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SullyTM
09-06-2005, 11:47 AM
Howdy...I'm trying to achieve a backward sweep of the hackle feather(say a 45 degree angle) and have had NO luck. Perhaps I'm using the wrong hackle feather ](*,) I have a pack of Whiting Farms Bugger feathers and they range in size from a #12 at the tipof the feather to #4 at the butt end. My palmering ends up more straight up and down which makes me think I need to use a differnet feather. HELP :!: Gracias. Thom

Hairstacker
09-06-2005, 11:59 AM
Thom, well, I do get a backward-sweep on mine, although I'm not sure it's a full 45 degrees. What I do is tie in the feather by the tip with the concave side facing down. I do a full wrap at the tail tie-in point and then proceed to palmer up the body. I do another full wrap at the head before tying off. I try to limit the number of hackle wraps -- on a size 6 hook, I end up with no more than 5 wraps of hackle. If tying the feather in concave side facing down and limiting the number of wraps doesn't do the trick, then maybe you do need a different feather? I tend to use cheap, webby saddle feathers -- I think they tend to be less stiff than the Whiting Bugger Pack feathers, although they don't tend to come in as many smaller hackle barb sizes as the Whiting stuff.

Jgoding
09-06-2005, 12:11 PM
Hey Thom,

Like Mike says, keep the shiny side forward or the dull side back (kind of like shall I pick you up at 7:45 or quarter to 8??.... :shock: ) This should give you the swept back look for the most part. If this is what you are doing then try using a different hackle and see what happens.... I have some bugger packs and they are just saddle patches so will see how they work for me.

Jeff

SullyTM
09-06-2005, 02:29 PM
Mike and Jeff...I'm on it. I'll let ya know how it turns out. Thanks. Thom

Darian
09-06-2005, 03:15 PM
Hi Thom,.... I've tried about every way there is to palmer hackle a fly and finally settled on the method promoted by Andy Puyans. 8) 8)

Start by preparing the butt of the hackle by stripping off the fluff and a few hackle fibres on the top side (the convex side. You know, the one that'll be facing the front of the fly :roll: )

1. After tying in the tail, body and ribbing materials, tie in the hackle by the butt (at the front of the fly).

2. Take as many turns as you want at the front and proceed to palmer the hackle to the front of the body.

3. Catch the tip of the hackle with the ribbing material with two close turns and proceed to wind the ribbing forward thru the hackle (in the opposite direction that the hackle was wound.

4. Tie off at the head with the thread, trim the ribbing and whip finish the head.

5. Trim the excess tip of the hackle (at the rear) if desired.

This method is easy and quick. The hackle always tilts and tapers towards the rear of the body. Plus, the ribbing binds/protects the hackle.... 8) 8) :D :D

Bob Scheidt
09-06-2005, 08:20 PM
You could try to fold the hackle before you tie it in. I have only tried this a few times but here goes.

Make a slit in stiff cardboard or a piece of sturdy foam, razor blade or scissors is fine. Hold the feather with one hand by the butt end and the tip end with the other hand. Shiny side of the feather toward the slit. Slide the feather in the slit and pull down toward the tip. You can then remove the feather and stroke the fibers together and stroke down toward the butt end of the feather. Then slde it in the strip again. This should fold the feather, then tie it in and tie the fly. It is easier to do than to write how to do it. You might get that 45 degrees you're after.

Bob Scheidt

Adam Grace
09-06-2005, 10:36 PM
I used to struggle with the same problem until Jeff Putnam taught me how to tie the feather in at the front of the fly.

The first step is to tie whatever proper diameter of wire at the back end of the fly where you want the palmering to stop.

Then wrap your body.

Tie in the feather at the front of the fly butt first where you want the feather to begin the palmering.

Next you tie in the stem after stripping off a little bit of barbs so the you are only tying in the stem. Tie in the feather with the dull side facing the rear of the fly.

Now "fold" the feather. Hold the feather by the tip with your right hand. Stroke the barbs dull side together with your fingers with your left hand. Sometimes wetting your fingers with your tongue to help fold the feather. Start with your right hand holding the tip. Make an "o" or oval shape around the feather with your left hand by touching your tumb to your index or middle finger. While pressing your thumb and finger together draw your fingers backwards to the point of bending/stroking the barbs backwards. You should pull your left hand back enough to the point that your pingers are now pinching the stem. Continue stroking past the stem slowly. You may have to repeat this process a couple of times. Your abjective is to stroke all the barbs angled backwards to where all of the barbs are facing the back side of the stem. Once the barbs are pointing backwards palmer the feather backwards down the body until you reach the wire. Now take the wire and cross wrap the feather all the way back to the front of the fly. While cross wrapping you need to make sure to not compress or bind the barbs between the wire and the body. If you wiggle the wire back and forth while wrapping the wire forward you will limit the amount of bound barbs. Cross wrapping will "bind" and secure the feather's stem to the body of the fly. This process strengthens your fly and makes the barbs of your fly angled backwards properly.

Give this technique a try if you can follow my directions. :lol:

Descirbing the process is not easy if you have any questions please let me know.

SullyTM
09-07-2005, 07:48 AM
...and I thought this was going to be easy :-k I'm going to try every suggestion. Last night I practiced and was starting to get the "feel" of the backward sweep. In order to enhance the look I was pushing back the fibers after every turn...Thanks everyone. Thom

P.S. Hey Adam, why aren't you in class :wink:

mike N
10-10-2005, 09:20 PM
Adam's technique is a good one. I took several classes from a guy in the bay area and he taught that techniques as well. The only difference was that the hackle was prepared prior to applying the material to the shank.

This is a very effective technique for preparing hackles used for palmering, wet fly colars and even large size soft hackles. Hackles can be applied tip first or but first depending on the application and desired result. fool around with it, use up a few feathers and see what happens.

MN

jbird
10-10-2005, 10:32 PM
I agree with wrapping the hackle front to back and then counter wrapping forward with ribbing. I like my buggers sparse so I strip all the fibers off one side of the feather. I do the same thing with soft hackles, strip one side. only dif with soft hackle is I tie in the tip. I love a sparse looking fly.

J