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View Full Version : Lining up for Skagit casting



Bill Kiene semi-retired
12-14-2005, 10:49 AM
I have been studying up on the Skagit system with the help of Jeff Putnam, Mike McCune and the staff at Rio.

Rio makes Skagit lines that are just a body with running and a welded loop on the front to attach your tips. I guess they don't come with tips to keep the cost down. Rio said that many Spey casters already have tips or make their own with T14.

Skagit lines come in 4 sizes: 450, 550, 650 and 750 grains and the body with back taper is 27' on all of these.

Mike McCune advised me to get some Windcutter bodies in small size to use on the small Spey rods (#4/5) so here are the specs on some smaller lines too.

The 9/10/11 WC body is 320 grains and 23' long plus the running line.

The 10/11/12 is 378 grains and 24' long.

The 11/12/13 is 495 grain and 27.5' long. (fits between 450 and 550)

On the Rio web site is a big chart with many new Spey rod line recommendations so you can go there and find out how much weight in grains it takes to load your rod.

Then you need to make up a Skagit system where the total head is 3 to 3.5 the length of your Spey rod for balance.

We have Rio Skagit Cheater kits which come in line sizes (different weights) with a 5' and 10' looped floating section.

We also carry extra Rio looped 15' tips in size #10 (150 grains) in floating, type 3, type 6 and type 8. We can order different size(weight) 15' tips but Rio said these #10 size would work for most.

After you know your grain weight you need to calculated 3 to 3.5 times you rod length.
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Mike McCune already told me that I need an 11/12/13 WC body for my 13'3" #6 Anderson Spey rod.

So 3 times 13'3" is ~40' and 3.5 times is ~46'.

The 11/12/13 body is 27.5' plus a 15' tip is ~42' so I am in the 'ball park' without having to add a Cheater section (5' or 10').

The body is 495 grains and a #10 tip is 150 grains so I am at 645 grains.
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I would recommend that you have someone help you with this.

You can email/phone Rio or Jeff Putnam for a little advise.

Rio 208-524-7760 or general@rioproduct.com

Jeff 916/502-2037 or jeff@jpflyfishing.com

Rick J
12-15-2005, 08:10 AM
Bill
Great summary. I got the 10/11/12 from you several weeks ago for the Anderson 1204 and it is great. It was listed at 400 grains in the package (vs the 378?)

I have the 550 Skagit for my Scott 1287 and the Anderson 133-7. Although it is a nice fit on the Scott, I think the biggest WC might be better at a few less grains so that is next on my list - that way I can have two winter rods rigged with different tips so don't have to change over.

Bill Kiene semi-retired
12-15-2005, 10:22 AM
Great Rick,

I have been studying and working on this so we can have the "right stuff" in stock at the shop.

When I first got those WC bodies in I rounded up from 378 to 400 but later realized it would be better to be dead accurate.

Mike's presentation was very good and well attended by many serious local Spey guys.

Jeff Putnam is also teaching Skagit casting now.

Skagit on......................

bubzilla
12-15-2005, 04:39 PM
I guess they don't come with tips to keep the cost down.

Any idea why they jacked the price up from $75.00 to $90.00 in the last couple months? I paid $75.00 for my 550 in July, but when I went in to get a 650 for another spey the other day they were $90.00. I checked online, and they are now $90.00 everywhere.

I can't see going $90.00 for what you're getting. You can build one for a lot less (Kinney, Ward, etc. have been doing it for years), and the materials are readily available (as well as the instructions online). Of course, you always could build one for less, but now it's a matter of principle as well.

I just can't help but believe there is some taking advantage of what has become a popular product going on with the new pricing. Their Skagit lines are basically a running line attached to a level piece of floating line with a welded loop in the front. They have a slight rear taper, but it's hardly comparable to the complex tapers they have in their other spey lines. Heck, their Scando head with the interchangeable tips is only $90.00, right? What gives?

Not trying to come down on you in any way Bill, so please don't take it that way. Just curious since you retail Rio stuff if you can explain what the thinking in the price jump was?

SSPey
12-31-2005, 11:30 PM
quote below directly from RIO:

The Skagit spey lines gave a much higher manufacturing cost. The reason being, the very large diameter bodies of these lines have to be cured at a much slower rate to get the line to fully cure. Skagit lines are produced at about half the speed of our other spey lines. The other spey tapers will remain at $75 with no price increase.

Sincerely-

Zack Dalton

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if you want to build a Skagit 550 or lower, then River Run Anglers can set you up with 16 wt (21 gr/ft) level line, or lighter. I am unaware of a source for heavier stuff.

Moose
01-01-2006, 10:31 AM
And to throw yet another angle into the mix, Airflo now has a skagit head system that apparently has a reverse compound taper design to allow for a better casting loop.

The Rio lines are basically a fat, heavy piece of level line with a short rear taper and integrated running line, and they excell at moving big heavy flies and tips. These work on the principle of a huge mass in the line carrying just about anything that is attached to it, and they work. From what I understand (and in my own experience) the ease in casting nice loops is more difficult because there is no taper to the head and they are basically overkill for anything other than a need to move big heavy flies.

The Airflo heads have a tapered design, come with a custom cuttable tip (20 feet and 200 grains) but do not have the integrated running line, so they are basically a heavy shooting head. They are supposed to be a much nicer casting line than the Rio but don't move the really big heavy flies like the Rio line does, so for throwing your average sized steelhead hairwings, buggers and big nymph's this might be a more caster friendly everyday line. I'm looking forward to trying these.

Yet another twist I've been experimenting with is going with a slightly lighter skagit type head and foregoing the perry poke/line dump that gives the extended anchor/water load inherent in the skagit cast and just using the basic single spey cast, albeit it is a very abbreviated stroke. If the idea that the mass of the line put into motion in the form of a D loop behind the rod tip from a dead line position loads the rod and allows for the cast, then it should also work if put into motion from a live line postion forward of the caster so long as the anchor is maintained. This is tending to work with lines heavier than the standard Scando style but lighter than the PNW skagit heads and may prove to be a very friendly way to fish the short head game on a two hander with moderate sized flies that can prove to be a bit difficult on the average spey short head, like throwing weighted tube flies on a windcutter.

So many possibillities!

I can see that this is going to become a matter of an angler first buying a 2 handed rod and then fine tuning a head sytem (or sytems) to match specific water conditions and try as they may, the line companies are never going to be able to standardize a system for 2 handers as there are just too many variables. They do offer a very good mean line as a starting point and places like this local web community Bill Kiene is offering us (and others like the Speypages site) is probably the best place to be able to interact and get the information needed for specific rod and waters. I would like to encourage anyone with questions or findings to post them here.

Rick J
01-01-2006, 03:37 PM
Moose makes a point about the skagit lines. Folks think they need to skagit cast with them (rather than traditional touch and go casts). But I have seen Scott O and Mike M (who designed the RIO skagit lines) use traditional casts with ease. One of my favorite casts is a reverse snake roll that is a touch and go cast.

No quesion that the heavy line is clunkier than a tapered line but casting a tapered sink tip you can very easily throw nice tight loops with this system to great distances with very little effort.

I would be interested to try the new AIRFLO lines but I so often am throwing heavy bugs and heavy tips during winter fishing that I think the RIO has the advantage if you were to pick a single skagit system.

Scott and Mike wanted RIO to use a finer running line than what they ended up with so they have taken a page out of the Ed Ward book (designer of the AIRFLO skagit lines) and cut the running line and attached slick shooter. I have gone to this method and am very impressed. Very easy to shoot line and still control the line once it is fishing. You can easily mend this system to great distances.

Mending becomes problematic when casting angling upstream and trying to dead drift/high stick as the stuff won't mend without tension on it but the light running line does not do well at this either. Longer belly lines however are easily mended with this technique so it is always good to have a compliment of systems available to you on the water

sculpin
01-01-2006, 05:54 PM
I'm not a pro Spey caster but I agree with you Rick that all the spey casts work fine with the Skagit Heads. You just have to slow down and shorten up your stroke a bit so you don't loose your anchor when forming the D-loop. I find when doing a double spey cast if I pause for just a moment when forming the D-loop, it works best for me.The same goes with the SnapT or Circle Cast. Perhaps I am putting to much punch into the D-loop,but it works for me. One thing about the Skagit Heads you can fish very close or at quite a distance if you don't mind stripping in line. I actually find I can cast farther with them than I can effectivly fish. Even on a BC trip this fall Jbird caught just as many fish with a one hander as 3 of us using Spey rods that could cast a block. I think the difference is the ease of casting heavy heads. I would have been sore after 8hrs using my one hander with heads.
It's interesting that I hear of folks using Slickshooter for running line. Perhaps I got a bad spool ,but my only experience with it wasn't good. It had so much memory in it even after stretching it about to the break point. It would boil out of my stripping basket like a slinkey and if it stayed in it, it would crawl and become a tangled mess. After the first couple of hours with it, spent mostly untangling it, I canned it.

Mark