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View Full Version : Back in the delta, bass doing just fine!



JerryInLodi
08-01-2006, 10:42 AM
I berthed my boat at Korth's Pirate's Lair for the coming striper season after a month and a half in Baja. With the boat close at hand and in the water, I was able to fish the evening action last night.

The wind all but died by 6:30 and the fish were ready to take both foam and hair poppers. I raised over 20 fish in the next two hours, landing about a dozen, nothing big but still a fun time.

I had so much fun I think I'll hit it again tonight, low tide's around 5:00 so fishing is good for the first half of a rising tide until dark.

Katz
08-01-2006, 02:25 PM
Wow, you don't waist any time! Looking forward to your continued reports. I hope you find a LMB the size of that grouper :wink:

Kraig

JerryInLodi
08-02-2006, 01:06 PM
Katz, A LMB the size of the grouper would definately be a newspaper fish. I'd stick it in the live well as I did the grouper and haul it to somewhere with witnesses!

I'm trying to develop some flies for underwater action with LMB so that the fishing day can be extended to the full day. I've worked with a floating line and very long leader but am ending up with a yo-yo like effect when trying to cast a heavily weighted fly that can drop down into the holes in the weed and the inner water between the weed and bank. I'm going to look for a very heavy short sink tip so that I can lighten up on the fly a little.

I've also learned that flashabou, and other streaming materials have to be secured to the hook all the way to the bend otherwise they tangle in the weedless loop and hook point.

For weedless material I've ended up using the stainless wire that can be bought for sharp toothed fish. It's fairly rigid and can be bent back into shape if deformed by a fish. It seems to work better than the heavy mono.

The plastic and iron crowd can fish LMB all day long very successfully. In addition, I believe LMB, like trout, eat 90% of their food underwater, probably more! I also suspect that, as with trout, bigger fish can be caught on average with subsurface lures. I believe this because of the "incidental" catches of LMB while striper fishing. These fish are very much larger by average than those caught on poppers.

Right now I'm throwing away a lot of flies that seemed a good idea at the bench but don't do what I want on the water. If I come up with a winner I'll let you know.

Darian
08-02-2006, 04:14 PM
Jerry,.... Have you tried the Neutralizer pattern tied by Lee Haskins :?: :?: It's almost a neutral bouyancy and will sink slowly if tied with a little weight. When slow sinking, it could be cast into holes in the mats/tules and allowed to sink slowly (....similar to a Senko).

If you're not familiar with the pattern, it can be viewed at www.gurglersonline.com . 8) 8)

lee s.
08-02-2006, 04:58 PM
Jerry,
Have you tried concocting a guard out of single strand SS trolling wire. We make ours like those on the EC weedless worm hooks, added after tying the bug. The bugs get tossed into ANYTHING and return relatively easy. Fish crush'em just fine. Used'em on KD's boat and we use'em exclusively for our bass bugs. They are easy to do. :wink: Only drawback we find is they can be broken with a lot of "straightenings". Then a new one gets added at home.
....lee s.

JerryInLodi
08-02-2006, 05:52 PM
Darian, the gurgler pattern is very similar to a pattern I tie, however mine is a little more sparse. As for sink speed, I'm trying to find a pattern that sinks like a rock,can be retrieved a little slower than a spinner bait (fast) or slow (with less weight) and dives at the end of each strip. It also has to be weedless to be able to "dive" into the holes in the mat when dragged over the top. Finally, I like flies I can tie in less than five minutes.

I want to be able to fish this pattern in water anywhere from two to eight feet deep and will probably fish it on a 15 foot type IV sink tip. I'm still working with the clouser as a beginning model since it will strip with the hook up in the holes. However, all of the trailing material will have to be attached to the rear of the hook to avoid getting caught up in the weedguard/hook area.

I could also add a collar as in Blanton's Whistler flies but the collar will slow the sink rate.

lee, the stranded trolling wire seems to work pretty well when looped the same way that plastic mono is used but I think I'll stop by and pick up some of the stainless mono at Fisherman's Friend and try that as well. From the looks of the EC hook, the wire is bent double and then tied with the folded end over the hook tip with a small bend to keep it beyond the hook. Am I correct?

jbird
08-02-2006, 09:00 PM
Jerry

I posted a pic of some bass flies I tied that fit the bill of what youre describing. I posted it in the fly tying section. I bumped the thread to the top of the fly tying section so you can take a look.

Jay

JerryInLodi
08-02-2006, 09:18 PM
Jay, too cool. what you've shown was going to be my next tie. It looks like a pair of lead eyes with a zonker collar with a single strand of zonker strip as a tail. I'll add some flashabou but will tie it as far back as possible and keep it short. The flashabou is what's giving me the problems. It gets tangled in the weedguard/hook tip area. I used to be able to find flashabou in course strands. Now all the stuff is fine and gets tangled easily. I think that the flashabou is pretty much essential since when you look at the bass guys, the plastic lures and plugs frequently use a metallic undercoating. I may change the zonker collar to a hackle collar to allow the fly to sink more rapidly and the hackle will be lighter for casting.

I spend a lot of time watching the "good ol' boys" on Saturdays on OLN tossing their hardware, Carolina and Texas rigs. Fly guys should be able to tie imitations of much of what they throw without the necessity of a half to one ounce of lead or plastic. If we can, "get it right" it will open a whole new area of bassing with a fly rod in the Delta. I'm tempted to motor over to the successful bass boats I see working the water but don't want to interrupt any tournament fishermen. From what I've seen, most of them are "flipping" plastics into the tules, a few are using crank baits, and a few spinner baits. Except for the high speed retrieves, we should be able to imitate the same presentations with fly rods.

My brother-in-law and I are heading out this Friday evening so I'm going to tie some more deer hair mouse patterns tonight, one of my favorite patterns and very fast to tie. I may attempt a few deep divers as well.

lee s.
08-02-2006, 09:22 PM
Jerry,
Yes. We fold the wire and insert thru the hook eye, fold reaching the inside of the hook bend. Tie off with wire running straight. Next fold wire over the back towards hook bend at the hook eye and tie down again, cutting off excess wire. Bend folded wire away from the hook and LAST,make the little bend to accept the hook point. Done.
We ain't too good at word pics, so if you like , email snail mail addy and we'll send you a steps thingie done on hooks. :wink:

Hairstacker
08-02-2006, 09:57 PM
I think we fly guys can offer the bass great alternatives, but I think there are some very effective lures the gear guys use that I don't know that we'll ever be able to closely duplicate at the vise. :(

For example, take the Senko. On other websites, I've seen a number of flies that purportedly imitate this extremely effective lure. Sure, we can tie up something that approximates its shape, color, and sink rate. If that's all our imitation does, though, it is a very poor approximation in my opinion.

Part of what makes Senkos so effective is that they are very heavily impregnated with salt and, as they sink, their tips waggle from side-to-side (just at the tips and not up and down) and the entire worm often pitches back and forth at the same time. These characteristics are what has distinguished them from run-of-the-mill plastic worms that have been around for the last 30+ years, and I just can't see how one would incorporate them at the vise.

Hairstacker
08-03-2006, 01:48 PM
Well gee, I didn't mean to kill the conversation. . . . :lol:

lee s.
08-03-2006, 05:12 PM
HS,
You give a very juicy description of the "senko". It sounds like a lot of "built in" action. Isn't that true of many gear "baits"? Of course, in the hands of a good fisherman, some additional puppeteering is possible.
I LIKE our bugs because puppeteering is all of it. How we make'em move seems usually far more important that what we move.
If you need the stink for confidence, it can be added to feathers too, I am told. :wink:
One thing IS hard for us to copy.....weight. Try tossing something as heavy as a "tournament frog", which is a grand lure for messing with mats. I know we have some bugs that do well.....but AS well? KD's mat rat come to mind. :wink:
....lee s.

JerryInLodi
08-03-2006, 05:36 PM
I was out on the delta this morning and unfortunately the bottom third of a low, low tide. I still got some hits and fish on a deer hair mouse before trying some of my subsurface stuff.

It seemed that the tide was at its ultimate ebb at about 10:30 but I'd have to check the charts to be sure. Anyway, I tried a black zonker worm like pattern in black and a giant chartreuse woolly bugger with eyes. I was able to stick two fish with the zonker worm, both bigger than the fish I raised on the popper. The fly still needs some work, a different weed guard and the flashabou and zonker strip needs to be secured all the way to the bend of the hook to help avoid tangling.

