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donpline
12-01-2005, 11:01 AM
There has been some talk on this board about coastal rivers. I live in the Bay Area and fish the Gualala, Garcia, and Navarro each season. Here is just a little information to help you out.

The Gualala was great in 2001, 02, and 03. The 04, and 05 season saw less fish in the lower river, but there was a reason. The fish would not hold in the lower river because of a few problem sealions and harbor seals. A sealion would move up the river in the very early morning, and would chase fish out of the good holes and runs. In early 04 the sealion would go all the way to the Switchville area(4 miles up river). By the end of 04 they would actually go up the very thin water of the Northfork and chase the spawners. And last year people reported seeing them as far up a Buckpile, which is a good 7 to 8 miles up river. So I think the fish were in the system but headed up river or into the spawning tribs very quickly. This river is best fished at 300 CFS down to 175 CFS. And then I base the other two rivers off of these flows. Your best bet for success is to become a student of the USGS page which will give you flow information on the rivers. The Garcia will fish about the same time as the Gualala, the Navarro will take another 2 to 3 days to clear after a big rain. So if you hit the Navarro and it is muddy, move south, if you hit the Gualala and Garcia and they are too clear head north. Although there are fish in these rivers as early as December, the time to really focus your efforts is towards the end of January through early March.

The Garcia clears at very close to the same rate as the Gualala, and has a very similar size of fish, and when everything is normal a similar population. I have not had the sealion problems on this river.

Access has become harder on all of these rivers. The put in at the Gualala is owned by a logging company and has made it difficult to put in drift boats. You can purchase a special permit from Gualala Redwoods. At the Garcia the take out is down a road that is operated by the city. Because of trash dumping by locals you'll need to get a special key from the city to access this road. On the Navarro, they have had some large Redwoods fall and block the river 1/2 way down. It's very hard to portage a drift boat, but is possible. We use the one man pontoon boats and don't have a big problem.

These rivers are remote and a little out of the way to get to, but to catch a 34 inch fish that has sealice, and is able to rip off 75 feet of line in a flash is worth the effort. Good luck.

Darian
12-01-2005, 12:22 PM
You obviously fish these rivers from a drift boat.... I was under the impression that the Gualala had a regulation that prohibited drift boat usage during Steelhead season.... :? :?

I was fortunate enough to have fished all of those rivers during the period from the late 60's thru the late 70's (prior to moving to Sacramento). I always concentrated my efforts in the estuary or tidewater segments and had a lot of luck with Silvers/Steelhead. :D :D I always timed trips to tidal movement and weather fronts.... Both seemed to encourage activity on the part of fish. 8) 8)

During the 60's, there was a little bar/motel at "Navarro by the Sea". This place was across a dirt parking lot from the lagoon and at the base of a bluff. We'd line up and fish for Silvers (you could see 'em rolling all over the lagoon :D ) and when we tired or got cold, we'd go to the bar and get some hot chili or soup and watch the fish roll thru the window over the bar. Also, the hillside opposite the lagoon was overgrown with a lot of grasses which attracted deer for watchin'.... 8) 8) Then a combination of very big storm surges, lack of business forced a closure. Not much left there, now.... :( :(

donpline
12-01-2005, 12:55 PM
It must have been great fishing for both silvers and steelhead in those small rivers. The silvers are a distant memory, only rumors about a guy who knows a guy who saw a guy catch one last week.

I fish from the shore, a pontoon boat and a drift boat. You cannot fish out of a driftboat on the Gualala below the Northfork. Above the Northfork is permitted. I usually only use the pontoon to get to spots that do not have public access. 95% of my fishing is from the shore.

The lunch spot on the Navarro sounds like it was a lot of fun. We fish the upper stretches of the river, I've never fished the lagoon. What tide did you catch them in the tidal area?

Darian
12-02-2005, 12:38 AM
We used to try to get there when a good high tide was on the rise and fish thru it.... Some days, there were so many Silvers in the lagoon that you could see 'em rolling every 30 seconds.... I've been by there many times since during the month of October and haven't seen even one fish roll while I was passing. :( :(

Shooting heads, long casts and short strip retrieves.... 8) The fly we used was a size 4; short, sparse Grey Squirrel tail, metallic silver chenille body and Jungle Cock for eyes.... Guess it imitated a Stickleback :? :? Sometimes I used a Black/Brown Wooly Worm.... :lol:

it sure was fun to hook a Sliver in that much water and space to run.... :D :D

Bill Kiene semi-retired
12-02-2005, 01:48 AM
I heard the Navarro had Silvers and I know the San Lorenzo in Santa Cruz had Silvers years ago too. I think other rivers had them too.

I think the big drought of the late '70s was the final straw that finished most of those runs?

I guess lodging, rods, vineyards and dams were the real culprits?

Darian
12-02-2005, 09:49 AM
Hi Bill,.... Slivers were in all of the Coastal Streams; even the small streams south of SF.... 8) 8) The San Lorenzo had a decent run in it. To me the loss of spawning habitat (whether thru the things you listed or development, logging, poaching and maybe changes in the ocean....) was the cause of their demise. :(

The Navarro River was the first one I noticed a change in, tho.... :? It seemed like there were some major changes in the bottom of the lagoon. It became sanded in and shallow after several very big winter storms.... :( :( Maybe the siltation process happened upstream, as well.... :(

Bill Kiene semi-retired
12-02-2005, 10:05 AM
Darian,

There is a movement right now to get Silvers back in some of the CA rivers.

I think the Russian River might be part of this project?

I have heard that Slivers are running into the Rogue, Klamath and Trinity every fall.

I know the CA DF&G only raised King Salmon for decades but now they are working on the Silvers again.

I would love to see a project with wild Silver Salmon but??

I caught a ton of fresh wild Silvers in Alaska on the Tsiu River but I have never caught one in CA. Maybe we will now?

donpline
12-02-2005, 10:48 AM
Over Thanksgiving weekend I stopped at the hatchery in Lewiston to watch them spawn kings. There was a very strong number of silvers also returning to the hatchery.

I did catch one silver this year in the Del Loma area, and had another on in the Douglas City Area. For guys that put some time on the Trinity this year, the chances of hooking one were pretty good.

I know of at least 1/2 dozen that were caught.

Scott Creek south of SF has a small hatchery run, and the San Lorenzo still has a few that return each year. I also heard that fish and game spotted a few on the Gualala, and the Garcia last year.

Darian
12-02-2005, 01:55 PM
Wow!!! Hatchery fish in Scott Creek :?: :? I didn't know there was a hatchery there.... The only thing close to a hatchery was an ocean based commercial Silver farming operation on Waddell Creek and that one failed.... :( Scott Creek was on my list of stops between San Gregorio Cr., and the San Lorenzo River. Never fished above the lagoons in those creeks but each one had some very beautiful scenery surrounding 'em. 8) 8) Waddell Creek had the best of all, tho. Did you know that Herbert Hoover owned that property (drainage) all the way up to Skyline Blvd. :?: 8) 8) He, or his heirs, donated the property to Stanford University. 8)

All of those creeks (San Gregorio, Pescadero, Gazo's, Scott, Waddell, etc.) had small runs of Silvers/Steelhead. I always considered the San Lorenzo a larger stream for that area.... This discussion brings back some memories of fishing Soquel Creek, as well. :D :D :D

One of the better flies for that area was a modified Boss pattern tied on a very heavy hook (Mustad 7970 :lol: ), size 2 thru 8. This fly had an flourescent orange craft fur tail, black or orange floss body ribbed with the black or orange floss (lacquered) and a black or orange saddle hackle. The dark version for muddy water and the brighter version for clearer waters.... 8) Kinda makes me wonder whether it would still fish well :?: :? :?

dberry
12-02-2005, 09:35 PM
There are several small streams along the coast that still support small runs of silvers. For the most part, they are closed to fishing due to the presence of the runs. I used to count fish in Muir Creek every year. The run in that small stream was sometimes in the 100+ range. Farther up, Salmon Creek [Sonoma County version] has a small run. Last year was a very poor return for that watershed. Up in Mendocino, Caspar Creek supports a run. Last year [2004] there were less 500 fish; in 2003 there were 1100+ returns. Little River has a small run that someimes approaches 250 fish. There are several small streams in the King range that support small runs of silvers.
Ocean sport fishers in the Ft Bragg area catch quite a few silvers during the ocean sport fishing season. They are supposed to return those fish; survival is an issue with those fish. Silvers will spawn in a stream the size of a bathtub - strange fish.

Darian
12-02-2005, 10:00 PM
Yeah,.... Strange but wonderfull.... :D :D

Was the Little River you mentioned in Mendocino or Humboldt County :?: :?:

dberry
12-02-2005, 10:20 PM
Little River in Mendocino County - the one that run through Van Dame State Park.

Tony Buzolich
12-03-2005, 06:19 AM
Last year I spent a good amount of time on the Russian fishing steelhead in the area above Cloverdale. Every day on the way home to Redwood Valley I'd stop at the Coyote Hatchery at Lake Mendocino to see how many steelhead had come up and how the run was progressing.

At the hatchery they had several holding ponds full of silver salmon smolt that they had been raising. I was told that the fish came from the Noyo River at Ft. Bragg, would be raised at the hatchery in Ukiah, and then returned to the Noyo.

I was glad to see this happening. Most of the workers at the hatchery were volunteers from the Ukiah Rod & Gun Club and were there every day that the run was going on. Quite impressive.

Hopefully some day there will be viable populations of silvers enough so that we can have a season on them.

Here's another teaser. What about a viable population of pinks? For the last few years another local coastal stream stream has had a small run of pink salmon large enough to make to make the news in Ukiah.

No, not the Russian.
TONY

Bill Kiene semi-retired
12-03-2005, 10:37 AM
If they could give those rivers some help I am sure some of those runs could come back.

Darian
12-03-2005, 01:03 PM
Pinks in our coastal streams :?: :?: Very interesting.... :) If I recall correctly, Pinks utilize the lower stretches of rivers/streams for spawning. Maybe that would contribute to establishing them in a bunch of places along the coast. 8) 8)

The only problem I see for them is that they seem to spawn during the same period that Kings spawn. Not many rivers/streams along our coats that have enough water to provide access to spawners during August/September.... :( That's seems to be the limiting factor for Kings along the coast. :?

Many of the old timers I fished with told me that Kings used to spawn in the Garcia and Noyo Rivers.... 8) Don't think there's too many, if any, in the Garcia any longer. :( :(

Covelo
12-03-2005, 08:43 PM
There use to be silvers in Strawberry Creek that runs through the UC Berkeley campus. Steelhead used to occur in streams all the way down to northern Baja Calif. A lot has changed. The Eel River used to have a large run of silvers especially up the South Fork. Most fishermen did not know about them because the river was usually high and muddy when they were passing through. Have not heard anything about them lately. Here is a link the the DFG recovery plan for coho.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/nafwb/CohoRecovery/RecoveryStrategy.html

And here is a link to historical fish counts at Benbow. Anyone have a time machine? 8)

http://www.hits.org/salmon98/history/damrecords2.html

Most king salmon in the in the coastal streams don't come in until Oct-Nov when the rains hit. Occasionally a few fish show in the estuaries in Sept, but the only rivers with fish in Aug are the Sac and Klamath. BTW a friend reported seeing a few kings in the San Lorenzo last year. Supposedly there used to be kings in the Gualala too.

Darian
12-03-2005, 09:42 PM
Kings in the Gualala.... :? :? Interesting. I fished that river heavily during the late 60's thru the mid 70's and never saw or heard of a king being taken in the Gualala.... :? :?

Unless there're early, heavy rains, the sandbar at the mouth doesn't blow out until late fall (near mid-November). I wouldn't think King's would be able to maintain a viable population under those conditions.... 8) 8)

Oh well,.... wouldn't be the first time I was mistaken :lol: :lol:

Covelo
12-03-2005, 10:27 PM
"Juvenile Chinook (king) salmon specimens were caught prior to 1945, indicating that they were present at that time. " I don't remember where I first heard about kings in the Gualala but I found the above quote at the following web page. Certainly many of the problems with this river are a result of heavy logging so one might presume that there is a lot more gravel in the lower river now (especially after 1964), therefore issues with the mouth closing in the summer may not have been as common way back then.

From http://www.ncwatershed.ca.gov/gualala/gualala_river.html

Here is another good web page. I especially like the estimates of 19,000 steelhead in the San Lorenzo and 50,000 steelhead in the Russian River in the 1960s. Wow!

http://www.krisweb.com/biblio/ncc_cdfg_taylor_1978_status.pdf

Cruzin4Metalheads
12-11-2005, 06:35 PM
Really great site, first time I have posted anything.
Regarding some of the discussion of both silvers and kings south of San Fran. There are still some really good runs of Silvers left, but some year classes are much better than others. There is one year class that is really strong. Silvers are all the way to the Carmel/ Big Sur that I have whitnessed or have caught.
The Kings/Silvers are a result of the Hatchery program on Scott Creek.
http://mbstp.org
More people should be aware of this Hatchery, they are non-profit, and do great work in the area raising awareness.

They pen raise some Moke fish in the Santa Cruz harbor and release them into Monterey Bay. If they don't get caught out on the bay, when returning they look for anything they can find to spawn. Whatever stream/ creek/ drainage ditch opens to the salt first they enter.

Darian
12-11-2005, 10:10 PM
I'm not always a fan of hatcheries but, in this case, it sounds like the right place and right time.... Good for them. 8) 8)

I'm really happy to hear about those populations coming back. :D :D