Random question...where will fly fishing be in...

[Gregg]

Hey guys (and girls),
I was talking to Adam Grace earlier about where we think fly fishing will be in 10, 20, or even 30 years. Both of us are young, and into fly fishing, but I definitley see a lack of other fly fishers in our age group. Enough anyway to sustain the industry. I'm sure manufacturers and retailers have noticed this coming, but I was wondering what people thought. If I was in the industry, I would definitley be concerned about the next generation of consumers. I don't think access is the problem (as it is with hunting), and decent quality gear can be found for a reasonable price (TFO, Tioga, etc...) so price shouldn't be the problem. I would assume that a majority of the fly fishermen on the river got into it young and made it a life long passion, and while I'm sure there are some late bloomers, are there enough younger people in the sport? I think it's great to see guys like Mike Weir (Fisheye videos) approaching the sport from a younger point of view, but nobody else seems to be following. What do you all think?

[Darian]

Such a small question,.... So many answers (....most of which are probably incorrect :lol: :lol: )

Anyway,.... Altho your observations appear correct, they may be limited by your personal exposure (....in the large sense). 8) I've seen some industry stats that indicate your observation about age of most FFer's is correct. 8) However, it might just mean that becoming a FF later in life is more of an evolutionary thing and most of us (myself included) started as gear chuckers.... :? I disagree with your statement that getting into FF is not expensive, tho. When compared with what it costs to for other types of fishing, the cost is very high. The cost of the basic outfit is not the only one associated with getting into FF. Nearly everything beyond the rod/reel/line is an ongoing, expensive process; even if making some of the equipment, yourself. 8)

I'm sure that the industry has their demographic ID'ed and the market will continue to expand (....for example, saltwater FF) thru, at least, the next 20 years (if we do something to get water issues under control).... :D If we don't solve our water problems, all bets are off in this state. :(

[Mario]

I am 24 and have been fly fishing for about 4 years. I've been fortunate to have met some very accomplished fly fishermen over the last few years that have greatly influenced my fishing style. I grew up bait fishing with my dad and I had tons of fun. That planted the seed and as soon as I was exposed to fly fishing, I was addicted. Now I tie all of my flies, read fly fishing articles, and always take the opportunity to talk to my elder fly fishermen about the good ole days. I too see a lack of people my age fly fishing. Hopefully they are just late bloomers and will see the "light" eventually. For now, I feel lucky to have the opportunity to learn from many great fly fishermen on this message board and out on the water. Someday, kids may not even know what a fly fishermen is when they see them on the water. I guess its are job to do all we can to change that.

[bolden]

I am 17, and i have been flyfishing for about 4 years, and i have never
met anyone under the age of 21 (that is my brother) who flyfishes.
Unlike the other posts, i wouldn't mind if not many people got into
flyfishing, because that means less crowds. The one problem with that is
that i don't have anybody my age to fish with.

I think not many young people flyfish because its not social. I love being
alone, but a lot of my friends cant go more than an hour without speaking
to somebody. It is the age of cell phones and parties, and that is what
most younger people enjoy.

[Gregg Machel]

I've got my little boy (10 years old) fly fishing and he's way into it. He's got his own fly tying equipment (Regal Vise), ties his own flies, has two rods already (5wt & a 10' 6 wt. switch rod). He uses the switch rod for spey casting.

Here's a picture of Bob Jacklin working with Jonathan (my son) on Grayling Creek near West Yellowstone Montana:
http://www.kiene.com/gallery/albums/River-Fishing/100_1422.jpg

[NorCalFlyGuy]

^^^^^love this picture ^^^^^

Bob Jacklin is a living legend and it's so cool that you got to have him work with your son

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

As far as the fisheries go and fishing in general, I am optimistic.

When I was younger I feared that the fish would all go away over time but they are still here.

As far as the people go, we are getting some really good younger fly fishers which also makes me more optimistic about the future of the sport.

As many here know it can be a life long passion for many of us.

Look at Joe Shirshac who will get up early in the next few days and go fly fishing again at 83 years old and then he might end up on the same riffle on the Lower American River as Jason Hartwick who is in his 20s.

Pretty cool stuff.

[Steve Ekstrom]

What interests me is where the urge to fish comes from. My dad had absolutely no interest in fishing, yet I can remember staring into various waters at the age of 7 and looking for fish. All I could think about when I saw a body of water was whether it held fish or not. And if I thought it did, I'd deeply regret that I couldn't fish it. So my interest was not genetically passed down, unless it skipped a generation. Another example: I've introduced both of my daughters to fly fishing before they were teens - no interest whatsoever. And a friend has three daughters: one can't wait for the next fly fishing trip, and the other two think find the idea of giving up a day to fish is a total waste of time. Go figure.

