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View Full Version : Cork or Foam?



Adam Grace
03-27-2005, 11:08 AM
I prefer Foam poppers with rubber leggs for Bass myself.

Paint usually chips off of cork, foam stays the same.

I think that the bass might tend to hold onto the fly longer with a soft life like foam compared to a hard bodies popper.

What do you like?

Jay Murakoshi
03-27-2005, 11:21 AM
Cork bodies and sponge body spiders. But I do prefer the balsa wood poppers

Jay

Adam Grace
03-27-2005, 11:50 AM
What a stupid oversight on my part. Jay thanks for showing me my mistake. I sent a PM to Eugene to find out how tho modify the poll question. If I can change the poll I will definately add balsa. I am embarassed.

The trouble of shavinf and forming the basla wood has kept me away from using that material. I realize that basl popper are a true fly tying art form but I am just too lazy. Leo Gutteres makes some great balsa poppers.

I will add balsa to the poll if I can.

Hairstacker
03-27-2005, 12:49 PM
Adam, no choice for deer hair? :cry:

Darian
03-27-2005, 08:06 PM
I'm with mike..... 8) I fish Deer Hair poppers/sliders and foam spiders with rubber legs (gonna try the foam frog this year 8) ) more than any other body type for BB/sunfish..... :D :D

I actually like the way deer hair (depending on how it's tied) can soak up water and float lower or sink slowly.... 8) 8) 8)

k.hanley
03-27-2005, 09:16 PM
...Deerhair for subtle stuff
...Foam for waking action
...Balsa for booming vibes (especially in the dark)

That's the way I use the stuff. All good materials with something to offer.
Cheers, Ken

David Lee
03-27-2005, 11:44 PM
With all of the new materials(and "old"stuff) out there , I'd hate to have to choose just one . I think the next 10 or so years are going to see some more MAJOR innovation regarding floating flies .

Take a good long look at the Gurgler's popularity and applications - I've never seen a surface fly take off with fishers like that one . Another neat one is the Crease fly - I just tyed up a few a while back and fished one for the first time 2 weeks ago ... The way the Crease fly pops and spits , jinks back and forth like the old Rebel Pop-R plug .... Just unreal to watch that fly work !!

Balsa will always have a place with tyers - look at the classic Pencil Popper 'ala Dave Whitlock , or one of Jay Murakoshi's big salty Poppers .... Classic craftsmanship never goes out of style (or fish-catching power , either) . The learning curve to work Balsa is steep , but well worth spending the time to master .

Cork .... what can I say ?? Cork was there at the beginning of fly fishing in America , still works like a charm . Leo Gutteries makes just about the best Cork Poppers around (I think Leo uses cork instead of Balsa .... I don't want to cut-up the few that I have to find out ....) . Betts are a close second (you can buy the Betts , you can't buy Leo's :cry: ) . A well-crafted Cork bug will be hard to destroy .

Deer Hair is fun to work with once you get the hang of it . Still a measure of a fly tyers skill , a Deer-Hair bug will catch fish as well as it catches the eyes of tyers in the know .

Silicone has opened up new opportunities for surface bugs .... Bob Popovics created a MONSTER with his Siliclones ..... Still rare to see anyone tying/using them , though I don't know why . Silicone/wool flies
are always in my box and account for some BIG fish !!

Yes .... I'm long winded , but it's a great subject to talk about !! Now , all we need is a line that floats :!: David

Hairstacker
03-28-2005, 12:34 AM
David, very nice comments on bug options, I really enjoyed reading them. You know me, I've always been a devotee of the classic deerhair bugs but, I got to admit, Leo's poppers sure are head turners, especially the ones with the bunches of deer hair coming off the sides towards the rear of the hook -- reminds me of poppers of the early/mid 20th century. But I have yet to see a bass fly move like the crease fly you tested two weeks ago. I have got to learn how to tie those, as the one you gave me is just too darn pretty to use for anything but display. I suspect the action on those things are just going to drive those Delta bass insane. In fact, it has precisely the action I was hoping to simulate by tying a deer hair popper with a Tru-Turn side-offset hook. You tie an amazing variety of flies but I'm curious, do you have a favorite topwater bass bug? Is it the Cottonmouth?

By the way, Rio claims they've come up with a floating fly line with a tip that doesn't sink, I'm sure you've seen the ads. I haven't heard of anyone yet who's fished with one, so who knows. . . .

David Lee
03-28-2005, 09:35 AM
Guys - sorry to wander off-topic .... but Hairstacker has questions ...

1.- Favorite topwater bug ?? As far as Deerhair flies ... The Cottonmouth , followed closely by the Umpqua Swimming Frog (another great Whitlock fly) . The only cork bug I've used a lot is the Sneakey Pete . I haven't used the foam stuff enough yet to form an opinion as to my favorite .

2.- Floating lines . Everyone and their mother (manufactures , fly shop employees , guides ...) will tell you that "brand X" or "brand Z" is the best , highest floating , never needs cleaning .... flyline around . I am beyond sick of shelling out $60.00 + dollars a pop for lines that sink after a few trips , have coatings that peel off after a while , or just plain SINK right out of the box - I don't believe any of the hype anymore , having bought 30 or so different "floaters" in the past 10 years THAT DIDN'T FLOAT !!

