Steelhead the Size of Salmon?

[Tony Buzolich]

Okey, lets see how good you guys are.

This fish was caught just a couple of days ago. Note the bright shiney color fresh from the sea. Note the white mouth. Look closer and you'll see a size #6 Freight Train stuck in this fish's jaw.

Care to guess where this sea-run hen was taken? The Eel?,The Mad, The Klamath? How about the Garcia or the Gualala?

With this white mouth, and no spawning colors to help you identify her, what do you think she is? A steelhead?, or a Salmon?

In either case, this was one very memorable fish.

Enjoy, TONY
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/buzolich/FeatherFlyHeademail.jpg

[David Lee]

Feather river Coho Salmon ????????

David :D

[Hairstacker]

My guess, Feather River Steelhead.

[Katz]

I got one just like that last year at the Palm riffle on the Feather on a GloBug. Thought mine was a Salmon?

Feather River Salmon is my guess!

Katz

[flygolf]

Definitely a salmon. Black around the teeth and those black spots on back don't look like steelhead. One very clean salmon.

[jbird]

That fish is without a doubt a chinook salmon. There is some blackish hue along the gum line. The profile of the head is chinook. The gums of a coho and a steelhead are PURE white. At a quick glance it might pass for a coho. but I'd put my bottom dollar on calling it a king. It doesnt look like any steelhead I've ever seen, again the profile of the head and the small eye are as much of a giveaway as the hint of gray/black along the gumline.
absolutely gorgeous fish! How big was it?

Jbird

[sculpin]

I would call it a King.

[Adam Grace]

Fresh salmon!

[Darian]

Well guys,.... That fish looks a lot like the Silver (Coho) I used to catch over at the coast many years ago. 8) 8) Our rule of thumb was that Kings had all black interiors in the mouths and Coho had black gum lines. Also, the picture doesn't show enough to be able to tell but spots are not as numerous on Coho and do not appear on the lower lobe of the tail as they do on Kings..... 8)

The current DFG regs for Freshwater on an unnumbered page titled: Anadromous Fish Identificaton confirms the color of the gums in a Silver are Black but the rest of the mouth is not.... 8)

My vote is that it's a Silver Salmon. 8) 8)

What a great fish. Glad to see they're still around.... :D :D :D

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I think a King Salmon has a dark mouth.

I think Silver Salmon are suppose to have dark gums right along the teeth?

They are working on bringing back Silvers in other CA rivers now?

[Adam Grace]

Do any salmon have dark mouths while they are living in the ocean?

If not that could be a very fresh King.

I can't remember hearing of any Coho's/Silver Salmon up the Feather, have any of you?

[Darian]

To the best of my knowledge, Salmon have dark mouths whereever they are (fresh or salt water). I've caught quite a few of both Kings and Silvers a very short distance (100 yards or less) from the ocean and all of them had the characteristic dark places in their mouths.... 8) 8)

[David Lee]

So .... we all agree , its a Coho .

What do I win ??? :P :twisted:

By the way , Adam ..... not all Salmon return to their natal streams - I see a few PINK (Humpys) Salmon in the American every few years .....

The Game Warden told me they get 'lost' sometimes , and come up here w/ other Salmon schools .

Lefty Lee :lol:

[k.hanley]

Kinda tricky without seeing the whole fish...but here's my guess...

Young bright hen chinook salmon.
The ticket is the "black gums at the base of the teeth." The older the fish becomes, the mouth will become darker as well.

If it were a coho the gums would be white at the base of the teeth. But what the heck... field ID's aren't always textbook easy. Now if we could have a look at her back then it's a slam dunk (spase well defined spots = coho, while large irregular shaped spots or blotches = chinook)

Anyway that's my 2 cents. It's sure a beautiful catch though! :D
Cheers, Ken

[Mik]

Black gums=Salmon

I hope it was caught on the American.

[Tony Buzolich]

Boy, you guys are good.

David, I think you said Silver first and this got me to thinking. I looked up details of both King and Silver and Ken brought up another item about the spots.

Geez, now I'm confused. This could go the either way.

The spots are well defined and spaced widely apart. The tail in two other pictures shows no spots. One of the definition identities is a darkening around the gums on the silver but not in the mouth.

The only other thing I couldn't clearly count were the number of rays on the anal fine. I think 14. Silvers have 13-16, Kings have 13-19.

