State of Stripers....

[Darian]

It seems to be the appropriate timing for a discussion of the current state of the Striped Bass fishery in the Delta/tributaries. 8)

Recent reports of surveys by DFG on the health of the delta eco-system indicate that the food chain is virtually on the verge of collapse beginning at the bottom end up thru and including the fact that there’re few small or baby stripers in the system. :( :( DFG and others attribute this condition to a number causes. Such as, pumping of water out of the delta for any purpose, run-off that includes agricultural pesticides and heavy metals, storm drain run-off, effluent from development, invasive species and more ad nauseum… :( :( :( .

A Project that recently made its way into the limelight is the South Delta Improvement project (SDIP). I’ve been told that project proposes to increase pumping of water from the Delta to wherever under the guise of improving water conditions in the south Delta :? :? :? . An Environmental Impact Report is due out from Department of Water Resources (DWR), shortly (may’ve already been released). All of this and more appears in posts on Blanton’s BB, already and many of you’re aware of it. 8)

Formal Proposals:

1. Some groups are proposing a slot limit for take of Striped Bass.

2. A number of groups are banding together to oppose the SDIP

There’re probably many other proposals out there but unknown to me.

I’m wondering how much longer our current fishery can withstand the stresses put upon it by the demands of our economy and societal needs :?: :?: :?: Is this current trend merely an interim downward cycle or a signal of the total collapse of the fishery as happened in Winchester and Coos Bays of Oregon :?: :?: :?:

OK, your turn. What do you think :?: :?: What can be done, if anything :?: :?: :?:

[Katz]

Question:

What is considered a "baby" Striper. I have been out at the mouth of the Feather and on the American where we will catch over 20 fish in a short time that are from 6-15". Do these count as babies?

I wish I had a good idea about how to help. I sure love fishing for them and would hate to see the fishery decline :cry:

Katz

[HC]

Katz, Yep, babies they are. Treat them kindly, they are the future. HC

[David Lee]

HC -

You are correct , Sir - A PLAUGE on those that fish a chunk of Sardine on a 2/0 hook ..... baitfishing KILLS more immature Stripes than anything .

Darian -

The collapse of the Winchester bay population was largely due to poor spawning conditions - I've heard that conditions allow a good spawn every 8-15 years . I think John Shewey ( i just know I got his name wrong ....) wrote at length on the subject .

A single fish UNDER 28 inches would be a good start .

NO BAIT ABOVE FREEPORT would be another .

NO FISHING FROM BOATS couldn't hurt , either :P

KILL ALL THE SEALS/SEALIONS - please send hate-mail to my PM addy , as so to not clog the board w/ debate (might help w/ salmon/steelhead , also .) .

Have a nice weekend , fellas :!:

David

[Darian]

Hi David,.... Was beginning to wonder if anyone cared about this. You've made some interesting and positive observations.... 8) I do concur for the most part. 8) 8)

Of course, limiting fishing to shoreline access would severely cut into guide fees for drift boats and delta guides.... :? Pretty sure how they'd react to that. :x Since I see all things as being in balance when popoulations are self sustaining, killing "....all...." of anything is not an option for me.... :( (and, I kinda like our pinniped pals when they're under some control 8) 8) )

One item we haven't addressed, yet, is mitigation. 8) Losses resulting from loss of habitat have, historically, been mitigated thru the hatchery program for Salmonids. What happened to the warm water hatcheries that used to be in places like Elk Grove (where Stripers were reared/released) :?: :?: Maybe we copuld work on having that program revived :?: The facility is still there (On laguna Creek at the corners of Bond rd/Elk Grove-Florin Rd.) but in disrepair. 8) 8)

While catch/slot limits, catch/release ethics and limitation of bait fishing are some very valuable tools, I'm not sure they're anything more than stop-gap measures. :? If the DFG surveys are correct, the beginning declines (while not yet evident to us) are already in place. :cry: :cry:

Environmental groups appear to be so distracted/divided on these problems that they seem to be inadvertantly working against solving Delta problems. :? For example, the effort to restore Hetch Hecthy by eliminating the dam that is a principal source of water for the City of SF will undoubtedly put more pressure on water sources that currently supply the Delta to replace Hetch Hetchy :? . Other groups are working to establish slot limits and others are working to oppose state projects to increase increased pumping in the Delta. :? :?

All of these "things" seem to be inter-related.... I'd really like to explore what is possible and I'm inviting all of you to participate..... 8) 8) 8) If we don't start looking into this subject area now, I'm afraid we'll preside over the demise of yet another anadromous species.... :( :( :(

[David Lee]

Darian -

Sorry ... I forgot the double-razz at the end of the "kill' bit .

The no bait/no boats thing was also a joke .

To be honest , I don't think that there's really anything we can do to save them - if there is money to be made regarding water exports , the stripes WILL be doomed . I'm not trying to be a downer , but the powers that be are going to have their way .

The lust for the allmighty dollar and total apathy for nature shown by the majority will ruin us all in the end .

David

[Darian]

Reluctantly,.... I find myself in agreement with your assessment but I hope I'm worng. :( :( What Striped Bass need is an advocate/champion for its cause like there is for Salmonids.... 8) So far, with few exceptions, people seem to be ambivalent about the fate of Stripers.... :( :( :(

Currently, there is an effort in the legislature (AB 7) to secure funding from current licening fees for the hatchery program (inland fisheries) with an emphasis on producing Salmonids; no mention of Stripers or Shad. Yet, both are anadromous and of great economic value to this State....

In another example of divided efforts of conservation organizations, one of the advocates is CalTrout, originator/supporter of the Heritage Trout Program which seeks to establish native salmonids throughout their original range and replace all non-native Trout and other species.... In other words, a return to the past (without Stripers, Shad and some other warm water species.... :( CalTrout, also, supports the proposed slot limit for Stripers.... :? :? :?

There doesn't seem to be the same mystique surrounding fly fishing for Stripers as there is for Salmonids. :? I suppose a lot of that is due to the comparative amount of literature between the two and the fascination with tying attractive, small, imitative flies/lures.... My guess is that river/brackish/salt water fly fishing is in its relative infancy on the west coast. 8) 8) From what I can determine, there is much more interest in restoring/maintaining Striper fisheries on the East Coast. 8) 8)

[Tony Buzolich]

Hi Darian, and All,

This topic really opens a can of worms to all kinds of snide comments and gives everyone out there a chance to vent off steam, but I think the truth of the matter is exactly as David said, "those with the power to be (money) get the lion's share of whatever". Not exactly those words but you all get the idea.
It hinges around water. Southern California has a lot of thirsty people,,,,,,, with money. Money Talks, and, money corrupts.

Should we share our resources at the expence of our own well being?

Politics everywhere work under the guise of being for the people, but all along the way some one else winds up suffering.

Not all enviromentalist groups are good. Some are extremists no matter what they parade their cause for.

I think all we as fisherman can do is support what is of concern to us. Guys on Dan's Board (sorry Bill) are really in to this striped bass thing because it's right in their own backyard. Guys like Doug Lovell and Red Bartley spend endless hours fighting to support striped bass any way they can and we need to support them.

The mention of the east coast just brought something else to mind, they (the striped bass groups back there) were just now able to change the statis of striped bass to a game fish. In so doing, this brought better protection and regulation to striper industry. Previously, they were caught and sold commercially. Now, they have been able to prove that farm raised stripers for market purposes are far more profitable, and thus allows the sport striper industry to thrive and flourish. Better for both.

Geez, I guess I got a little rant too,
TONY

[Darian]

Hey Tony,.... I was hoping you'd enter this discussion. Thanks for the observations..... 8) 8) 8)

I agree that water politics is driving nearly everything in this state and feel a certain frustration with that situation.... :? Water issues are the most complex, legally, here in the west where even the relationships between states is very testy.... :shock: I agree that this part of the equation may not be resolvable by us.