As a teen I was fortunate to be in a Boy Scout troop where a few of the fathers were deep into fly fishing. I learned a little from them, got rid of my spinning equipment and never looked back.

So I think it's an unpredictable thing, who gets into fly fishing and who doesn't. I do believe it has little to do with direct influence. You either have the bug or you don't. The challenge is to find those youngsters who have it and really get them involved.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Good thinking Steve.

I always wonder about that same thing.

I think that some people have this little "fishing bug" down inside of them just waiting to jump out.

I wonder how many more anglers we would have if everyone was exposed to some good fishing?

How many women never get a chance to see how it would be for them?

My grandmother took me down to the pond William Land Park when I was very young and I bait fished while she read a book.

I heard stories of how my grandfather fished off the pier in Santa Cruz so when I got there I started fishing there too.

I have friends who did not fish at all have one of their children start fishing all on their own. How do you figure?

I use to read magazines on fishing when I was very young.

[Steve Ekstrom]

Me too, Bill. I had subscriptions to Field and Stream and Outdoor Life. It seemed like it took forever for the next month's issues to make it to the mailbox!

[Stevie J]

The question of how to get the next generation involved is a difficult one. Here are a few thoughts. I do not think that the cost of getting started is a major issue... one just needs to look at the cost of snowboard gear or a mountain bike for instance to see that money is not the problem for those that want to participate. I see the problem as being one of capturing the imagination. How do we get the word out that FF can be Fun, Challenging, Cool (SICK),Extreme, Adventuresome, and Healthy? And are we ready to accept TATS,Piercings and a foreign language into our world?
Flyfishing can be likened to a computer game with much, much more... It is a puzzle to be solved. Each level building on the previous one to fool smarter and smarter fish. It is a thinking game with many variables. It involves ALL of our senses. This should be attractive to Genext.
With the present state of instruction available at reasonable cost, it's not hard to get started with learning to cast, tie a few knots, I.D. some bugs and get out there. The down side is the lack of action... and that will turn some away... My son was ruined to flyfishing, by yearly trips to the oregon high desert country where he and his buddy would catch 40+ Smallies a day on spin gear and Rooster Tails. But he will return at some point... his friends are after me to teach them to FF now that they are older and see a bigger picture, and understand that there is more to life than instant gratification. I'm going to take them and show them the magic that comes when it all comes togather and the fish eats. I'm going to take them and watch as they learn patience and frustration and problem solving.
Whether we like it or not they will be the stewards of the sport some day.
So When you come in contact with a young person who shows interest, Take 'em before they change their mind. Encourage them in any way you can.
Support Mikey Weir and Jon Copeland of Fisheye video's, they are wonderful young men and able ambassadors for our sport. I am better for knowing them.
I would love to discuss this subject with any of like mind on how to introduce our sport to the next generation.
sj..............:::::::::::::::::>

[Gregg Machel]

Growing up in Wisconsin, fishing was a requriement for me as a kid. Of course I started with the hook/worm/bobber fishing with my grandmother. I later graduated to throwing lures of all sorts. I recall catching Northern Pike most of the time with a few Bass or Panfish thrown in the middle. I also ice fished, but never really had much luck there. We would drive our cars on the lake, park, setup the tip-ups, and usually just screw around, playing football on the ice waiting for the flags to go up. Of course, alcohol was involved! :twisted: That was in the early 80's back when I was in high school and slightly beyond.

After going in the Army, I had pretty much given up on any type of fishing, and it wasn't until a couple years ago that I got back into it, but this time it was all fly fishing. What got me into fly fishing this time was the movie "A River Runs Through It". I have watched this movie many times, and now I fast forward to all the good fishing scenes and show everyone who visits my house. I'm in it for the solitude, relaxation, and just getting away from technology for a short time. If I catch fish, that's a bonus.

My younger son (as mentioned above) is way into it, but my older son could care less. I really tried by getting him good equipment and getting him out there. I had to almost force him to fish the Madison up on Montana, imagine that! After giving it a try (or just trying to make me happy), it was obvious he wasn't into it. Oh well, he had the exposure, maybe when he gets older he will have the same desires to get away from it all and take it up on his own. I'll be there as a willing fishing buddy if and when that happens. Looking at the bright side of things, at least the younger son can move up to the older son's waders/boots and other clothing which is only used once, and of course I can always have an extra rod or two laying around as well!

[Gregg]

I think Stevie J has a good point going. I work in the snowboard industry and I see a trend toward younger people getting into snowboarding. I know, without a doubt, that there will be a large segment of the population which will be snowboarding for the next 10, 20, or even 50 years. I think this is the result of heavy marketing by the snowboard manufacturers. They portray an image that kids want to be aligned with. Also, snowboard product has a realtively short life span. I generally sell a new snowboard (most in the $400 range just for the board) to the same customer every other year. Graphics change, and product remains in demand. I would go as far as to say that snowboarding is 80% image and 20% functionality. Fly fishing, on the other hand, seems to be 80%+ functionality, and only a small segment of the market devoted to image(hence the lack of softgoods presence in most fly shops). Most rods are kept for decades, as are reels, waders, etc... I guess I'm curious about the future, and what is being done to ensure the manufacturers survival. I know some people will always fish, and some will get into the sport on their own, but are there enough of these types (like me) to keep the industry growing? I'm curious to hear from people who have been fishing for many years, and to see if they have noticed a decline in participation. It seems to me that lots of families aren't as motivated to engage in outdoor activities as there used to be, especially with kids who are more interested in playing video games all day instead of going outside. Hmmm...

[flygolf]

I think all of these posts have good points, when I started fly fishing back in the 70's there were very few people out there doing it (I would say less than there are today). I think the health of the sport from and equipment manufacturers view is very positive, there are more choices now than ever and todays society is all about keeping up with technology. As a kid I had one flyrod and two types of lines floating and sinking. Now I have 25 rods 15 reels and over 40 different types of lines and I'm still looking at all the new stuff thats out (funny thing is I can only fish with one of each at a time). I've seen a big increase in flyfishing over just the last 10 years fishing the American, that increase may not be limited to people in the younger age group but I don't particularly think the manufacturers care nor probably target that segment anyway.

Bill probably has the best veiw being in the industry and all, has Kienes business increased or decreased? Also remember 10 yrs. ago Kienes was really the only game in town now there is some competition.

[Darian]

After reading/considering all of the posts, I can't help thinking that, in our usual zeal, we have over analyzed this in relation to how our kids view FF/us..... Most kids aren't into fly fishing because of the image they have of us and what it takes to be a FF.... I hope this doesn't hurt anyones feelings but most of us appear long-winded and overly self important; myself included). :roll: :roll:

Make something fun (....for a kid) and they'll usually respond positively. :D :D

I can't think of anything more boring for a youngster than to have his/her parent try to instill all of the knowledge we've acquired in them before they're ready to take it in. :( :( Only time will tell when that event occurs..... :? As an example, I tried for years to interest my soin in FF by going to ponds for Bluegill, etc., and had a friend who was trying to do the same with his son. On one trip we traded sons and found, to our surprise :shock: , that each one listened/caught fish and thoroughly enjoyed themselves.... Neither of us could accomplish that before. :? :oops:

Slow down guys and smell the roses.... Yours and others kids'll join you when they're ready.... 8) 8) 8)

[MSP]

Gregg I believe that the ratio of young flyfishers and older flyfishers pretty much always remains the same. It usually takes a little longer in life for people to come to appreciate fly fishing and its rewards. Now a days there are so many things that are available to the younger crowd that fly fishing can't compete with. You just keep at it and intoduce your buddies when they are ready and things will all work out :D

[sculpin]

I have to go along with MSP. In my local area here on the Rogue I don't see any problem with the lack of fly fishermen. Actually with all the Baby Boomers retireing and moving here I think 3/4 of them have taken up fly fishing. I would love to wory about a lack of fishermen, fly or gear in my life time. :D

[mems]

Aloha, good topic. I have helped my son to learn to fly fish and he enjoys the time we spend together on the water. He likes trout and has gotten better at salt water, but it has been more difficult to get him onto fish. He recently caught a nenue on a 6wt and did really well. I think trout are easier to learn on because of the number of fish you catch and that is really where the fun is.
I have a friend I go off-shore with. We were out one day with his son and another boy of the same age, 12 years old. I got a 20lb ahi on a 12 wt, and they were very excited about the bend in the rod, and were blown away when the ahi took off for the deep when he saw a net put in the water to land him. The 12 wt blew up in pieces, and the boys were hooked. Now they both have 8wt's and have been praticing casting in the yard. Funny thing, my friend has a hard time getting his boy into spin fishing, but now he is head over heels into fly fishing. My friend just shakes his head.
To me the fun is getting the novice on a fish. And if he gets into one so big that he can't bring it in, and it breaks him off, then he is hooked, he will be back for more. Fly fishing is all about challenge, and that is something for only the ones looking for something more.
Will there be more fly fisherman, sure. Will some come and go, sure. Will some love it like we do, sure. You can't give the fire to others, passion is something that must come from within. I coach and teach and this is true in both fields. Some people just have the fever, others just look to pass their time. For me I am just trying to make the opportunity available to the people who live here in Hawaii. I think for most fisherman we evolve into fly fishermen. Mems.

[Gregg]

I got into fly fishing to do something completely different. Something more mellow, quieter, where I could chill out and just have fun. Maybe that will be the same allure for the upcoming generation. Everything moves so fast these days (and I'm sure the older crowd will agree...). Perhaps that will be enough to get younger people into it...

[Ed Wahl]

I don't think there's anything to worry about. This sport has been around for a long time and has been mainly an adults game. Not that many kids get to have the fishing bug, but of the ones that do a certain percentage will eventually find their way to flyfishing with or without someone to help them. I grew up fishing in the midwest, started with worms, then tried lures when I was a bit older and needing more challenge.If I had remained in Illinois I would probably still be using lures for bass and pike. It's the secret wish of fishing kids in the midwest to go west and try fly fishing for trout, outdoor life and field and stream are their bibles. Don't worry about the future of the sport, that pipeline is still flowing. It is up to us to look after the waters though, when those midwestern kids grow up and come out here,( I've kicked a few into the pipe myself), they're gonna be mad if we have'nt saved 'em some quality water and fish to learn on.

[Digger]

As for myself, I fished with the old man as a kid, tossing bait in reservoirs. As I got older, he took me stream fishing and eventually bigger rivers. Got away from all that when a career called, and all I saw was concrete and glass for years. A friend talked me into trying fly fishing when I turned 40, and that was it for me. There are many was for us to get into fly fishing, and for parents to expose their young is obviously the primary but not the only path.

Everything I see and read indicates 'fly' fishing is the largest growing facet of fishing in general. What I would like to see a bit more in our sport, is the fairer sex getting more into it. Currently 2/3 to 3/4 of anglers are male, and if expansion of the sport in the future is what this thread is about, that's the biggest untapped demographic this industry should target.

Another aspect is the opportunity for success. Even though I love 'being out there', catch or no catch, many anglers motivation is the availability to actually catch fish. As the locations become fewer, and the fish also dwindle, there will be those whose motivation or ability drops off as well.

Someone mentioned cost, and I must agree with Darian, fly fishing is a bit on the costly side in comparison to the other means. Most other anglers view us as elitist snobs of the sport with thousands of $$$ of rods, reels and all sorts of gear as we drive up in our Lincoln Navigator, chewing on Cohibas. When you look at some of the exotic locations and 1st class lodges for fishing retreats, I seldom see bait chuckers out there.

[PaulC]

I agree with Ed. Every year in the eastside I see kids out there fishing...mostly spinner but they're still out there.
Conservation of the resource is probably more of a concern for the future. I can't help but think when I'm out there how many of these resources that we enjoy today will still be around for the next generation.
The fight over keeping the wild trout section of piru open is one example close to home. There are plenty others across the state. All the more reason to get involved in conservation organizations at the donation level at least.

As far as getting kids into fly fishing, I think trying to be an ambassador of the sport is one thing we can all do.
For example, I was out at Rock Creek a year ago and there was a small kid out there fishing with his Dad on spin gear.
He commented on how I was catching fish on a small cream mayfly and they couldn't get a bite.
I hooked up the kid with a bubble rig and a handful of cream mayflies to try. He immediately got into a fish.
Before you knew it dad and son were off to the store to get another bubble.
Its not flyfishing, granted, but a nudge in that direction. The look on the kids face was priceless...made my day.
Hence the reason I usually have a small bubble in my vest when I'm out on the eastside.

-Paul

[Adam Grace]

Good idea Paul!

Nice work.

Gregg, you have started a nice thread!

I don't ponder such things too much.

I am torn between advancing the sport or keeing it more specialized. I don't want flyfishing to become as commercialized as professional or recreational bass fishing, that's some crazy stuff.

Many fly fishers are retired, and many retired ff's are baby boomers. What will happen when that huge population stops fishing due to health or lack there of? It's not necessary for ff's to start early/young, although I think that ff for me at 16 kept me out of trouble and happy. If we all act as ff embassadors the sport will be fine. Look at the history, I don't think it's going anywhere.

Great question Gregg, I'm impressed with all of the posts on this thread.

This board is fun.

[Gregg]

Definitley good points all around. I do agree that fly fishing is more of a refined art, and is probably more appreciated with age. I guess the root of my question has more to do with the general lack of interest in the "true" outdoor activities in today's youth. Maybe I just don't see it in my area though. I was a scout as a kid, as were several of my friends. Now I deal with kids all day long, and all I ever hear them talk about is a new video game, or a new car, etc... I think the generation that is reaching retirement age right now will probably swell the sport, but I hope the momentum keeps going. I'm an econ. major at USF so I find myself wondering about these types of things all the time. Demand, demographics, wage rates, etc... I love how specialized fly fishing is. I hope there will continue to be a passion for the sport in the younger generations so we will keep seeing improvements in not only equipment, but in ecological management as well.