If he chooses to be a bit irreverant with what he calls Black Bass, I, for one, don't mind. This issue isn't even on my radar. 8) 8)

[Hairstacker]

I wondered about the "rat" reference too, especially since I've heard other flyfishermen refer to them as "green trash fish." However, I know Jerry loves catching 'em, so I don't think he intended to de-value them. I think he was just noting how common they are now in the Delta. I thought maybe we could change the reference to "squirrels," but then again that would hardly do justice to their predatory nature, would it? :lol:

[Darian]

Speaking of Squirrels,..... Did I ever tell you guys about the fishing trip I took involving a giant Black Bass, a Squirrel and an Acorn :?: :?: :?: :roll:

[Sacto John]

As a Non fly fisherman but avid Delta bass fisherman let me just say that calling a bass a "rat" common. Most tournament bass fisherman refer to any undersized bass caught as a rat. Many avid Delta bass fisherman also refer to themselves or are referred to by others as "Delta Rats"

[Hairstacker]

John, thanks for the insight! I was familiar with the term "Delta rates," but I didn't know under-sized bass were referred to as rats. It is apparent I haven't kept up with the times. :oops: :lol:

[mikenewman]

"Largemouth bass, AKA Delta Rats, are really the garbage collectors of the delta."

To my mind, strangely negative and disparaging terminology from a marketing website and unlikely to win many converts to the wonderful opportunities that bass offer the fly fisher.

But then, the phrase "Pissing into the wind" is also negative but obviously appropriate in this instance :lol:

I'm done!
Cheers
Mike

[Hairstacker]

Mike, I wouldn't call it "pissing in the wind." I think you've made us all mindful of the fact that if we want others, particularly new anglers, to come to respect and value our fishery, we must display those tendencies ourselves.

[Mike McKenzie]

for a couple of reasons. One, I've been fly fishin' the delta for largemouth since 1965 and have watched the evolution of the fishery go from where an 8 pound fish would raise eyebrows to run of the mill 10-14 pound fish and the exceptional 16lb+ fish which started in the mid 80's with the introduction of Florida strain largemouth by DFG.

Two, I watched it go from folks fishin' out of 12-14 foot row boats to the 20+ foot water rockets they call bass boats. I was also the first to guide fly rodders for largemouth on the delta.

I guess my point is that because of my long history with the delta largemouth fishery, I feel I have a vested interest in it. I also use and have used for a long time the term "green trash fish". I know numerous other folks that use the term. I guess it needs a little explainin'. It is a "term of endearment" and always used with a :) or :D So, no big deal!!

I would like to say that the very thing that has created an argueably world class largemouth bass fishery in the delta is also what is killing the other fisheries in the same delta. That is water export management or more importantly, the lack of reasonable and proper management along with honest oversight by DFG.

Capt'n Mike ( retired)

[Hairstacker]

Mike M., I find your explanation intriguing. I've heard other fly anglers refer to them as "green trash fish" and it was clear, from the context in which they were speaking, that they did not intend any "term of endearment." It makes me wonder if these folks picked up on the use of this moniker but somehow missed its intended use as a "term of endearment" and thus, unfortunately, "learned" to use this term in its literal sense -- in other words, that these are indeed to be considered a green "trash" fish.

[Mike McKenzie]

and I guess we’ll have to learn to live with ‘em! Years ago, several of us picked up the term “green trash fish” from I don’t know where. We used it to “mock” all the folks that were overtaking the delta in their new bass boats and runnin’ WOT from one end of the delta to the other in pursuit of the “Glory fish”. Most of them had no clue about the delta black bass fishery but they were doin’ their best imitation of Roland Martin or somebody. Anyway it was entertaining to watch them and some have evolved into knowledgeable delta bassers.

We did and still do, treasure “our” “green trash fish”. I guess we were kinda’ protesting that, in our perception, a lot of those folks were forgetting what fishin’ is all about and were in a constant contest with everybody else. Something that was an anathema to us. (and still is.)

As far as the naysayers’ comments about fly rodding for largemouth go, there are folks that are always willing to cut their noses off to spite their faces. There are those fly rod purists that think the only legitimate fly fishin’ is with a dry on technical water (which BTW, I also enjoy.) However they manage to miss out on a lot of exciting fishin by maintaining that attitude…

For instance, some would quibble with fishing for 20lb+ Lake Trout in 90’ water, by making a 100’cast using a lead core head with a 8” bunch of chicken feathers on the end, then counting down to 125-30 and calling it fly fishin’.. There just isn’t anything much better than strippin’ your fly back almost vertical and watching a fish on the chart recorder leave the group down on the bottom and follow your fly up to about 50’ then just about yank your rod outta’ your hands….

Others might think that casting a KDM Rat over the mats in the delta isn’t conventional fly fishin’ either, but I’ll tell ya’, the heart stopping’ blow ups make O.K. for me.

To each his own, Huh??

Mike

[dtp916]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Green Trash Fish :lol: :lol: :lol:

Delta Rats - That sounds good to me :D Sounds like some hard nose, punk fish that gives up a good fight.

[Hairstacker]

I've been lagging, but I definitely plan on tying up some KDM Rats this winter for next summer. Topwater mat busting is definitely a ticket to some potentially very big bass. :D A relaxing way to fish too until that toilet flushing strike occurs. :shock: :lol:

[Mike McKenzie]

Hey Hairstacker,

I don't know if you have the KDM Rat tying instructions or not. Any way here's a tutorial for the Rat:

http://www.flyfishnorcal.org/php-nuke/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=86

Have Fun!!
Mike

[Hairstacker]

Thank you Mike, I really appreciate the website reference! Those instructions and accompanying photos are outstanding. 8)

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Hi Mike,

I have heard the LMB conventional guys call Stripers "turd bass".

Some people fish only for Stripers and some fish only for LMB.

Many fly fishers fish for both though.

I love all those bass........

[Mike McKenzie]

"Turd Bass" Yep! Another reason that we used "green trash fish" to "mock" the LMB gear guys was the fact that they have no respect for stripers..I'm like you I love 'em all
Mike

[Sacto John]

Come on you all know that a striper is nothing but a carp in a tuxedo :)

[dtp916]

Come on you all know that a striper is nothing but a carp in a tuxedo :)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :D You got that right!

[Tom Burton]

I had the pleasure of fishing with Jerry early this month and know for a fact that he enjoys catching Large Mouth Bass and putting his clients over LMBs as much as he does stripers. I am looking forward to fishing with him again in March and this time just for RATs. I don't think that anyone that has ever met or fished with Jerry would characterize him as one who would talk badly about the fish he cares about so much. I agree with those who posted before me that it is just a term of endearment.