About the game fish designation, not sure about this, but I believe Stripers are already designated as a game fish in this state and they're still in decline in spite of what current high catch rates reflect. :roll:

As yet another example of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing, DFG is conducting the study to determine the landing rate between barbed and barbless hooks with an eye to amending the regs for better management of fisheries :? :? (read is increased bag limits :( :( ).

Mike Putman (MSP) observed that he felt everyone should be using barbless hooks. 8) Does anyone on this BB think that use of barbed hooks will not result in increased catch rates :?: :?: Use of barbless hooks'll certainly result in reduced mortality rates during release (assumming the fish are minimally handled). 8) 8)

Sorry guys..... :( Gotta get this stuff off my chest.... If it wasn't so dam hot, some Irish medicine might help.... :P :P :P

[David Lee]

Tony is a VERY wise man .

D - chase that stuff w/ ice-cold Beer .

I avoid this subject like the plauge because I get angry about the way things are .... :evil:

What kind of ASS doesn't take into account that nature has a RIGHT to exist ?!? Who the hell cares that Striped Bass are NOT native - they are NATURALIZED . If we don't have enough water for the unnatural amount of people we have in this state , Maybe , instead of sucking the life out of the Delta , we should CONTROL THE F___KING POPULATITON ?!

Give it about 15 years - when the Delta is totally destroyed , and the Salmon , Steelhead , and Stripers are all gone , who will we blame ?? The bottom line is .... VOTE . Vote for a Boy Scout , or someone who isn't owned by $$$$ , make a stark , drastic statement . DO NOT buy into the bullshit being force-fed to you . raise a huge stink , because , if you don't .... You only have YOURSELF to blame .

Career Politician= some PRICK that is padding his or her nest - They don't really care WHAT happens to you , or your water , or the Ecosystem , as long as their wallet is fat .

What REALLY matters ?? Someone's lawn in Simi Valley ..... Or a Delta Smelt that DOESN'T have a say in the matter ?? If you have to think about that choice , I feel sorry for you .

Take a stand - we have become too complacent about what happens in the world around us . Americans should NOT be a bunch of Goddamm Sheep - we should take charge and stand up for WHAT IS RIGHT .

'Right' does not equate to money , it is being able to look in the mirror in the morning and knowing that the things that should be ..... ARE .

Bill and Eugene - feel free to delete this - its as far out as I will ever post .... but this is what I believe . I don't think that this is a political statement as much as it is a call to arms to get-off our DEAD ASSES and fix a problem that will be our downfall in the end .

David Jerold Lee

[Tony Buzolich]

David,

Seems you've caught the plague anyway :D You've just said what a lot of folks feel but are too timid to say out loud.

I know we're on the same wave length,
TONY

[Tony Buzolich]

I just read a good article in the Fish Sniffer Online about more water being shipped south.
It seems this gal Kathy Kelly is thinking of pumpimg more water at times when the delta supposedly "Doesn't Need It!". Geez, Is there EVER a time the delta doesn't need it?

When we have an abundance of water on our system this creates a flushing action and helps to CLEAN out a lot of the crap that has built up over the years. Just look at the Yuba now that the high waters have gotten back to normal. That river looks great. Even at the mouth where it enters the Feather it is clear and cold. Think the salmon and trout might be enjoying this a little?

It's no different than flushing your toilet at home. If you have one of those "low-flow" porcelin things in your house, you usually wind up flushing it twice. It's no different with the delta and the rivers. You need a certain amount of flow in order to maintain a healthy enviroment.

Geez David, I think I've caught your plague. :wink:
TONY

Tony,Darin,David.
Stimulateing posts.
What ever happened to the money from the Striper stamps and the Delta stamps?

[Darian]

Hey Sturmer,..... You've raised a interesting/related point with me. The Delta Enhancement Stamp. If ever there was, this is an oxymoron..... :wink: :lol:

The Delta ecosystem is on the verge of collapse due largely to loss of water thru pumping.... :x The SDIP (supported by Dept of Water Resources) proposes to increase pumping/removal of water from the Delta to improve water habitat :? :o and DFG charges a fee for a stamp that allegedly enhances the ecosystem.... :?: :?: :x Kinda makes you wonder "who's on first :?: "

The Delta Enhancement Stamp provides funding for improving the habitat for anadromous species in its area of influence and replaced the Salmon Stamp. 8) The area of influence apparently encompasses all rivers/streams that are connected, directly or indirectly, to the Delta and below existing dams where anadromous species swim. Very effective program wouldn't you say :roll: :P Virtually every anadromous species that swims within the area of influence is either in decline or designated as endangered..... :x

Ordinarily, I would be a little more understanding of state services being an ex-state employee. However, I watched this type of activity up close and personal among state agencies far too long..... It's now time to stand up and be counted.... If I/we don't, we stand to lose a great deal of our fishing heritage.... 8) 8) :D

[HC]

I am not a political animal but this is a political problem, and politics is driven by money. A solution, if any, will come through the political process and only when the people say enough! This is done by ballot proposition. California is good at resolution politics, therefore doing things elected officials and judges won’t or can’t do. But, it may never happen; we are distracted and so on.

California’s water grab and laws that permitted it to happen are ancient history now. These were as significant a change to happen in California since the big four brought the railroad to California. Altruism was not the motive, it was money. Ironically, Striped bass, and Shad were brought by rail to California, along with other very thirsty newcomers. Miners came too, and did their mighty of damages to the rivers. I can remember as a student discussing the California aqueduct and massive dam building projects back in the fifties and sixties. There was a lot of concern about protection for Northern California water and this was mostly from valley farmers. Folks living around me were worried about flood control, they had a right to be, they had built houses on a flood plain. Southern California maybe the worlds most water greedy thirty place on the planet, it has a long history of water piracy. Read Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner for a complete history of the LA water grab. Gotta hand it to ‘em they we good, they lied, cheated and pushed their way into control of most of the South Western US surface water including the lions share of the Colorado river (what's that like 5 states worth), Owens river, and Northern California’s Sacramento and San Joaquin river watersheds. The California Water Plan was hatched in 1931, approved in 1934 but the great depression ended any further actions until 1957 when the 1.7 billion $ water project was approved. The Keystone of the plan began in 1960 with the construction of the Oroville Dam project. Shasta Dam was completed earlier in 1945 and the huge lake of three rivers dammed would eventually be a key part in the CWP. The goal being to move Nor CA water to the south. The canals, pumps and reservoirs, to come, were all part of this well laid foundation for water dominance. Basically their plan, a stupid shortsighted affair, was to bring water to places were there was not any. I am not saying the developers did not get rich, they did. Encouraged, more and more people moved to this new watery paradise of fine weather and easy living. At what risk to wild life? Only at great cost is this plan sustainable and of course the early casualties were wild things, fish in particular. I did not say sacrificed, that would imply divine reason. Our wild things were given over without concern. The pumps in the delta are a good example. The fish screens should have been in place since day one. But that would cost a few dollars for engineering, fabrication, installation and then maintenance. It is a small cost when compared to the billions spent for the CWP and then consider the profits made because of it. Not to mention the value of the fish that were lost. Now, dams are not all bad, I like a drink of water too, and tail waters are a good place to fish and I enjoy them. It’s the use of the stored water that’s gets me.

What we have here really is not a water problem but a people problem, to many wasteful people living in a well watered desert just because they like the weather there. "Not to hot, not to cold, just right” said baby bear. We enjoy a wealth of water for a western state with a semi-arid climate. We are just plain stupid about using it. Places like Las Vegas and Phoenix can not say the same. Anyway this rant is almost over now but I can tell you this is a real bugger of a problem. Our water is deep, deep within the control of Southern California politicians; our Governor is one of them. They take Nor Cal water for granted, and they do not spare development or have concern for our fishy friends or us. I think we should take the approach they understand best, that is free enterprise, they have a lot of dry desert land and we have water. For the right price a deal could be struck. Did you know there are groups buying tracts of delta water right now? Under permits they can they can then sell or use it. My God! Farmers have a similar scheme in which they can buy cheap and sell high. Water companies are in the Sierra’s pumping water out from the foot of the glacier before a fish can ever get a whiff of it. It tastes great but can this be a good thing? What next, I can hardly wait? Sadly, all this carnage is done by legal methods or political process, duly sworn to by elected officials as being in our interest. This means it will be doubly hard to undo it, and set things right.

So what can we do about it? You have a vote - use it like a club. We all know how it works, BS walks and money talks. Support those who will guard our water resources. Get the buggers out that don’t and let them know it. Join with others to form a large front. Every group has a axe to grind, farmers, developers, power companies (Con Ed, Pge) river rafters, kayak’s, fisheries, sports fisherman, boaters, environmentalist and so on, but there can be no compromise where the heath of our rivers are concerned. If we fail now to protect the rivers from the water thieves and their slick lawyers one day in the future it may all be in a pipe way down deep where you can’t even see it never mind fish it. HC

[Darian]

Hi HC,.... Great post.... Good ideas all. I do think that the water grab and related laws are not "....ancient history...." but are evolving all the time. For the worst as far as fish and wildlife are concerned.... :( :( There've been several court decisions about reimbursement for taking water from allotments to save fish, etc.)

If I recall correctly, the major users of water within the boundaries of this state are agricultural interests in the San Joaquin and Imperial Valleys. As you've pointed out, they have been very succesfull in promoting their interests before the federal/state administrations, congress and legislatures. Most of these interests are major corporations. Such as, Kern County Land and, at one time in the Imperial valley, the Chandler family (Thru ownership of the LA Times). Not sure who owns lettuce production in the Imperial Valley, now. Like you said, "....money talks...."

Until recently, irrigation practices by these growers have been wastefull and needed updating. That compounds the problem. :( For once, the state may've done something correct. 8) They've proposed an income tax credit for replacement of aged irrigation systems. 8) (Not a big fan of tax credits as they have a tendency to backfire and are generally not corrected after enactment :x :x )

I want to digest the rest of the info in your post before adding my own thoughts but one idea you mentioned resonated with me. 8) That being the use of private enterprise tactics.... Might just be a good idea. After all, that's what made it possible for farmers to become water entrepreneurs... 8) 8) 8)

[Tony Buzolich]

Sort of like pen raised trout and and we pay by the inch or the pound? Do the same with pen raised stripers? and charge to go catch them in some enclosure?

Yah, I know, snide remark.

Are you suggesting we could use private enterprise to clean up our mess in the delta and the bay? This would only turn in to another tax payer funded never ending project that some big company will make big bucks on.
TONY

[Darian]

Hi Tony,.... Never any snide remarks from me directed to you, Tony.... 8)

Actually, farm/pen raised Stripers is not as far fetched as it sounds. Not a lot different than hatchery raised and the state used to fund warm water hatcheries.... 8) 8) I share your distaste for fishing in those pens such as is done in Trout farms. So, that was never a choice for me.... :( :(

How about buying water rights to use for our own purposes or sell in turn to water users for funding of fishery projects :?: :?: Farmers/growers are already doing that to supplement their incomes. 8) In affect, their new product is water. 8) 8) If we're expected to pay/reimburse farmers/growers or water distributors for taking all or a portion their allotments for salvaging fisheries, why not negotiate our own contracts with suppliers for use on Delta fisheries.... :?: :?: The price may be lower than reimbursement and won't be any worse.... :wink: 8)

I know this is a grandiose idea.... :roll: :roll: But, if we could get enough individuals and/or like minded organizations together it might just work. :D

As an added potential benefit, consolidation of effort on the part of those involved may prove that we could be much more effective than we are now. As an example of this type of thinking, take a look at the National Rifle Association. I'm not overly fond of NRA but let's give the devil his due. NRA is succesfull because it learned how to "play the game" very well and their efforts are concentrated. 8) 8) 8)

[Tony Buzolich]

Darian,

That snide remark was on my part, not yours. I'd never take offence to a comment responce. It's too much fun bantering with you guys.

