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Langenbeck
12-11-2005, 06:32 PM
After getting to 38,300 cfs two weeks ago the Rogue is back to about 2,700 cfs with a 42 degree water temperature. Back of the house in the AM caught & released a chrome bright 14" half pounder. Then went back the last hour of the day & caught & released this very thick, chrome bright 30" wild winter steelhead. Normally don't start fishing for winter fish in the Grants Pass area until the second week of Jan. A very pleasant surprise.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/gordonl/30Steelhead11Dec05Two.jpg

WillJ
12-11-2005, 10:41 PM
That.. is an absolutely beautiful fish Gordon. That fish must have read you the riot act, I can't even imagine.
I got a nice summer fish a hair under that size the other day and had a hell of a time with it AND I think it was a retread. This fish looks as though it succesfully avoided all predators until your peacock ice dub infamous fly thing.
Thanks for posting, gets me fired up for the winter run..

PatrickM
12-12-2005, 12:34 PM
Great fish, Gordon. Just curious - how do you tell a winter fish from a summer one?

Langenbeck
12-12-2005, 01:24 PM
PM. I tell the difference primarly by coloration and secondly by the calendar.
A typical late summer/early fall fish typically would have quite a bit color like this fish:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/gordonl/25Steelhead12Nov05.jpg

Winter fish are usually thicker and are almost totally silver in color. Also on the Rogue summer/fall steelhead typically are in the Grants Pass area from late Aug. until early Dec. and winter fish are usually here from early Jan until mid-Apr.

Since we had a huge push of high water, 38,300 cfs, about two weeks ago it may have triggered some early winter fish.

PatrickM
12-12-2005, 03:04 PM
Very interesting. Thanks, Gordon.

bubzilla
12-12-2005, 04:44 PM
The real, and by far most important, difference between what we call “summer” and “winter” steelhead is sexual maturation. Summer steelhead enter the river sexually immature. It will be anywhere from several weeks to many months before they are ready to spawn. Winter steelhead mature sexually while still in the ocean. They enter the river and find suitable spawning habitat relatively quickly–sometimes within days. There is argument among biologists as to the degree of genetic difference between the two reproductive ecotypes, but sexual maturation is really key.

Unfortunately, identification of steelhead as either summer or winter based merely by the time of their return to the river or their coloration can be highly questionable. On the Rogue, for example, late fall fish, which are sexually immature when they enter the river, will overlap this time of year with winters that were mature when they left the Pacific. The same thing happens, although to a lesser degree, with early summers and winters in the late spring. And, because it’s believed that summer steelhead can and do enter the river just about any month of the year, there’s always the possibility of a summer.

Sometimes the calender is a good indication, but many months it’s not necessarily helpful. For many the most confusing months on the Rogue are December and January when there are still mostly summer fish in the upper and upper-middle river while winter fish have begun to run the lower river and reach the lower-middle.

Coloration isn’t full-proof, either. Although, with a fish as bright as the one Gordon has pictured that was caught in the Middle Rogue this time of year its color is a pretty good indication it’s a winter run. Next month even more so. But that’s hardly conclusive for the entire river. Winter fish that are ocean bright in the middle river are colored upstream in the Upper Rogue (see the picture of a winter fish, similar in size and sex to the fish Gordon has pictured, on the upper river last March below).

Guys will start talking about the winter steelhead they are catching on the Upper Rogue in the next few weeks. The overwhelming majority of them–as in close to 100 percent--will have in fact caught summer fish that are waiting for tributary levels to rise so that they can spawn. Most will assume since it’s winter time by the calendar they must be catching “winter” steelhead, but generally they aren’t. Also, since fish on the upper river tend to show color regardless of whether they are summers or winters, the colored nature of the fish they are catching is not an unavoidable clue in and of itself. I personally don’t usually take reports of winters on the upper river too seriously until February unless I know the person who caught the fish.

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL596/2374697/7099839/121664179.jpg

Darian
12-12-2005, 11:31 PM
Hey Bubz,.... Good post. The info is very interesting. Is there any indication that Summer and winter fish use the same sections of river/tribs for spawning :?: :?: Or, do the winter fish spawn in lowers reaches of the same water :?: :?: :?: Kinda wondered if the spawn on top of each other :? :?

Also,.... How's the knee doin' :?:

PatrickM
12-13-2005, 12:38 AM
Thanks, Bubz. That's some good info there.

bubzilla
12-13-2005, 05:15 PM
Darian,

The Speyside homeopathic remedy I applied the first night and every night since fixed my knee nicely, thanks. :lol:

Those are tough questions regarding the spawning preferences of summer and winter steelhead. Part of the problem is that there is a lot of overlap. Conventional wisdom, as I've always heard it, indicates that summers on the Rogue, for example, are primarily small tributary spawners while winters are mainstem and large tributary spawners, but that is way overly simplistic and not exclusively true.

I think that in addition to spawn timing being similar between both species, the reality is there is a great deal of overlap in terms of where they spawn as well. On some rivers it's much easier--either they only have one reproductive ecotype (generally winter run on coastal streams and summer run on inland streams), or there is a migration obstacle or such that separates the two runs during spawning, e.g., the Siletz River in Oregon where, quite counter intuitively, a set of falls on the mainstem Siletz is only navigable for fish during summer months, and as a result summer run fish spawn in the upper forks of the river while winters spawn below the falls. But in terms of answering your questions directly, I'm not sure they can be for sure–definitely not by me.

Below is an excerpt from an NOAA memo regarding the status review of Illinois River steelhead (major tributary of the Rogue). The memo itself contains a LOT of good information for general background not only on the Rogue drainage as a whole, but on steelhead generally as well. This particular passage is pretty much on point to what we're talking about here.

"Migration timing does not necessarily provide a good indicator of when steelhead spawn. Summer steelhead enter fresh water in a reproductively immature state, as early as May, and do not spawn for many months. "Winter steelhead" migrate when they are closer to reproductive maturity. Both summer and winter steelhead spawn in the winter to early spring. In drainages with sympatric populations of summer and winter steelhead, there may or may not be temporal or spatial separation of spawning. Everest (1973) described spawning for Rogue River summer steelhead as December-March and for winter steelhead as March-June. Large rivers such as the Klamath and Rogue may have migrating steelhead throughout the year (Kesner and Barnhart 1972). Often, there are peaks in migration which are used to describe different runs. The most commonly described are the summer and winter runs, with the names referring to the season in which the steelhead enter fresh water. Spring- and fall-run steelhead enter fresh water reproductively immature and, therefore, are grouped with summer-run steelhead in this document. Rivers (1957) described three runs of steelhead in the Rogue River basin: spring (early summer), fall (late summer), and winter. Within these runs, he described 11 geographic "races" (Table 5). The most current information on run timing for Rogue River basin steelhead comes from ODFW. "ODFW now views the Rogue River basin as having two runs of steelhead: a summer run that generally enters the Rogue River from April through October; and a winter run that generally enters from November through March" (Fustish et al. 1989, p. 4; see also Table 6).

Spawn timing may be heritable at least in part, but it is also subject to modification by streamflow, water temperature, and other variables. Rivers (1963) stated that in years of average streamflow and water temperature, Rogue Basin winter steelhead demonstrated the following pattern in peak spawning activity: Rogue River, 15 March; Illinois River, 1 April; and Applegate River, mid- to late April. Notably, Everest (1973) found a 2-week shift in peak spawning between years for Rogue River summer steelhead."