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View Full Version : Neutralizers......



Darian
03-21-2005, 11:26 PM
Hello everyone,.... Saw Lee H's Neutralizer on his site and wondered if anyone has tried it, yet :?: :?: I kinda like the idea of a suspender pattern and I just like the looks of it..... 8) 8)

David Lee
03-22-2005, 12:05 PM
Hi Darian .... I'm a little confused (not an uncommon state for me to be in ...) .

If a fly is "Neutrallly Buoyant" , what is the purpose ?? A flyline cannot sink to a given depth (let's say .... 8 feet) and stay there without sinking more or rising during retrieve . If a fly will suspend during a pause in the retrieve , what is there to keep the flyline from sinking and dragging the fly down ??

I'm not ragging Lee H. and his work or his flies , I just don't quite understand how a fly/retrieve can HOLD at a given depth with regards to the line sinking during a pause .

David

Darian
03-22-2005, 01:55 PM
Hi David,..... Not sure that my statement about this fly being neutral is correct. I took the name and jumped to a conclusion. :roll: :roll: It might be that the fly is a floater/diver (.....or could be modified to do that)

Since fish seem to hold/suspend at times, maybe this fly design (slow or no sink rate) works when that's the case.... :? :? Or, maybe the fly conforms to the sink rate of the line :?: :?: :?: (all speculation on my part)

Anyway, that's why I asked whether anyone's used it yet and what did they think..... :wink: :wink:

David Lee
03-22-2005, 08:34 PM
Hi Darian , I was not trying to throw crap .... just thinking it would be nice to have a line that you could be set for a specific depth that would get there and "stop" ...

Damm !! That sounds CRAZY , but with the way things are moving forward these days , you never know what will be next .

David (who is STILL waiting for a line that floats for more than 1 trip)

Darian
03-22-2005, 11:22 PM
Hi David,...... No problemo 8) 8) Just curious if anyone had tried the fly yet. I have a feeling that since there hasn't been many responses (other than ours) that everyones feeling the same as you 8) 8)

Haven't even heard from Lee H., yet.....

Hairstacker
03-23-2005, 12:33 AM
Guys, I have no idea about the fly in question but I did learn a couple of years ago that if I tie a Clouser with very small dumbbells and fish it with a floating line, it tends to sink so slowly that it effectively suspends in place, so to speak, between strips, thus allowing me to fish it just a foot or less below the surface but over submerged weed beds for bass. That would be my idea of "neutral buoyancy." Perhaps Lee has come up with a set of patterns that do something very similar?

Lee Haskin
03-23-2005, 10:30 AM
You are all right!

Certainly the fly will follow the fly line, however, if you are using a floating line the Neutralizer will stop, and remain stopped until you strip. When using the Tarpon Neutralizer, with a floating or Int. fly line, we were able to cast much further ahead of the cruising tarpon and simply wait for them to move into position. Since we were casting to fish in 2-5' of water, the advantage was incredible. We were able to lead the fish more, and avoid spooking them, and the fly was about 1' under the surface (pulled down a bit by the heavy bite tippet).

With standard Clousers or other weighted flies, the fly will drop the instant the strip is finished, EVEN BEFORE the line pulls it down. In other words, the fly never really stops.
With the Neutralizer, the fly will stop dead for a couple of seconds before the line (like T-14) actually pulls it down.

Note: I developed this neutral buoyancy concept for winter stripers, but the "jury is still out" on the effectiveness of the Neutralizer for stripers.

Here is the idea:
For winter stripers, they seem to follow for long distances, and need to be teased into striking. Now if the fly actually stops, and then starts again, you will be able to impart more distinct movement changes to the fly, which seems to be very positive.
When fishing both types of flies, this past winter, one after the other, my success rate was much better with the Neutralizer. In fact, I have added a rattle to an extended tail (similar to the Rattlin' Gurgler), which may be even better, although we have done only a small amount of testing, so far.

I think the Neutralizer has great potential for large mouth bass, as well. We all know how black bass respond to a bug that is absolutely still, then twitched. I think the Neutralizer could do the same thing subsurface, as the floating bug does on top. Of course short sink tip lines, slow sinking lines, or floating lines would allow the "stop" to last longer, and be more dramatic.

Another success:
I used a Pike Neutralizer this past September, in Alaska, and it proved deadly. The weather had turned cold and the pike had moved out into deeper (3-6') water, and were holding around sunken logs and limbs. I was able to use a HiD sink tip line and suspend the fly over the logs. In almost every case, the pike would hit, after a 2-4 sec. stop, and as soon as the fly would move!

If this still isn't clear, let me know.

Cheers,
Lee Haskin
Lee's Fly Specialties
www.gurglersonline.com

David Lee
03-23-2005, 10:40 AM
A great mind + a good idea = A WINNER !!!

Very cool concept , Lee ...... the I line should do the trick for a long suspend w/ controled depth . You seem to have the market cornered as far as building a better mousetrap these days (rattlin' hollywood Gurgler) .
Are you coming to Kienes spring fair ?? I'd like to see these bugs in person .

Thanks for the lowdown , David

Terry Thomas
03-23-2005, 11:18 AM
If you would like to learn more about the Neutralizer and Lee, there is a nice interview in the latest Cal. Fly Fisher (April). Lee did a tying session at Kiene's earlier this year and showed us how to tie this pattern. When the rains stop...hope to give the Neutralizer a try.

Lee Haskin
03-23-2005, 11:18 AM
Hi David,

Yes, I will be at Kiene's Fair, and will be tying the Neutralizer. I will have a "formula sheet" for everyone too.
In addition, I will have a good supply of pre-cut foam too! New colors and sizes!
Also, bulk 3' lengths of mono weedguard material!

When you change hook sizes and types you need a different foam/weight combination. I tried for over a year to design a neutral buoyancy fly around the EC 413, riding hook point up, but it failed. Once I inverted the hook, and move the foam to the opposite side of the gape, I was able to find success.
I know it looks crazy using a jig hook tied upside down, but it hooks the fish just as well. Since the jig hook is superior to a standard J hook, for stripers, I really wanted to make it work. Since it rides hook point down it is less weedless, but it is quite easy to add a double weedguard, which is what I'm doing for large mouth.

David, I really don't know if this fly design theory will be more effective than other great patterns, for winter stripers, but it will be fun doing the testing. Grin!

Also....when adding the extended tail, with the rattle, the Neutralizer has some VERY interesting action. At the end of the strip, the fly will swerve to the side, similar to many conventional swim baits. This could prove to be another "bullet in the gun" for us striper nuts! Grin!

I am using the Targus FoxxFur too, which gives the fly more movement, when using slow, and subtle retreives.

See you at Kiene's Fair!

Lee

Bill Kiene semi-retired
03-23-2005, 11:24 AM
We are all excited to try this new concept in many different settings.

http://www.gurglersonline.com/images/StriperNeutralizer.jpg

These are some 'Striper Neutralizers' from Lee's web site.

http://www.gurglersonline.com/