I just wish I could come up with as much good $&#T as our Oregon friend. He's really got the gift for gab.
TONY

[HC]

Darian, The key to saving the stripers, or any other delta species is water quality. Healthy river systems produce healthy fish and good cool clean water is essential. Pen raised fish are not a long term solution either because it does not address water quality. Stripers spend a lot of time in the Bay and delta where good clean river flows are necessary to keep it good and fresh. For you who live or fish along the American river it may be easy to assume that all delta tributaries are in such good shape. I have lived near the San Joaquin all my life, where its, I think, the 4th most polluted river in the west. We used to have an excellent Salmon and Steelhead but run no longer. Past Ag policies have allowed regular dewatering of the lower river through diversion to Kern county cotton farms. The San JoaQuin is in the grip of big agriculture and it has suffered. Its dry in some places every summer. Perhaps it will get better now but I can not trust a system that allowed this all to happen so easily in the first place.

I placed emphasis on our states water law history only to underscore the difficulty of changing it for the better. We can quibble about fine details but the boiler plate of the law may as well be written in bedrock. It has been said that water normally runs downs hill, but in the golden state water runs up hill to money. HC

[Darian]

WOW :!: :!: HC,.... you may be the only person I know that's as cynical as I am.... :shock: (Well maybe Geller is more cynical than we are.... :roll: :P )

Your observations about the San Joaquin River/area are right on point. As is your point about money influencing policy, etc.

The main point you make is that water quality is the key to survival of all species in the Delta and all of it's tributaries. I concur, here as well. However, you may not be giving us "who fish or live along the American River" enough credit for being able to assess the current state of environmental and political affairs at any level. :? I'm sure this feeling on your part is that we tend not to discuss problems associated with the San Joaquin, directly, if at all. 8) 8)

I can assure you that what is good for the San Joaquin is good for any body of water (especially the Delta/tributaries) and a bunch of us in this area make our livings and spend our recreational hours/dollars in those areas as well as in Sacramento. 8)

I'm not sure that water law can be changed wholesale by anyone but collectively we can have an impact on how policies are viewed and/or established. Further, I believe that use of current laws, rules, policies to our benefit is possible (....but not by me alone or by my vote, alone) by adapting much as farmers/growers have done. Most fisherman I've encountered have a defeatist attitude towards problem solving and that's a sure way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory (.... I didn't just say that did I :?: :?: :roll: :roll: )

While I'm an absolute believer that all of the current problems we face would be solved (....not to everyones satisfaction) if everyone voted, I'm not holding out much hope for that eventuality..... :( :( (Given that less than half of the eligible voters in this state actually register/vote and most of those voters are recently made citizens).

I guess I really wanna find some politician/policy maker who's A__ needs a good kickin' and kick it :!: :!: (figuratively of course :wink: :wink: ). Maybe I sould be thinking that we should find a politician who thinks like us and buy 'im..... :wink: :wink:

Man :!: :!: I gotta get off my soapbox here and go find a racquetball court.... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[HC]

Darian, I am not picking on the American River fishers, on the contrary, I envy them greatly. However, I think its human nature to avoid fruitless endeavor, and as a group fishermen rightly focus on waters where the fishing is good. This is fine and its what I do too. I just tried to point out that the overall health of the bay and delta waters can affect the quality of fishing for anadromous fish in an upstream paradise. Thats why I chose to talk about the San Joaquin. I am sorry if I came off bad on this. I think fly fishers are as an astute and vigilant bunch as any where water quality issues are concerned. The AR group is no exception. I was only hoping to convey the depth and scope of the problem giving the San Joaquin as an example of things gone wrong. I do hope things improve for the fish. Also I appreciate your stewardship in bringing up this very important subject of striped bass. I hope we always have them. HC

[Darian]

HC,.... I need to get off the caffeine form all of the ice tea/coffee.... Heat waves tend to do this to me..... :roll: :roll: :P :twisted:

Believe me, I enjoy a good/lively debate/discussion but sometimes I get a little carried away. :oops: :oops: Hope I didn't lecture too much.... :oops:

Your choice of the San Joaquin as an example is, without question, one of what will happen to all of the waterways in this state if we're not attentive/informed..... 8) 8) When I was about 12-14 years of age, I went with a family to the headwaters of the San Joaquin to fish for Trout. It was a beautiful place and good fishing. :D I wasn't old enough to appreciate/understand what wold occur when the river was cut-off by dams and virtually destroyed below them.... :? :? Now, I think I do.... :(

During it's heyday, the fishing for Salmon/Steelhead/Trout/Stripers/Shad must've been absolutely wonderful.... :D :D What a completely needless loss.... :x :x :x

[JJohnson]

I must say that you all are pretty funny, or, more accurately, you make me laugh. I've heard and read any number of complaints about all species of fish, good and bad. I'm aware of the intent of the delta stamp and the withholding of the monies. I'm aware how many, many fish are killed by striped bass. I'm aware that Fish & Game want as many stripers taken legally and killed as possible. And I could go on and on and on as so many of you do. Do your best to clean up after yourself, revel in the nature around you, protect it as best you can, and quit worrying so much about what others are and are not doing. You'll live longer, be much happier, and do more good in the long run. Take a Midol and go fish instead of spending so much time preaching to the choir on a bulletin board.

[David Lee]

I must say that you all are pretty funny, or, more accurately, you make me laugh. I've heard and read any number of complaints about all species of fish, good and bad. I'm aware of the intent of the delta stamp and the withholding of the monies. I'm aware how many, many fish are killed by striped bass. I'm aware that Fish & Game want as many stripers taken legally and killed as possible. And I could go on and on and on as so many of you do. Do your best to clean up after yourself, revel in the nature around you, protect it as best you can, and quit worrying so much about what others are and are not doing. You'll live longer, be much happier, and do more good in the long run. Take a Midol and go fish instead of spending so much time preaching to the choir on a bulletin board.

No comment - David

[randy]

how about a second child tax like the Chinese used to use. All proceeds go to conservation. Or they had that other idea about drowning them ... well we'll save that one for later. ----- Any body can get a initative on the ballot these days all you have to do is dream up some doublespeak like "the new family values initative" and hang out in the mall.

[randy]

8) 8) 8) -- hey these are fun

[Darian]

Hi "jjohnson" and "Randy",.... Just a note let you know that someone is posting some off point stuff on this thread and using your ID's....

If you haven't got anything intelligent to contribute to the discussion you should choose to keep it to your self....

[David Lee]

What a fun weekend .... eh , boys ?? :roll: :o

Capt. Mike McKenzie will be along in a day or two to dish out the skinny on this situation .

Capt. Mike , along w/ Red Bartly (hope I got the last name right , Red ...) have been at the forefront of the water/striper/delta issues longer than just about anyone .

I've asked Mike to help us find some CONSTRUCTIVE ways to get in on the battle to sink the SDIP .... or at least give it a good try .

Off to take my Midol now ..... These cramps are KILLIN' me - :P

David

P.S. - Goodnight , jj .... sleep tight ! :twisted:

[randy]

hey darian- sorry - your probably right. I'm with you, It's just that sometimes I think this state is going to grow until people turn on there faucets and no water comes out , but if everybody throws up there hands and says we're screwed I guess it will happen for sure.