Info needed

[J.R.]

I was sitting here, then something reminded me that I tie alot of beetles. I was just wondering if anybody knew what the most prevalent species in the Sierras are. If you don't the exact name, could you possibly tell me the size and color of any that you have seen while fishing.

[Darian]

JR,.... No disrespect meant but you might as well ask what type of snowflake is the most prevalent..... If I recall my Biology/Entomology correctly, there are more species of insects in the world than any other. :lol: :lol:

Why not limit your query to include beetles that are on the Trouts menu :?: :?: That, of course, could vary by river/stream, water type and altitude and longitude. :? Not trying to discourage but you could simplify this by checking out publications by people like Ralph Cutter or Dave Hughes to name few. Also, I believe that DFG has some free handouts/publications that cover this subject.

The only "beetles" I deliberately tie are those used at Pyramid Lake in Nevada. 8) They aren't really representative of "real life" beetles. :lol: I limit tying terrestrials to ants, hoppers and crickets. Never found a need for any others. 8) 8)

[Gregg]

JR-

I think it's a good idea to try to get as accurate as possible to the actual insect you are replicating at your tying desk. I would assume that by posting on a fly fishing board that you were already referring to beetles commonly found in or around trout streams, and being in Northern California, you are probably referring to the Sierra Nevada and outlying areas. See, we've already narrowed it down, Darian :roll:...
Best bet is to PM Mike Bias. He guides for Kiene's, and if I remember, has a masters in wetlands ecology. His website can be found at: http://setsetset.com/index.html. Definitley post when you've heard from him, as I'm sure you're not the only one interested in this topic. Mike should be able to help you narrow your search to the most prevalent species and the correct sizes. Good luck!

[Darian]

Hi Gregg,.... No need to get your defenses up. :lol: I believe, if you read the original query by JR, you'll find that he wanted to know, in part, "....what the most prevalent species (meaning beetles) in the Sierra's are." Emphasis added. I'll grant you that the query was so broad that it didn't mention waterborn beetles. But, Essentially, your assumptions didn't clarify that much.... :? :? You made a very good suggestion about an additional info source.... 8) 8)

At any rate, It's interesting that Trout fisherman, in particular, make the assumption that every other Trout fisherman thinks like they do. :? :? For example, the premise that precise representation of a particular insect in tying a fly is best. :? It's been my experience that Trout fisherman/fly tiers are as diverse in their thinking about this as could be possible. 8)

For one, I'm not sure I agree with that it's a good idea, "....to get as accurate as possible to the actual insect you're replicating...." It does, however, invite a discussion about the different styles of tying flies; impressionistic vs precise representation. 8) 8)

I'm a staunch supporter of the impressionistic school of thought. :) :) A famous fly tier, whose name escapes me at the moment, once said that the a precise imitation of an insect tied on a hook is but a poor representation of the real thing (paraphrased, not a quote). 8) I concur with that thought. 8)

My personal experience is that I catch all of the Trout (and other species of fish) using flies that rarely are precise imitations and tie none (after 52 years of tying :shock: ). Almost any book on the subject of fly fishing/tying will certainly point out a wide variety of styles and flies that have been producers, historically; some precise representations, some impressionistic. :) :)

Anybody else have any thoughts about this subject :?: :?:

[J.R.]

Gregg is closer. I'm looking for information on specific species(of beetle) in or around the trout waters of the Sierras so I can tie patterns that look enough like the real thing that the fish can't tell, even though I do tie impressionistic patterns that can be used to represent multiple different species.

[101fish]

Hmm. I think they are usually black :shock: . Seriously, i dont know the names, :? , but higher up you have large (.25 to .5 in) matte black ones with a had slightly larger than the thorax. What is big up there are size 10-14 black ants :D

[Eyecatch Tinytrout]

the a precise imitation of an insect tied on a hook is but a poor representation of the real thing

Bergman, maybe?

"...a beetle looks like a beetle; no problem there." Ralph Cutter

Okay, that quote is taken a little out of context. He was talking about humans identifying bugs, not trout identifying lunch. But Cutter dosen't have much else to say about beetles in either of his books except for a little on ladybugs. Allthough I'm sure he's written plenty that I have not read. Are beetles all that important a trout food in the sierras?

[J.R.]

I really don't know, maybe, maybe not. All I know that I like to have them as a backup on slow days, which is just about every time I go fishing. I have seen plenty of ladybugs(ladybird beetles) flying and lurking about up in the Sierras, all them really close, if not on, to trout water. I do have both of Cutter's books, I enjoy reading them alot, and he does mention very little of ladybugs in The Sierra Trout Guide and doesn't mention them(beetles) at all in Fish Food.

[slimfishin's]

Most of them have some peacock hearl or some flashy black dubbing for a body, and then they have some black foam pulled over that for casing/wings. Some of them even have a bit of colorfull yarn on top where you tie off the foam, and even a parachute hackle or some other legs. They run size 10 - 14 in black and brown. :D

Who cares? fish eat 'em! No need to identify your coleopterans down to the species to catch fish. :wink:

The Umpqua website ought to be about as good as any dichotomous key you'll need to catch high sierra trout. Check out their fly gallery for some good recipes.

SF