That's why I use sinking lines and rarely fish the surface anymore . Even if I was "well-heeled" enough to get whatever line I wanted , untill I see one that works , the powers that be ain't gettin' anymore of my hard earned cash for bunk gear . David

Darian
03-28-2005, 11:25 AM
So David,..... I guess we could say that you have a full stock of intermediate sink rate fly lines..... :shock: :shock: Of course, the flip side of this is that you,ve got a bunch of flats lines that you don't have to buy :P :P :P :P :P Where's a Bonefish when you need 'em :?: :?:

Adam Grace
03-29-2005, 10:11 PM
Well guys I added balsa wood poppers to the mix with Eugene's help. I did not add spun deer hair because it is not quite the same to me like the other harder materials.

Hairstacker
03-30-2005, 01:02 AM
Tell me, what has the world come to when a popper poll doesn't offer deerhair poppers as a choice? Are synthetics displacing time-honored, traditional, natural materials? Does not cork and balsa have more in common with deerhair than FOAM? Is nothing sacred anymore? Should I be threading plastic worms onto my Orvis bass hooks?!? Whew, there, sorry, just had to get that off my chest. :lol:

Darian
03-30-2005, 09:42 AM
YEAH HAIRSTACKER :!: :!: :!: What he said :!: :!: :!: :!:

Adam Grace
03-30-2005, 09:47 AM
Hair, nothing is sacred anymore.

People are now fly fishing with flies made entirely out of plastic, the "Gummy Minnow" for example. There is basically no tying involved with the construction of that fly. You simply fold the sili skin over the hook in different ways and trim to shape. People are using hot glue sticks to make egg patterns, I know, I've tried it. Fly tying has branched out in all different ways.

My lazy butt will stick with simple pre-shaped foam and cork popper boddies. I've spun enough deer already.

I'm glad to hear that you are still a practitioner of the old ways. Keep spinning deer hair alive for the others.

Hairstacker
03-30-2005, 11:05 AM
Practitioner of the old ways? Whilst it's true I am somewhat of a traditionalist, I also feel deerhair poppers are every bit as effective, if not more so, than other designs.

No less an authority than Dave Whitlock said, "A bass bug made of clipped deer hair will nearly always be held in a bass's mouth two or three times longer than a hard plastic or wooden fly or lure of the same size and shape. In fact bass can inhale and exhale a hard fly or lure so fast it's easy to think they actually missed it. I've often observed this faster-than-a-blink reaction when testing new fly designs on bass I keep in large aquariums and ponds."

William Tapply posits that "commercial hard-bodied bugs are designed to make a single kind of noise. They pop, push water, or slide. Low-riding porous deerhair bugs, on the other hand, can be manipulated to give you whatever you want: that delicious bass-attracting glug and gurgle, a quiet, bubbly slither, or an attention-getting ker-PLOOP. If you want a POP that will wake up a distant bass, a hard tug on a big flat-nosed deerhair bug will create a noise almost as loud as a cup-faced cork popper." He also notes, "The heavier and denser the material, the harder it will hit the water and the more likely it will spook rather than attract a bass. . . It's hard not to make them [deerhair bugs] fall onto the water with an enticing splat or plop."

Nick Lyons has written, "The soft fly can be manipulated with so much more subtlety than a hard lure -- it can be stopped dead, flirted, fluttered, eased and swum in any direction. . . ."

Not to mention, it can be made to alternately dive and resurface or swum underwater with a wiggle not unlike a tadpole. Personally, I see no advantage of the cork or balsa popper over a deerhair one and foam poppers are probably on par, if we set aside tradition and aesthetics. Hopefully no one will conclude deerhair poppers are old fashioned and thusly surmise they're a second choice these days with all the other options available.

David Lee
03-30-2005, 11:30 AM
O.K. , O.K. ..... everybody just simmer down . Opinions are just that -opinions . To each his (or her) own . No use in getting all worked-up over these little things , there's room for ALL types of Bass bugs .

EXCEPT gummy-minnows and hard eggs - :twisted: THEY AIN'T FLIES :twisted:

Anyone that uses those two "things" would be the kind of person that has NO appreciation for the PROPER use of Rancid Bear Grease - Now , give each other big hugs and go back to your corners ...... :idea:

David (peaceful) Lee

Hairstacker
03-30-2005, 12:42 PM
Ah David, I ain't worked up at all. Just presenting my opinion that deerhair bugs have as much rightful place today in the bass bugger's arsenal as anything else. Just didn't want any new buggers looking here for information to dismiss them as obsolete is all.

I agree wholeheartedly, to each his own. Personally, I like 'em all, and I have deerhair, cork, balsa, AND foam poppers, each with and without rubber legs, laying around here, although my heart lies with deerhair. I especially like those green and yellow foam frogs Adam ties with the 3 colors of rubber legs -- VERY good looking fly and has to be just a KILLER for largemouth bass. I plan to study his pattern and tie some of them up for myself. :D And, as I've already mentioned, I was extremely impressed with that crease fly you demonstrated for me that was tied with sandwiched foam. In fact, any time I get a package in the mail, I study the packing material very carefully to see if it might be useful to craft bass bugs. Here's a picture of just such a packing material foam fly I tied not all that long ago, along with a couple of more traditional deerhair bugs (although the gurgler does have a couple strands of krystal flash in the tail :shock: :lol: ):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/Sachlil/FoamBassBug2.jpg

Adam Grace
03-30-2005, 10:39 PM
I was not trying to argue or start something either. I like the different opinions on this board. If everybody had the same opinion this board would become boring. I agree with Hair that all the different materials are great. We all have our favorites.

Hair, I like you rubber legged gurgler thing. That should excite almout any bass. :!: