Large arbor/wide arbor reels

[The Bone]

I am very confused. This is more about pride and a very civilized disagreement I had with a person about this subject. What is the purpose of a large arbor/wide arbor reel? It seems to me like the phrase "large" arbor means something different than "wide" arbor. What is the arbor? It is simply the axel that one winds the line onto? Or is it the whole spool itself? Is one of the advantages that the line lays flatter and is less likely to "slip" when you are reeling in a fish? All of the literature to me is confusing!! :o

[Tony Buzolich]

I think this "large arbor " thing is confusing as well. It simply refers to the diameter of the coil of line. Width doesn't change diameter.

I also think this started as a means of saving weight. By opening up the center of a spool, you reduce backing. By reducing backing, you've reduced weight.

But, at the same time, you've reduce your total line capcity.

Consider an Abel #3N and an Abel Super #6. Both are built on exactly the same frame. Both interchange equally with each other.

The #3N has a line capacity of 275 yds.of 20#backing with a size 7 line.
The Super #6 has a line capacity of 110yds. of 20# baclking with a size 7 line.

That is a difference of 165 yards of backing that has been given up by using the "large arbor" spool.

Well yes, maybe I don't need that much backing? Maybe I saved a little weight also?

But, what about when you DO need that extra backing? Then what? Go chase a fast running fish and try to catch up?

Not me. I like a full spool,,,,, with LOTS of backing.

I repeat,,,,, The diameter of the spool is the same on either full reel.

:? Can you tell I like Abel Big Games?
TONY

[Darian]

Hey Bone,.... I'm not settled on which I prefer but agree with what Tony says.... 8) 8) I would add that I believe Tony is referring to the outside diameter of the spool in making his points. One advantage of the large arbor is that the inside diameter of the spool is larger than on the standard spool. This means that when you're reeling in line, you're recovering the line at a higher rate per turn of the handle than on the standard spool. Of course, this only applies when you've got a lot of line out. Near the point where the spools are equally full of line, there's very little difference.

The second advantage is that with a large arbor spool, the drag remains relatively unchanged over the course of fighting a fish. Drag tends to become tighter as the amount of line on your spool is pulled out reducing the outside diameter of the remaining line. As this occurs, mechanical advantage decreases making it more difficult to strip off line :shock: (Thus, tightening the drag). Of course with more line on the spool, maybe the opportunity for this to occur is reduced.... :? :?

Hope I explained it OK. Not an expert here.... It just seemed to make sense when I read it. I, too, am a fan of Able Fly reels. 8) 8)

[Adam Grace]

"large arbor" is the diameter of the smallest capacity of the spool.

"Wide" arbor is not a common term, i would guess that it means the actuall width of the spool not the diameter.

[Hairstacker]

Bone, you got it right, the "arbor" is the "axel" you tie your backing on to. I believe Darian explained the advantages of true larger arbor reels really well and got it exactly right with his two points: faster retrieve ratio and more constant drag. The trade-off is lesser backing line capacity.

On a "true" large arbor reel, not only is the arbor (the part you tie your backing on to) significantly larger in diameter, but the entire spool is a larger diameter as well. A very good example is the Orvis Large Arbor Battenkill. If you compare the Large Arbor Battenkill model to the standard Battenkill model, you will see that the arbor on the Large Arbor Battenkill is much, much bigger in diameter and the entire spool is a much larger diameter. Even by just looking at the pictures on the Orvis website (www.orvis.com), you will see what I'm talking about. The two Battenkill reel models (large arbor and standard) bear no resemblance in design (or appearance, for that matter) to one another.

I believe "wide arbor" is simply referring to those reels that have a longer arbor so that the spool is wider. The main purpose I believe is to increase the backing capacity of the reel. For example, your typical 5/6 weight reel typically holds 100 yards or so of backing or less. But your typical 8/9 weight reel typically holds 200 yards of backing or more. The reel manufacturers achieve this jump in backing capacity by not only making the reel diameter larger but also by making the spool wider by extending the length of the arbor.

In those cases where the manufacturer simply placed a larger arbor on the same size spool (i.e., the overall reel diameter is unchanged), you don't really have a true "large arbor reel" in the sense of getting the touted advantages of a large arbor reel -- you get none of the advantages (faster retrieve, more constant drag) but you still get the main disadvantage (less backing line capacity). If I recall correctly, Teton Reels has done this as well -- their standard and large arbor spools are interchangeable on the same reel and have the same overall dimensions. In these cases where the overall spool diameter is the same, it makes no sense to me to go with the "large arbor" spool for the reasons cited. Indeed, I believe it is these types of reels, including the Abel Super #6 among others, that cause confusion among those who are trying to understand what "large arbor" reels are really all about. Again, I recommend you carefully study the picture of the Orvis Large Arbor Battenkill -- notice that the part you tie your backing on to is held out significantly away from the center of the reel and that the entire reel is significantly larger in diameter -- a "true" large arbor reel. By the way, I love Abels, I treasure my Teton, and I adore all my Battenkills, so please do not interpret this as a knock or endorsement of any of these manufacturers.

[The Bone]

calls theirs a "wide" arbor. Maybe I'm loony, but as I remember it, part of the reason for a "wide" arbor reel is supposed to be that when one is reeling a fish in, on the reel, the line wraps more evenly on the axel (arbor) and you have less change of the line "fouling" in the spool which is more prevalent with a "narrow" arbor reel. Did I make this up one night while I was dreaming about trout? I have not heard anyone say that this is an advantage.

[Rick J]

most manufacturers of LA reels mention that to gain backing capcity you need to go wider if you go larger as you are losing alot of capacity due to the large arbor. I am pretty sure that is the main reason for going wide arbor as others have said. A wide arbor can actually make it more difficult if you are not careful when winding line on as it can build up on one side and then slip down and caue things to bind. A narrow arbor does not allow as much a chance of build up on one side. So when reeling in on a wide arbor you need to really make sure you move the line back and forth to build up evenly.

[Hairstacker]

Bone, it could be that when you first load the reel with backing, a wide arbor would allow you to criss-cross the backing at more of an angle, thus reducing the chance of the backing biting into itself and getting stuck between wraps. But as Rick said, during the actual fight with a fish when you may be trying to recover line as rapidly as possible, I've always thought you would be safer with a narrower arbor, where there's less chance of line buiilding up in one spot and sliding, so to speak. For this reason, I've always preferred narrow spools myself. But, I haven't actually tested the two side by side, so I could be all wet on this. Besides, once I put backing on my reels, I typically never see it again until I decide to change fly lines, ha. :oops:

[Rick J]

Mike - it is time you planned a trip to the tropics for some bone fish action so you can test to the fullest your beliefs because I gurantee you will see your backing. Of course you will need to purchase both a narrow arbor and wide arbor reel for this testing!!!

[The Bone]

I am hearing people say that line will wrap more evenly on a narrow arbor. To me this is counterintuitive. With a wide arbor, the fly line (I'm not talking about the backing, but the line itself) will criss cross evenly and lay flat. This is assuming you are doing a less than perfect job of "thumbing or fingering" your line onto the spool as you reel in. On a narrower spool, the line as it criss crosses will "raise" up off of the line below it into more peaks and valleys, and the line can then "slip" down off of the side of the built up line more easily. I swear I am not inventing this. Someone else out there must have heard the same thing! :oops:

[Darian]

Hey Bone,..... I believe you're hearing others correctly.... There's a lot of personal preference involved in reel choices and most of it based on personal experience. As to backing/line build-up on one type spool vs the other, I would say that there is a greater opportunity for backing to dig into itself thru build-up/sliding on the spool than with a fly line. 8) 8)

In casting, most of the line is stripped from the spool. However, backing is, as Mike suggested, rarely seen unless a large predator is on the other end of your line :shock: :shock: and you're retrieving without being able to pay much attention to how the line is put back on the spool. Under that circumstance, a narrow spool will not have as much tendency to build-up and slide accross before naturally moving to the other side of the spool. 8) 8) Still possible but not as likely. 8) Of course, it will always occur when you're tied up to a very large, fast moving and hostile seagoing predator and you're standing there trying to figure out if that "thing" is going to try to take the rod away and beat you with it.... :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There is more opportunity for backing to build-up and slide across to the other side of the spool while using a wide arbor spool. :? :? If you're using shooting heads, there is almost no opportunity for the line to cause a problem as they will almost always be outside of the tip top on the rod. 8) 8)

[jbird]

I have both types of reels and sometimes use them both on the same day. The reasons I like the L/A reels is in cold weather, when the line memory on a standard arbor takes forever to smooth out, Its rarely a factor at all on my L/A's. The line retrieval rate is sharply different. I have been careful when purchasing large arbor reels to make sure they hold plenty of backing. Many times they dont hold nearly as much as advertised. I learned this when I ordered a #7/8 L/A reel and when I first spooled on my WF, F #8 flyline to see how much backing I could add, I couldnt add any, the flyline alone barely fit on the reel. There are some large arbor reels that do hold a ton of backing, there are some that DEFINITELY dont.

J

[Hairstacker]

J, I hear ya about the stated backing capacities. I've got one large arbor reel rated for 8/9 wt. line that took a WF-9-F line and all of about 30 yards of gel-spun backing. I would have been much better off with their 10/11 wt. model. I'm getting the impression that that's typical of large arbor reels. 'Course, having said that, I don't think I've ever bought a reel that held as much backing as the manufacturer claimed. They must be basing their specs on an 82' fly line or something. :?

[Adam Grace]

Most of the reel companies over exagerate the capaity for backing by about 10% That is the same for starndard arbor reels and large arbor. The better reel companies out there, the top three in my opinion, like Ross, Galvan, Waterwokrs all have very close and decent capacities on the spools themselves. I true large arboer like the Waterworks have great backing capacity because they severely widen the spools.

[Digger]

Darin is correct with his 1st post.
There is also another minor factor - line coiling (memory) will be less, the larger the arbor is, and maybe that's not much of an issue with modern line.
Primarily I would say that larger arbors help protect the tippet on hard running fish. This is done by reducing the rpm of the spool as the fish runs with your line. Even if the fish is swimming at a constant speed, your spool will increase its rpm as the line capacity diminishes. This in turn creates more line tension, and what is the weakest link in your line?