My brother-in-law and I are going out tomorrow from early afternoon till dark. I'll have time in the early afternoon to try another, new and improved version of the fly with the above modifications. Since I think I'm getting close to what I want, I'll tie it in more colors than just black!

Hairstacker
08-03-2006, 08:29 PM
Lee, yes, the Senko is all about built-in action. In fact, even the inventor, Gary Yamamoto, acknowledges that the most effective way to fish them is to toss them out there and just let them sink. In other words, the fisherman should add no puppeteering whatsoever.

I've tried my hand at tying up a few plastic worm imitations at the vise myself. I figured as well on having to do my own puppeteering after the cast, which is fine by me, but I haven't figured out yet how to get my imitation to fall horizontally the way a Senko does. I have weighted mine around the head, like we do with most flies, so obviously they fall head-first. A conundrum. . . . :lol:

Hey Jerry, sounds like you did ok and had some fun! 8)

Darian
08-03-2006, 09:13 PM
If anyone here has read Tom Nixon's book, there's a fly in there called a Calcasieu Pigboat. It's been around a long time. intended for sub-surface, heavy without weight and should sink evenly (unless weighted in front). Can be tied with a weedless feature. 8) 8)

Consists of a tail of rubber bands, a chenille body, palmered with a saddle hackle and, depending on how many legs are needed, a collar of rubber band legs. Of course, there could be many variations of this fly but it was very productiove in the southern US. 8) 8) 8)

mikenewman
08-05-2006, 12:14 PM
Jack Ellis in "Bassin' with a fly rod" maintains that the only way for a fly rodder to compete with the rubber worm brigade is to tie on a, er, ...rubber worm!!!! he reckons that a 4" worm is perfectly castable and that fished weightless on a floater will out perform the gear guys. (I guess it's a sort of "finesse technique") He says not to use a sinking line 'cos the fish get too deeply hooked.
Not my cup of tea but I suppose it's all about one's personal definition of fly fishing.
Mike

Adam Grace
08-05-2006, 12:44 PM
For all of those like me wonderin what a "pig boat" looked like hereya go

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/cpbfly.jpg

Darian
08-05-2006, 03:10 PM
Mike,.... Did Ellis happen to mention how he kept the Senko on the hook while casting i on a fly line :?: :?: :? :? :?

Adam, good photo of the Pig Boat. Your version is beautifully black (always a good color 8) ). Just in case anyone missed it, there's ome mention of the Pig Boat in another topic under "Fly Tying". 8) 8)

mikenewman
08-05-2006, 08:03 PM
Darian
It's a Texas Rig. he doesn't mention any problems with it flying off during casting.
Now say 10 Hail Marys and pray to Halford and Skues for forgiveness for even contemplating such heresy :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mike

David Lee
08-05-2006, 08:14 PM
Now say 10 Hail Marys and pray to Halford and Skues for forgiveness for even contemplating such heresy :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mike

Heyyyy , now .......

You're now a :twisted: YANKEE :twisted: - it's a crime here to quote Halford or Skues . Especially on the warmwater board :P

I wonder how tight Cotton would have packed his Deerhair Bugs ???

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

David :unibrow:

mikenewman
08-05-2006, 08:36 PM
Hey David
I would make the case that Bass Buggin' with deer hair bugs is in the dry fly purist tradition - kinda like a huge skating sedge. But then that allows Darian to claim the rubber worm as a form of nymphing :lol:

David Lee
08-05-2006, 09:52 PM
That's the truth , my friend - I had the burning urge to toss a Clouser while in the Delta last time ...... But God forbid anyone of you saw me doing something so .... UN-BUGGIN' :oops:

Darian chuck a rubber worm ?!? While he's a savage on many levels , I'd bet against it :nod:

BTW , sorry 'bout the 'Yankee' comment - pints are on me next time :!:

David :D

Hairstacker
08-05-2006, 10:12 PM
Well, bass buggin' with deerhair bass bugs can be traced at least as far back as the first quarter of the 20th century and there was probably a greater assortment of deer hair bass bugs available commercially by the 1930s than there is today.

But "nymphing" with plastic worms? Why, there's no history or respectability in that at all. If you're gonna do it, just make sure no one's watching. :lol: Might just as well start trailing a live nighcrawler off the bend of your hare's ear nymph. . . . :? :lol:

Darian
08-05-2006, 11:29 PM
Hmmmm,.... Wonder where I left my mask :?: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: