who is completely legal regarding steelhead cards??

[JDHunterJR]

I bet most people here are not completely legal with regards to steelhead cards, especially those who fish alot.
Sure, I bet we all buy steelhead cards, and if we keep a steelhead we write it down.

But, according to the regulations whenever you fish a anadronymous fishery and are fishing for trout, you have to fill out a space in the card, even if it is to report you didnt catch any rainbows over 16 inches. So EVERY time you fish the yuba, you have to fill out your steelhead card. If you catch a resident rainbow on the yuba and it is 16 inches or bigger, you have to list it on your card, even tho you know its not a steelhead. If you get skunked on the yuba, you have to take a space to report that. Same goes for the lower american, lower sac, and lower feather.

For some die hard fisherman here that means 5-12 steelhead cards bought a year. Heck, if you fish 3 anadronymous waterways in a day you have to use up 3 of your 30 spots, even if you get skunked on all 3, and even if the steelhead arent running and you are fishing for native trout. I bet legally some people here would have to buy 15 steelhead cards a year!!

Personally, I refuse, REFUSE!! to buy more than 2 steelhead cards a year. Who here has bought more than 5?

You Yuba fisherman, how many steelhead cards a year do you buy?

[SteelieD]

First of all JD, welcome to the board!

This is a topic that has been recently discussed here in this thread...

http://kiene.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=1334

That said, I am sure it will generate some interest (and interesting replies!) with the steelhead making their way back to the valley rivers soon.

[Darian]

Hey JD,.... Interesting post.... Not sure I understand your position on purchasing no more than two cards.... :? :? Why not just one or three :?: :?:

Sorry if I sound as tho I'm lecturing, but, each time you fish where a report card is required, you're in violation without having a valid card in your possession and in danger of receiving a citation.... Considering the cost of a card vs the potential cost of a citation, is it worth the risk :?: :?: (you can probably tell which camp I'm in from this post 8) 8) )

Anyway, welcome to the BB community.... :D Hope to hear more from you :D :D

[JDHunterJR]

And if you are fishing the yuba in the middle of summer do you mark your steelhead card? If you dont you are in violation. Yes, I always have a valid report card. Do I completely follow the law and report days when I catch no steelhead on a anadromyous fishery, when their might not even be any steelhead running? Nope, I will follow the rules through one report card, but after the second I will only mark my report card when I catch actually steelhead. How many days a year do you fish darian? How many of those days are on anadromyous fisheries? Every time you fish for trout on the putah, or lower sac, or lower american, you have to fill out your report card.
The point of my post was for most of us, if we were to follow the regulations we would buy at least 5 steelhead cards a year, and I bet most do. Do you fill out your report card EVERY time you fish for trout on a anadromous fishery (putah, sac, american, feather, yuba) whether you catch a fish or not Darian? If you fish multiple anadromous fisheries in one day do you fill out your card for each fishery, even if you are skunked? Say you drive down to the yuba, c&r 1 14 inch resident trout, then go to putah, get skunked, then do some dry fly fishing at night on the american and c&r 1 14 inch half pounder, do you fill out 3 different spots on your 30 spot card? When you keep that in mind, I would not be surprised if their are not multiple people here who legally would have to buy 10 reports cards, at over $5 a card that is over $50! I bet NO ONE here has bought 10 report cards in a year.



Hey JD,.... Interesting post.... Not sure I understand your position on purchasing no more than two cards.... :? :? Why not just one or three :?: :?:

Sorry if I sound as tho I'm lecturing, but, each time you fish where a report card is required, you're in violation without having a valid card in your possession and in danger of receiving a citation.... Considering the cost of a card vs the potential cost of a citation, is it worth the risk :?: :?: (you can probably tell which camp I'm in from this post 8) 8) )

Anyway, welcome to the BB community.... :D Hope to hear more from you :D :D

[JDHunterJR]

And if you are fishing the yuba in the middle of summer do you mark your steelhead card? If you dont you are in violation. Yes, I always have a valid report card. Do I completely follow the law and report days when I catch no steelhead on a anadromyous fishery, when their might not even be any steelhead running? Nope, I will follow the rules through one report card, but after the second I will only mark my report card when I catch actually steelhead. How many days a year do you fish darian? How many of those days are on anadromyous fisheries? Every time you fish for trout on the putah, or lower sac, or lower american, you have to fill out your report card.
The point of my post was for most of us, if we were to follow the regulations we would buy at least 5 steelhead cards a year, and I bet most do. Do you fill out your report card EVERY time you fish for trout on a anadromous fishery (putah, sac, american, feather, yuba) whether you catch a fish or not Darian? If you fish multiple anadromous fisheries in one day do you fill out your card for each fishery, even if you are skunked? Say you drive down to the yuba, c&r 1 14 inch resident trout, then go to putah, get skunked, then do some dry fly fishing at night on the american and c&r 1 14 inch half pounder, do you fill out 3 different spots on your 30 spot card? When you keep that in mind, I would not be surprised if their are not multiple people here who legally would have to buy 10 reports cards, at over $5 a card that is over $50! I bet NO ONE here has bought 10 report cards in a year.



Hey JD,.... Interesting post.... Not sure I understand your position on purchasing no more than two cards.... :? :? Why not just one or three :?: :?:

Sorry if I sound as tho I'm lecturing, but, each time you fish where a report card is required, you're in violation without having a valid card in your possession and in danger of receiving a citation.... Considering the cost of a card vs the potential cost of a citation, is it worth the risk :?: :?: (you can probably tell which camp I'm in from this post 8) 8) )

Anyway, welcome to the BB community.... :D Hope to hear more from you :D :D

[Darian]

Hmmmm,.... Apparently, this is a sensitive issue with you. :x

I'm certainly not a fan of the regs in this area but feel that the need for the information gathered supports the need/requirement for the card. 8) Like a lot of things done by government, implementation was not properly considered. Therefore the need for multiple cards with attendant fees.... :x :x (A lot of good intentions gone wrong and more like harrassment than info gathering).

That being said, if you haven't already read the prior post, you might find some of your answers there 8) . My impression of that discussion was that there is a lot of misinformation and varying opinions about what to do about it out there. ](*,)

In my own opinion, we should try to work with DFG to make this a more workable project by redesigning the card or changing the reuirement itself. There're probably other ideas out there, as well.... 8) 8) 8)

[MSP]

As I posted in the earlier thread the information that the DFG recieves is not even close to being accurate when it comes to Steelhead counts and man hours spent chasing them. I've never seen any reports from DFG regarding the information that has been gathered from the Steelhead cards. If they are trying to get a relative count of fish or the hours spent persuing them this card has to be rewritten to only mark days spent chasing actual Steelhead.

But I will have to say I do comply with the instructions, NOT :twisted:

[Adam Grace]

I do not always mark down the times when I go out fishing. Only real steelhead trips.

I'm not perfect.... like you didn't already know. :D

[Darian]

I agree with Mike about the accuracy of the info received from the report cards, given that almost everyone is in some degree of non-compliance with the requirements. 8) Not sure where the info is used as I've never seen a report on this either. :? :?

The card has to be redesigned as does the process of entering and capturing info that DFG needs. 8) It may be difficult to get reasonably accurate info from fisherman who don't know the difference between Steelhead and resident rainbows, tho. :-k

It seems to me that whatever system/procedure is used, the goal must be to capture accurate info... 8) Then the procedure must accommodate that goal by encouraging fisherman to enter info easily/accurately and without an ongoing cost. \:D/ Of course, DFG owes it to us to share that info in order to give us some idea that the money/time/effort is worth it. 8)

If I understand Mikes point about only when fishing for Steelhead correctly, it anticipates only using the card when targeting Steelhead, regardless of whether you're fishing in anadromous waters. If there is an incidental catch of Steelhead and a failure to report it, wouldn't that tend to make the info collected equally less accurate than if people just fail to comply as it is now :?: :?:

[MSP]

Darian, regarding your last paragraph about the incidental catch of a Steelhead I do mark that down on my card. Unfortunately those are not as common as I would like. :D

[SteelieD]

See JD... I knew this would get some blood flowing! (As I'm sure it was intended to.)

By no means is this meant to be the last word on this topic, but...

1. I have a steelhead trip planned for this week (yes I have a card, and no, it's not full... unfortunately). I don't fish as much many folks here so my opinions may be meaningless, but this topic interests me.

2. I think for those who have not gone back to read the previous thread, Darian has put it pretty succinctly in the final post there (he's a much better writer and more educated on the subject than I and his thought are worth repeating). Thank you Darian, in advance, for allowing me to plagerize/quote...

__________________________________________________ ______

"Keep in mind, that I started this topic to get an idea of the effectiveness of the Report Card and what the compliance levels were..... Not making judgments of individuals or asking anyone else to do the same.

Having said that, I believe Steve is correct. The process is difficult to comply with. For example, there is the need to purchase additional cards every time one is completed. Not all sporting goods or fly tying stores carry them.... True, they can be ordered on-line but many times, that's not convenient or timely.

There is the ambiguity in this set of regs. They are overly vague.... There's no question that voluntary compliance is the thing to do. However, what do you comply with and why You can read from the responses on this topic that most people are trying to comply but with their own interpretations of the regs. That usually means that the regs are too complex for the average guy to be able to comply.... voluntary compliance with regs is encouraged if their purpose and wording is clear and un-ambiguous....

If the point of gathering data is to be informed about the biological status of Steelhead, why are the fish to be studied arbitrarily established by measure of length Why not use a different measure such as the return of a scale(s) for example It would seem that the purpose is clear but is it The info gathered by these cards was tabulated but, apparently, not used in connection with the proposed delisting.....

There was a mention in a prior post that "....the money goes for a good purpose". But, does it, really, when the budget can be reduced and licensing revenues can be diverted to non-fish/game activities/service

Finally, in addition to the budget and hiring issues for wardens, I believe that the governors restructuring plan for state agencies included a proposal to consolidate law enforcement functions under one agency. That agency would most likely be the highway patrol. Regardless of how you feel about that, it has a big impact on how DFG will set it's priorities....

I guess what bothers me about all of this is the many ways that DFG tries to do it's job while one part of the department inadvertently sabotages the others efforts In the balance, is yours and my future fishing/hunting activities and the related economics..... Just think what our children, grandchildren, etc., will not have known if things continue on their present course......

OK, I'm growing tired of this one.... I'm outa here."
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Let your conscience be your guide. There are certainly not enough DFG wardens to check every license/steelhead card. I think this is a mostly moral group who is trying to their best to adhere to the laws and preserve our fisheries for some time to come. If you have children or people who you hope to have enjoy the rivers that we enjoy, the cost of a "couple" of report cards is a small price to pay, whether it to gather information or simply raise revenue to preserve waters. I'm not here to debate every possible situation for every fisherman, it certainly is a gray area, but like I said... let your conscience be your guide.

I'll jump off my soap box now! :)