Barbless & Dropper

[JPY]

Ok, after reading all your posts regarding the benefits to barbless hooks, I decided to pinched down my barbed hooks. However, I have a very simple question or concern. I usually tie a dropper to the bend of the hook. I don't worry about the dropper slipping off since the barb is there to stop the knot from sliding off the hook. Should I worry about that now? Should I use a different knot to tie to the bend? Is there other methods to tie a dropper?

Thanks.
John

[flygolf]

I do that as well and have lost a few droppers because of it but not enough to really worry about it. I have switched to the trylene knot with that and really crank down on it and that has seemed to help. The trylene knot is basically a improved clinch knot but you go through the hole twice and leave a loop which you will bring the tag end through once you have done the wraps. Very strong knot.

[Darian]

That's a good question.... 8) My personal preference is to connect the dropper above the point fly by loop to loop connection.... :D Not meaning to dismiss the method, but I've never used the one you describe. :roll:

Having said that, I believe the centrifical force from casting will keep the knot fixed to the bend of the hook. Likewise, the pull of a fish will tend to keep the knot tight to the bend.... 8) 8) Of course, you could always use some Zap-A-Gap or something similar to affix the knot before using it.... :wink:

Maybe another user of your method'll weigh in with a better answer.... In the meantime, I'll try it and see how I feel about it.... :? :?

By the way, thanks for bringing this up 8) 8)

[MSP]

I have used that setup JPY and haven't had a problem with the knot sliding off the bend of the hook as long as the knot you use is nice and tight. I don't have a lot of experience with that setup because for some reason I just don't like it, and I can't explain why :? I just leave a 6" tag when tying in my tippet and when nymphing I have a nice knot for my split shot to slide down to instead of all the way to my upper fly. I usually don't fish a dry and dropper, again don't ask me why, I know it's killer, but I only fish one fly when using a dry and a two nymph setup when searching for the right pattern. If I ever figure out what they're eating I will go back to a one nymph setup and just cut off the tag. I'm just old and set in my ways :twisted:

[Robert Francisco]

John,

Over the years I have asked several guides this same question as many of them fish two flies especially if they are prospecting. No good answer on how it works, but with a good knot the fly does not come off. My personal experience bears this out as well but I always feel more comfortable if I pinched the barb down rather than using a barbless hook. Seems like the small raised area has to help somewhat.

Robert

[Bill Markwood]

I use a Duncan's loop to tie the dropper on to my barbless hooks and have never had a problem with the dropper fly slipping off.

[Adam Grace]

I think a tight knot will have a much lower chance of coming off. Good casting should also keep the dropper connected, in theory.


Barbless is fine just tie a good knot.

[JPY]

Thanks. I guess only time will tell. If I lose a couple of flies, I'll go to the loop to loop, or try MSP's method. However, with the loop to loop, I seem to tangle a lot more when I roll cast.

MSP - Hopefully when I am as experience as you I will have the confidence to go to a one fly setup. For now, I need all the help I can get.

John

[Wednesday Caster]

I recently went to a FF club meeting where a shop-hand and P-T guide using the same technique as MSP demonstrated an additional benefit of using the tag end (of tying on a tippet) to tie on a fly. The tied on fly swings about 45 degrees from the dropper line which he claims to avoid fouling the lines. 8)
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+----* <(((>< ~ ~ ~ ~
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Quinn (starving graphic artist)

[SteelieD]

I've never had a problem losing the bottom half of a double nymph rig because of the knot sliding off the hook, only breaking off because of a poor knot. It is, for me at least, more difficult to tie the knot on the hook bend. I think MSP's suggestion is excellent and sounds much easier. Great "graphic" interpretation of it Quinn!

[JPY]

MSP & Wednesday Caster - What knots do you use to tie on the tippet. I use a surgeon knot because it is easy and fast to tie. However, the surgeon knot does not hang at an angle to effectively use for the upper fly.

Thanks,
John

[Wednesday Caster]

Forgot a critical element that creates the "angle". :oops:

Tie a double surgeons with extra tippet tag end (but not wasteful). Using the tag end of the tippet, do a simple overhand knot around the down tippet line. The tag end should stick straight out giving some clearance from the down line. Tie flies (+/-) 4" on tag end. Now if I can only tie on my flies properly...

W (indicator)
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Q (Split Shot)

Not bad for 01:40 tired hour, eh?

This system should be (+/-) 1.5 the depth, often ticking the bottom as it travels. SET if indicator shows any "unnatural" movement ie. slows, quickens, directional changes.

I thought this guy was a genius, who was giving details of this nymphing system. This design here should result in less snag, target 2 different depths and more fish. His handout shows Sierra Pacific Fishing Adventures (310)749-6771. NOT Spam just giving credit where due.

I'm just glad I can share some knowledge since I've asked so much of so many of you. Thanks!
Quinn (Mr. CAD deficient) :wink:

[MSP]

I try and keep things as simple as possible so I just use this knot when tying leaders and tippets. I only use 3 turns through the loop instead of 5. I use half of the knot with 5 turns to attach my leaders to the flyline.

:? Are we confused yet. I think I know what I'm saying :?

http://www.flyfishnorcal.org/php-nuke/photopost45/data/500/285unitouni.gif

I either use the heavier line or the lighter line for the tag depending on the conditions and flys being used.

[JPY]

Great stuff. Thanks again.

John

[MSP]

JPY - I don't only use one dry fly fly because of my experience, I only use one because I'm a subborn old fart that doesn't know any better. Some day I'm going to get the hang of all this stuff :roll: Probably not before I'm gone though. :cry: Good luck with whatever setup you decide on. Hell, try em all and see what works for you, this flyfishing stuff is a to-each-their-own kind of thing, if it works, don't fix it :!:

[Wednesday Caster]

MSP/JPY: I prefer a single fly approach too. Can't barely manage but one as it is. I've only doubled up flies a couple of times (and only on the A) and found that all I was doing was trying to get un-stuck off an obstacle on the bottom or near bottom. :x But then I'm also a newbie and still have a couple more decade of experience to go through before I figure why the reel is at the end of the rod and not in the middle of the handle. :wink:

[Eric Ryan]

I used to tie dropper to hopper hook, but now I am tying dropper to hopper eye. I use two improved clinch knots--one for each line.

Sincerely,
Eric Ryan
www.ryanrodco.com