Upper Rogue River

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I just talked with Gary Anderson and he said it was slow for those swing flies because the water was so cold now.

I heard from guide Keith Kaneko that you could catch fish with the indicator system and smaller flies than normal.

[sculpin]

Bill
All you stated is true. Especially the part about smaller flies.

Mark

[Jasonh]

I do not totally agree with people when they say they cant catch on the swing when the water gets cold. If that were the case, the fishing in BC would be no good for most of the season. I think most people just dont have the confidence to fish on the swing when the water cools because of what they hear and the facet that a majority of people prefer to nymph for steelhead. I had one of my best days ever steelhead fishing on the trinity in water of 38 degrees in January swinging black leeches and green butt silver hiltons. I think i went 6 for 9 that day. While it might not be as effective it can be done. I am lookng forward to my trip on the rogue nov 7,8, 9 and plan on mostly swinging flies. We'll see what happens.

Jason Hartwick

[sculpin]

Jason
Perhaps we can get together one of the days you are up here. I'll send you a PM.

Mark

[jbird]

Jason.
What you stated is true, to an extent. This is purely based on observation of rogue summer steelhead. The summer fish enter a river system (gold beach) that is relatively warm. and they are coming from an ocean that is anywhere from the low 50's to perhaps low 60's. Their motabolism is accustomed to those temps. By october/november, a pretty good prcentage of the fish have been in the river a while and when the water gets really low and clear it only takes 1 really cold night to drastically drop the h2o temp. If the temps stay low, the fish that have been in the river a while get really lethargic. But you might have some late running fish that have just arrived that may have an adjusted motabolism from travelling the whole distance in cold water. They make up a small percentage of the fish population tho. So, yes, you can hookup on the swing, but its far and away an inferior method for catching good numbers of fish. I know some people frown on the "numbers" issue. but when your visiting a river thats well known for kicking out a lot of fish, you dont want to leave feeling like you just got a lot of casting practice...hint, nudge, know what i mean?.... Now if you luck into a scenario where weve just recieved a warm rain and the river has come up and is falling while your here...and most importantly...WARM, like in the low to mid 50's, Your chances will increase on the swing. but the nymphers will still be outfishing you 5-1....at least.

Winter steelhead are a completely different critter. I've already gone on long enough, I wont bore you with them. :o

I will finish with this. If you want guaranteed success and to see rogue water that few anglers (including locals) ever see, take up Sculpin on his offer. You are guaranteed to leave with a new friend as well.

Jay

[Jasonh]

Jbird, i agree with your post. The nymphers will definately outfish the swingers 5-1 on the rogue and most rivers for that matter. I just really enjoy catching them on the swing. It is kind of a challenge and thats what i really get a kick out of. I am just anxious to get up to the rogue next week and i hope the weather is ok. This is about the only week this year i get to fish real hard and i hope the weather is decent and i get to hook into a few fish. Time is passing way to slow!

Jason Hartwick

[David Lee]

Good hunting , Jason !!

I've seen your flies , they will do well .

Stay dry :!:

David

[jbird]

Jason

To maximize your chances with the swinging technique, bring a versitip line. these fish are bottom huggers and youve gotta take the fly to them. Most importantly, when your fly is on the bottom you can get a much slower swing/presentation. If the water is cold, fish will not zip across the current to take anything. Make sure you bring your camera :wink: Theres an outside chance my job will release its death grip on me and I'll be able to get out during the time your here. If you fish with Sculpin, perhaps the 3 of us can give it a whirl.

J

[Jasonh]

Jbird, i plan on bringing up a couple of spey rods with interchangeable tips to fish at different depths. Since the water is cold, i figure i will be making a lot of mends to slow down the swing. I will definately bring my camera and take many photos as it is a beautiful place. I cant wait.

Jason Hartwick

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Great Jason,

I am happy to see that you are also more interested in how you fish than just catching more fish.

Another young friend, Mark Godwin, is on the path of swinging flies for Steelhead and Salmon.

I know that the top local guides in these Nor Cal Valley rivers with spawning salmon and hatchery fish will need to indicator fish if they want to catch much with their customers. That is the way it has to be.

I think that indicator fishing is great and very effective too but I don't need to just catch fish. I want to fish for them my way, which porbably is not too effective right now because I spend more time talking about fishing than actually fishing.

Swinging unweighted flies and dry flies on a floating line is my favorite way to fish for Steelhead. That means I have to fish in the summer and early fall mostly with the sun off the water. Very limited. I don't get to go much so I can pull this off if I plan for it.

I already have reservations for a jet boat guide and lodging on the lower Klamath on September 24, 2006. Woopee...............

[Jasonh]

Bill, i just spoke with photographer and fellow steelhead "nut" Jeff Bright and he told me that he has been hooking some nice fish on the trinity swinging wet flies on floating lines and the occasional fish on a skater. I hope that holds up for one more week until i get there. If not, looks like i will be swinging tips on the spey rod!

Jason Hartwick

[bubzilla]

The only thing I would add to the discussion of metabolism and the Upper Rogue is that cold water is not the only factor affecting the efficacy of traditional presentations there. In fact, I’m not sure it’s even the most important factor–although obviously it is a major issue. Lots of places have cold water, and in fact hooking fish with traditional methods in water temperatures below 40 degrees (far cooler than the Upper Rogue through most of the fall) is common in many places. The fact is that fish in waters much colder do readily come to swung flies in both Washington and B.C.

There is a problem with making a comparison between those rivers and the Upper Rogue, however, and it has far more to do with the structure of the rivers themselves, the fish that enter those systems and their proximity to saltwater, and other factors like overall fishing pressure than with water temperature. Most of the great fisheries where people are successful with traditional methods nearly regardless of water temperature are fairly low gradient with extensive stretches of even flow hydraulics that lend themselves to traditional presentations. They are also coastal fisheries in a much truer sense than the Upper Rogue with fish that have not generally traveled inland over 100 miles or spent months in freshwater. They are also generally fisheries where the same fish don’t see several months of nearly incredible amounts of fishing pressure. There’s a reason many of the guides on the Upper Rogue have gone to tiny point flies and subdued droppers after all, and it has far more to do with the impact of fishing pressure than I think most realize.

That said, there are a few guides now making concerted efforts to swing fish the Rogue, e.g., Scott Howell, John Hazlett–although not always the upper river. And they are successful at it. At least one of the employees at the shop in Ashland, Evan, is a traditional methods kind of guy, and he’d be a great source of information on where to head on the Rogue to fish that way. You might want to stop by there on your way up or give them a call before you come.

It’s a mistake, however, to assume that traditional methods are not widely employed on the Upper Rogue simply because there is a bias against them, or that those who fish the river are not familiar with those techniques, or that most are just interested in numbers, or that many lack confidence in traditional methods generally. There are simply a number of things about the upper river that make it less conducive to traditional methods. That is not true of the entire Rogue, but it is generally true of the Upper Rogue after mid-September. The picture below is of a fish caught on the swing (one of a couple that day and MANY that season) on the Rogue–just not the Upper Rogue.

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL596/2374697/7099839/117521541.jpg