Yes, this is one of my Feather River salmon. Now is this just a very bright young hen, or did I in fact take a silver? :(
TONY

[jbird]

Tony

Its kinda tough to tell without seeing the whole fish. I have seen a LOT of coho and a good number of kings to boot. I havnt seen a coho that looks quite like that fish. I'm not saying its not. It looks like a good many of ocean bright, smallish chinook hens I've seen. One thing Ive noticed about coho over the years is they kipe very, very quickly upon entering freshwater. Theyll even start to transform in the estuary if they hang around a while before heading to fresh. Even the hens. Ive caught ocean bright coho hens within a few miles of the estuary and they were already kiped to the point of looking like a buck. I have tagged a few finclipped fish that I was certain were bucks because of the huge hooked jaw. Until I saw the skeins of egg inside. Also chinook have those beety little eyes...like their up to no good. lol

I'm sure this coho is a buck, but look at the kipe on that sucker, This fish was caught in saltwater a couple miles from any river.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/jbird35/IM_A0003.jpg

J

[Tony Buzolich]

Hi Jay,

Definitely a beautiful fish and with a nose like that I'd never hestitate to call this one a male. Over-all though, males develop the largest kipe in almost all of the species be that a chinook, a chum ,a coho, or a sockeye.
And I think that as the male fish ages and matures it develops an even larger and more pronounced kipe. I don't believe a young male develops as large a snoot.

Now, Do females develop kipes? I've never seen one on a female chinook and I haven't caught enough of the others to make that judgement.

I would also say the fish in question was young though fully mature enough to spawn.

I guess we'd need a biologist to tell us for sure but it has been fun hearing what you guys come up with as identifying marks.
TONY

[jbird]

Tony

I agree 100% with everything you said. Ive never seen a chnook hen with kipe at any stage of its life. I have seen a lot of small chinook jacks that dont kipe either. They are dificult to discern gender. I have heard all jacks are males. Hence the term Jack. I dont know for sure. Its hard to say from your photo how big the fish is, judging from the hand in the picture, it would be a pretty good size silver or a small chinook. I think a silver of that size would be showing some sign of transformation of its beak whatever the gender if it was a river caught fish.

I think for the sake of this thread and all the input that its attracted. I am going to call that fish the first ever photograghed chinoho..kinda like a jackalope. :-)

It is indeed a beaut, and well worth all the attention. :wink:

jbird

[Darian]

Hmmmmm,.... A "Chinoho",.... a doppleganger :?: , an interloper :? , a hybrid secretly developed by the combined forces of the Cal/Ore F&G Dept's for the sole purpose of being caught and thereby generating conversation about it's identification on Fly Fishing Bulletin Boards. 8)

Who knows what secrets are locked in the hearts of these biological conspiricists from the DFG :?: :?: .... And the future they have planned for us.... :shock: :shock:

Rancid Crabtree might :wink: :wink: Or, maybe Galen Geller 8) 8)

[Tony Buzolich]

:lol: LOVE IT ! Chinoho it shall be.
TONY

[David Lee]

And , at the end of the day ..... a VERY nice fish !!

Keep 'em comin' , Tony .

David

[Frank Alessio]

Interesting comment Darian..... For the most part I can not remember Calif. Dept. of Fish and Game Doing anythig inovative for the Sportsman, much less doing anything at all untill it is toooooo late.... Sorry but true... Frank

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I heard a few years back that the Feds were trying to reclassify the Steelhead (ocean going Rainbow Trout) from a trout to a salmon so they could commercially take them.

I am not sure if that is totally factual but sounds pretty sad.

[Darian]

Hi Frank,.... Not sure all of the blame for that lies with DFG. I'd guess DFG is about one of the most politicized departments of the state. Their budget is easy to cut and difficult to restore.... The appointees at the Board are political hacks or personal friends of same. :( :(

I'm sure that individuals in the Department are motivated to do the best job they can and work very hard (at least my friends who work there are). Unfortunately, working anywhere in state service is frustrating, at best, nowadays. :? :? :?

I know the department is better off now, internally, then it was during the 80's/90's when it was being critized, openly, in the papers for lack of a credible accounting system and many other shortcomings (such as favoritism). My personal experience with them is that they're very open to communication/participation from sportsman/groups and I'd like to think they're better at what they do than in the past. 8) 8)

All in all, innovation may not be what they're about.... :? :?

[Hairstacker]

Yeah, that's it, I was calling it a steelhead from a Fed perspective. . . . :oops: :lol:

[Frank Alessio]

Darian...... I like your attitude..... I would like to see someone with your insight running things for a while...... Frank

[Darian]

:shock: :shock: Thanks for the compliment Frank but I'm sure that'd be a little too scary, even for me. :lol: :lol: :lol: