Double Hauling Distance Average

[Wednesday Caster]

So, I've been doin the fly fishing thing for 2.5 yrs and have worked hard to get the forward and back cast in symetry and getting about 45+ft consistently. Since I live in So CA my distance needs rarely exceeds 25' but I practice lawn casting for those few times I get to travel north yearly.

I'm ready to graduate to this double hauling business. I've got a WF9ST set-up that I've been practicing double hauling with and can reach only about 60' at my best. This seems a lot of work for only 15 more feet!

What are is a good distance goal to work for in double hauling?

[jfkowalski]

There is a great casting video by George Roberts, and it is available for sale at whitemouseflyfishing.com
George fishes for stripers off of the east coast and knows how to cast. He also knows how to make an excellent video.
Using his video, I have gone from 60 to 70 foot casts to more than a hundred
George states that hauling does not increase the length of your cast very much. What it does do is to help you get more line speed, and tighter loops. If you cannot master tighter loops, you will have a hard time getting distance and consistency. George's video gives you ten things to work on to get a long cast. Ony one is hauling
Finally hauling is not a lot of work. When you master it, you will do it on almost all of your casts, short and long.

[PaulC]

A stripping basket will also help increase your distance allowing you to shoot more line with lower friction through the guides. You're not fighting gravity as much and less chance of tangles. We're hauling all the time in the surf to punch it out over that next wave set and get it into the zone.
jfkowalski is right on that it is about increasing the line speed and tightening the loop. You can carry more line in the air and shoot on your back and forward casts.
Longer casts can get you to that next bucket out there.
Some guys are even migrating to spey rods for reaching that structure that is just a tad bit too far out there. Still kind of a nouveau adaptation in the surf down south, but catching on a bit. Definitely cool to see a dude working the long pole in the surf.
-Paul

[Darian]

WC,..... I'm not sure you've given us enough info about your current outfit to make a guess as to whether it's "balanced" for casting. For example, we know you have a "....WF9ST set up...." but suppose you're trying to cast that line on a 5 weight rod. :? :? Under those circumstances, you may only be able to get 60' no matter how hard you try.... :? :?

Have Someone evaluate your set-up.... 8) 8) Then, I think buying a video or book on this subject or getting a lessson is the best, initial, course. 8) 8)

[David Lee]

WC -

Next time you're in Sacramento .... give me a ring . we'll get it sorted out .

David (free of charge) Lee

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

My advice is to get a new weight forward floating line for your rod and get some lessons from Jeff Putnam.

Casting is effortless if you have good equipment and learn how to cast properly.

http://www.jpflyfishing.com/grouppg_lessons.html

http://www.jpflyfishing.com/images/jeff-casting_000.gif

Jeff @ Watt Avenue

[Wednesday Caster]

Thanks All.
I recently received as a gift an Orvis 9' 9# Mid Flex and Battenkill mid-arbor reel (musta done sumptin good). So what is a good distance for me to work to? I'm not looking for a record title just a distance that would maximize my steelheading opportunity in northern rivers since I am limited to only one or two work related trips a year north.

I will look for a video to improve my casting skills. Do not have the budget for a private lesson at this time. I have not surf-fished but a little concerned with having a stripping basket in a river acting as a parachute pulling me as I wade.

David, thanks for your offer again. I have a work trip planned for next month around Sac so I will try to get with you David. I've read a lot of posts by you and others and can tell that you're a great character. I've only had the opportunity to fish the "A" 3 days this year (Jan and Apr) but have not had too much success- none as a matter of fact. Maybe we can find some water time too. Look for an email or pm in about 2 weeks to see if I can skirt some time off work on my visit.

[mikenewman]

Wednesday

Don't even think about striving for a particular distance: it will almost certainly cause you to force the cast and lose your timing. I suspect that you need to work on tightening your loops - this will give you greater distance immediately. Trying to introduce the double haul at this stage will hinder not help. The George Roberts video is excellent with good practise drills. Also try www.sexyloops.com - it's a site run by a top UK casting instructor and total fly fishing bum, Paul Arden. There's a year's worth of free instruction there.

Mike

[Digger]

This makes me think about a similar situation.
I use a quick sinking tip line (Teeny 275gr) for steeheading typically on the Klamath & Smith.
I never bother with hauling or double hauling casts. Basically I just strip in all the floating section and fling the sinking portion back, quartering upstream. Nothing pretty, but the weight of the sinking portion pulls a good deal of line with it.

I could see it with a floating line, but I don’t understand how I could use a d-haul when most of my line (28ft) is below the surface with strong current pulling it(?) Sorry, I know this must be very elementary in the realm of casting techniques.

[Darian]

Digger,.... In order to prepare your sinking line for hauling, you need to bring it to the surface. At the end of your retrieve, roll cast the portion of your line remaining under water. This will bring it to the surface. 8) 8)

As soon as the roll cast ends/tip touches the end of the water, pick it up from the water with a backcast. Done correctly, the backcast will be your first haul on the line, generating line speed. 8) 8) 8) The rest of the cast may include another (double) haul or not. Your choice..... It sounds like you don't need to double haul and are doing quite well with your present technique.... 8) 8)

Ya know, it always helps to have the "double haul" in your quiver but it isn't always necessary for catching river fish. All of the fish in a river aren't on the opposite side..... :wink: :wink: :wink:

[Digger]

Darian, thanks for the reply. And, I don't doubt you know what's up with that.
It seems to me that roll casting to get it out of that current and onto the surface would be really tough to do??? You know, lifting it off the bottom in some 6ft deep fast water like at Blake's.
Maybe not, I'll certainly try that this Sept/Oct when I get up to the Klamath.
Any other suggestions would be welcomed. Thanks.

[Wednesday Caster]

Would a fast sinking shooting head with running line help the distance situation? I assume you cast with the 38' length of the line and then punch out the last forward cast to draw the running line to follow? Is there enough stored energy in the load of the back cast to shoot the running line another 50+ feet?
Please be patient if this is an elementary question but I've not used many sinking line systems.

[Darian]

OK Guys,.... Almost too many questions.... :lol: :lol:

Actually, the roll cast is fairly easy. 8) 8) Those of us who came up during a time when double taper fly lines learned this cast as a matter of course.... 8) 8) It (roll cast) became more difficult to execute with the advent of WF lines and Shooting Heads; tho, not impossible if you realize that you shoudn't try to roll cast a length longer than, say, 32' (...just an example). Anything longer requires an adjustment to accomplish (load the rod) and most beginners aren't ready for that..... The point of the roll cast is to raise the line to the surface and get back into the action quickly. Ideally with one backcast and forecast (Hmmm,.... Isn't that the weather :?: :?: ).

The alternative is to raise your line by stripping in enough line for you to pick it up from the bottom and false casting to lengthen your line in order to shoot (double haul). Not a pleasant or efficient prospect. :? :?

Essentially, a WF line is a shooting head permanently built onto a running/shooting line. 8) In this case the running line is usually a larger diameter than using a true head and a monofilament running/shooting line. Until you gain some confidence/experience with a WF line, I wouldn't recommend graduating too a head with Mono Running line.... It's pretty frustrating to jump into something that requires good timing without feeling very confident about it.... (fun, tho :wink: :wink: :wink: )

Some of the best Steelhead fisherman I know never use a shooting head on any river, consistently make long casts and catch lots of steelhead (Adam, they're not Spey casters :P :P :P ). Certainly, Spey casting is a very good alternative to look into, as well. 8)

As Mike Newman says, don't get too concerned with distance.... Just make sure your fundamentals are sound and that you gain confidence and experience before trying to punch out long casts. Keep everything under control; then expand. 8) 8) Make the jump too quickly and you'll find out what a bunch of us have already experienced in terms of wearing lines on our hats or piercing various parts of anatomies (involuntarily). :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

BUT, It's all good. 8) 8) 8)

[mikenewman]

Wednesday

Just a thought but how do you measure your casts? Are you talking 60' of fly line/running line or 60' of fly line plus (say) 9' leader & 9' rod length which makes a total cast of 78'.

Mike

[jfkowalski]

For all of my heavier lines, incuding all of my saltwater lines, I mark them as soon as I buy them. I take great pains at finding the end of the rear taper, and mark the rear taper and part of the belly with red marker pen. Then I usually make marks every ten feet, using the same system that Rio uses so that I know which mark is 60', which is 70' and so forth.
For my own purposes, I usually determine how much line is outside of the reel, and do not count the leader. I usually make a homemade furled leader from 5 to 10" long just to protect the end of the line from whipping, etc.

However if I were tryig to impress someone, I would surely add the leader in

[mikenewman]

JFK

Just thinking Wednesday maybe casting longer than he thinks. At the end of the day fish will decide how good your casting is; short or long :D

Mike

[Wednesday Caster]

I am measuring from where I stand to the end of the line- leader included ~ 60+' Not bad but could be much better.
Mike is correct... at the end of the day the fish will be the measure of our casting skills. Since I failed to pierce any lips on my previous trips when I casted short I figure I should learn a distance technique.

Ok, Ok, I'll focus on fundamentals and expect distance will follow.
Any of you guys ever play drums? Remember rudiments... whole note, then half, then quarter, eigth, 16ths (left right left right...) for those first 5+ weeks (driving my parent crazy); then next thing you know you're doing rolls.
Sort like this flyfishing thing I guess. Thanks so much guys. :D

[Stevie J]

Wednesday caster,
Since you are in So. Cal, look up the Long Beach Casting Club online, and make a trip to the casting ponds there. There will be many very qualified people there to help you on your way. You will have to ask for help. They probably will not offer assistance unless asked. A trained eye can analyze your loops, I.D. hinderances, and offer solutions that would take years to figure out on your own. However, if you do get to Sacramento... you cannot do any better than Jeff Putnam. I commend you on your desire to get better. Our fishing time is WAY to precious to spend struggling with something we can practice every night for 10 minutes. Put in the time and you will be amazed.
sj

[CW]

WC - get a lesson from a great instructor - great instructors don't only make 60 feet and 8 inches of loop depth look easy, they know how to make you understand it. Ask around, because the money is worth it. While books and videos will help, they don't talk back to you and tell you what you are doing wrong, and they don't stand back from you 20 feet and see what your rod and loops are doing. Lots of guys can punch a line 80 feet out, but did they just take 10 false casts and get their daily cardio regimen? I would call several flyshops and ask who they recommend. If you get up here to Sac, call Jeff Putnam. Don't take my word for it, email people offline, and call around, I'm pretty certain you will be satisfied. Respectfully,
CW

[Wednesday Caster]

Stevie J- Superb idea!!!
Long Beach Casting Club is just over the bridge from me in Long Beach. I always forget that they're there. Thanks for the reminder :wink: .
I guess it's time to join as I recently bought fly-tying gear and the lessons for tying and casting would be 4 times the cost of the annual membership ($45)- which includes FREE casting, tying and rod building clinics throughout the year. What a deal!
Thanks

[Adam Grace]

Darian made some great points about the roll casting. even though he does not spey :P :lol:

Distances is not always important. But a good distance for a shooting head cast would be from 80' and longer in my opinion. I believe that double hauling is important when casting long distances. DH significantly increases the line speed and a tight loop allows the fast moving line to move through the air with less resistance.

Always roll cast up your shooting heads and sink tips to the surface before casting. You will kill yourself trying to pull the wholle head out of the water at once. Strip in the back of the sinking section until it is half way down the rod. Then roll cast and let the head slip out past the rod tip, false cast once or twice then let'er rip!

Once again don't worry about the distance. Concentrate on you technique. Shooting heads shoul not require much effort, let the rod and heavy head do the work.

Good luck with the casting - Adam

[Wednesday Caster]

Darian and Adam:
Thanks gents for sharing your knowledge and patience. This big fish fishing is not my norm (check out my average fish on the left) so I'm like a babe in the woods with rods 5 weights more than what I normally sling.
Anyway sure makes a lot of sense to get the line up to surface before trying to haul it for the back cast- didn't think of that issue since I've been only lawn casting. Thanks guys.
Quinn