"The Times, They Are A Changin' ".....

[Darian]

Kinda sad to note when an institution changes for modernization (but....). In todays SF Chronicle, there is an article about changes at the Winston Rod Company in Montana.... :(

Apparently, the company was sold to a person who resides in California who had no prior connection to it. Until the sale, the makers of bamboo rods at Winston each had a long term relationship with the owners who, also, participated in the operation of the business and lived in the area. 8)

The new owner has pronounced his intention to increase profits (even tho the division of the company making bamboo rods is already profitable). This has set off a series conflicts between bamboo rod makers and the new ownership. They (5) intend to resign at the end of the year. :? Ownership has said that they will not change anything in the process of rod building but have either sold off or sent IBIS production to China and are replacing the current bamboo rod builders with trainees from other divisions; giving them 90 days training.... :shock:

Not sure what all of this means but I do recall that anytime a corporation talks about increasing profits in an already successfull company, there're always two possibilities. The first (and most common) is cost reduction.... :( That, almost universally, means reduction of quality; either in materials or labor. :roll:

Too bad.... :( I still recall visiting the Winston shop in SF prior to their move to Montana just to pay with a quality bamboo rod.... 8) 8)

[Eyecatch Tinytrout]

Great example of trying to fix something that ain't broke. And all in the name of the allmighty $. Don't like it one bit.

[sculpin]

I guess only time will tell how successful the move for greater profitability will work for the new Winston owner. There has been quite a few fly fishing equipment manufactures changing ownership this year. If the new owners don't do a good job it will help new businesses get started to fill the gap.

Mark

[Darian]

Kinda like the changing the guard.... :( Of course. nothing lasts forever. :? Maybe the new crop of rod manufacturers'll create some really cool new stuff. :D :D

[OregonSalmon]

What are you talking about Darian....nothing lasts forever. The teachings of Jesus will last forever, and there is evidence he fished, fly fished, and of course with bamboo. I will never seek the Holy Grail, but sure would like to get my hands on that rod.

[Darian]

Jesus was a fly fisher :?: :shock: :shock:

Ya know, the two manufacturers of bamboo rods that I really liked were Winston and Powell. Now, both have been sold to interests who have very little, if any, connection to the game..... :? :?

Oh well, guess it's a sign of the times. 8) Powell still makes some nice Graphites. Don't know about the bamboo rods, tho. 8) 8)

[Jay Murakoshi]

Darian,

I have a couple of old Powell rods. Actually one is old and the other one is getting their. I have a bamboo that was made by E.C. Powell in excellant condition and a two rod set that was make by Walton. They've only been out of the case maybe a dozen times, never fished

Good keepsakes

Jay

[Digger]

I'll make the following 'general' comments:

I have been a mfg professional in the defense indsty since 1980. I also have a business degree as well as an Engrg degree. I see a company's desire to increase profitability all the time, and it isn't always at the expense of quality. I currently work at the smallest defense electronics company I've ever been at, and the 1st thing I noticed is how much everything gets done by osmossis or because 'this is the way it's always been done'. I observe the process and say how about if we try this, or what if we make a fixture to hold that? The technicians look at me and say something like "hey, that's a good idea!!!" And, now we have consistency, quality, efficiency, etc.

Point being... some old ways have room for improvement. Productivity, quality, shortened cycle times, can co-exist, if done right. A lot of companies are stuck in their old ways and sometimes a fresh look is all it takes to make an impact. Also, technology has made and will continue to make changes in how things are done to increase productivity and profitability. Ingenuity has always been our (the U.S.) cornerstone.

Then again some things need to be made the old fashioned way. A lot of this is all about perception. Is a hand made cane rod better in every single way than a state of the art hybrid/composite/unobtainium sort of production rod?

And, one of the things I always sneer at is "if it ain't broke ......"
Geez we'd still be driving with carburetors, fiberglass belted tires, drum brakes, etc. etc. etc.

[BigBuddha]

Point well taken Digger, but on the flip side I think the key point here is that fly rod makers are being taken over by people not necessarily into fly fishing. If the change is for making a better product or streamlining the manufacturing process then good. But, if profit is the sole line then it is reasonable for people to expect that product may suffer. Looking at the gun business for example there are numerous plastic pistols, new fangled actions etc. out there, but the two elite hostage rescue teams in the United States, FBI HRT, and Delta Force choose to use the 1911 .45 ACP. This design is nearly 100 years old now, sometimes people find solutions to questions that don't exist.

[Digger]

Not to disagree for the sake of disagreement, but ALL DoD acquisitions follow through the DAR/FAR process and is by no way an open market selection like the general public can.

[Darian]

Since my original post was more of a lament than an attempt to open a debate, I won't belabor this beyond making this observation. Selling off a portion of a profitable business shortly after acquisition doesn't necessarily equate to process improvement or modernization. 8) More likely, it's profit taking.... 8)

[Eyecatch Tinytrout]

some old ways have room for improvement.

And, one of the things I always sneer at is "if it ain't broke ......"
Geez we'd still be driving with carburetors, fiberglass belted tires, drum brakes, etc. etc. etc.

Digger makes some excellent points. We don't really know what goes on within a given company. Maybe they've got more sense than they are being given credit for. But if you ask me, the handwritting is on the wall.

[Hairstacker]

Digger, actually the FAR allows quite a bit of discretion in a non-sole source, catalogue item procurement. The DAR, by the way, was replaced by the FAR in 1984.

[Digger]

One of the things that bothers me is that there seems to be a sense that any company should only be profitable by x%. Like, there is no right to be 20% profitable if you're already at 15%. It's viewed as being greedy(?)

I've always believed that in our 'supposedly free and open market' economy, profits shouldn't be dictated and any company has the right to pursue unlimited profits as it sees fit (within legal/ethical bounds).

We (consumers) can either buy that rod, not buy that rod, buy the competitors rod; thus it's really us who ultimately determines a company's success.

The other thing is when I read a 'SF Chronicle' article (or other similar media), I always assume there's a slant in their reporting.