thoughts on knots

[Charlie Gonzales]

I know most guys use the nonslip loop to connect their fly, but what about the perfection loop also. I havent been able to find any info on strength tests comparing the two when tying on a fly.

[David Lee]

Hey CG -

All I know is ..... the Kreh loop tests around 95-100% ....... the P loop is around 65% (or so I've heard) .

Have you rid your boat of them noisey , smelly ducks yet ?>?????????

:lol: David :\

[Adam Grace]

I have heard about the same percentages that David said. As far as 60-100lb tippet goes the perfection loop is much easier to tie. The Kreh non-slip loop is better with lighter test tippet.

I have experience tying the perfection with 80lb shoack tippet for tarpon....pretty easy....much easier than the huffnagle (however you spell that)

[Darian]

Bill Nash' book lists the breaking strength of the Perfection Loop is 95% and the breaking strength of the Kreh, Non-slip Loop as 95% to 100%; depending on the number of wraps used. 8) 8)

I've only used a heavy bight tippet occasionally. For connecting a bight to tippet, I believe that an Albright or Slim Beauty Knot is easy to tie and very strong. The breaking strength of the Allbright is listed as 85% and the Slim Beauty as 100% when used on 30# test or above.

Another very good loop connector is the double or triple Surgeons Knot. I've used a perfection loop in Baja and found it to be a very good knot, as well. Both loops are very strong. :) :)

[Terry Thomas]

Charlie,
We used the Perfection Loop in Campeche this year for small Tarpon and it worked out fine. I think if you are using heavy line, it should not be a problem. I don't think I would use it on small tippets.
Terry

[SteelieD]

Not trying to highjack this thread but, I have a question a little further up the line... leader to tippet. It is where I seem to have the most failures. I use a double surgeons knot. Am I missing something? How close do the tippet/leader sizes have to be to avoid negative impact? Thanks! Derek

[Hairstacker]

Derek, when you say "failure," do you mean the surgeon's knot is breaking at what you believe to be significantly less than tippet strength? The reason I ask is that I would expect the majority of break-offs to occur at either the leader-to-tippet connection or the tippet-to-fly connection, not in the middle of the tippet.

[SteelieD]

Yes Mike, I'm breaking off at the knot at what occasionally seems to be less than tippet strength (not mid tippet). It could be the product of a poor knot, but the double surgeons isn't all that difficult. I try to keep leaders and tippet the same brand figuring they are designed to work together but I recently bought a spool of 5X that is a different brand than what I normally use (and different than my leaders), this seems to have increase the number of break offs.

Maybe I need to increase my leader/tippet size or maybe I'm just catching to many big fish (tongue firmly planted in cheek! :wink: ).

[Hairstacker]

Hmmm, like you said, maybe just a bad spool? I'm a blood knot man myself, but many I highly respect swear by the double surgeon's, and it IS known for being better where there is more variation in diameters between sections.

Since you noticed the change after switching spool brands, I would address that before making any other changes. 'Course, it would help if you catch smaller fish. :lol:

[Darian]

Derek,.... The Double Surgeons Knot is listed at 100% breaking strength. If you're breaking off near the knot (as it sounds like what you're saying :? ), it's most likely the leader material.... :?

It's hard to tell how long some of the stuff stays on the shelf in a store. Not all shops have an inventory control system in place. So, older material can stay on the shelf (mixed with new) until it's sold. That could be a very long time. :( :(

Of course, the large fish theory works for me, too. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Hairstacker]

Darian, great point about shelf life. One of the things I really like about the Orvis Super Strong leader/tippet material I use, aside from its strength/diameter, is the fact that Orvis places a little sticker with an expiration date on each individual spool. They do this with their Mirage brand fluorocarbon as well. 8) Sure wish all other brands would follow suit.

[SteelieD]

Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of the shelf life thing. I guess I'll get all new leaders and tippet before my trip to the trinity next week. Good excuse to hit the local fly shop! :D

[Terry Thomas]

Double surgeons should be fine on tippets 2X and larger. On smaller you might try using a "triple surgeons." There is more slippage on fine diameter line.
t.

[Adam Grace]

I agree with Terry, I love to use a triple surgeons from 2x smaller. The Triple S. is faster and easier than a blood knot IMHO.

[Rick J]

I think Bill Nash recommends a 4 turn surgeons and I have been using that especially for light tippet - 5 x and below and particularly when going from mono leader to flouro tippet and have not had it break there.

As an aside as long as you know the limits of your tackle you don't really need a 100% knot - On very light tippet and small flies I will go to a 5 to 6 turn clinch (not an improved clinch)

If my system is going to fail I would rather it fail at the fly than higher up in the system - I sure don't want to have to tie on new tippet and a fly if I don't have to