Surface or Sub-Surface for Bass?

[Adam Grace]

I prefer to fish on the surface for bass. The explosive takes keep me coming back :!: But I have caught a consistantly larger average of fish while fishing streamers sub-surface.

One of our customers is a bass fanatic.
He fishes subsurface most of the time.

How so you guys generally fish.

[Eugene Graham]

Nothing beats seeing the water just explode from a bass taking a bug on the top. Hearing the bug go pop pop pop then BOOM!!!! SPLASH!!!! and then the heart going THUMP THUMP THUMP. I would rather catch one fish topside than subsurface anyday. I will still take them with a streamer sub-surface though any day. My vote goes to Surface.

[Hairstacker]

Hi Adam! I prefer to fish on the surface as well for the very reason you cited -- nothing like the heart attack-inducing strike of a good bass on top. Gets my heart racing every time. A.J. McClane, who probably fished for and caught just about every fresh and saltwater gamefish of his time put it like this:

"I suppose the peculiar fascination bass bugging has is in the strike. To see a heavy fish rise from under the lily pads or slip out from under a dense growth of weeds to smash at a floating bug is the most tense moment an angler can experience at the end of any search." -- A.J. McClane, The Practical Fly Fisherman (1953)

Having said that, I've also enjoyed fishing a chartreuse and white Clouser with a little bit of flash -- I tie them with small dumbbells for this purpose, and have found I can jerk it in short spurts (like a small, fleeing baitfish) just under the surface where I can still see the strike. Under a few, very specific conditions I've learned to recognize, I have found a Clouser superior to a topwater bug.

Curious what streamer(s) you use to catch your consistently bigger bass? I've tried a Mickey Finn but did not find it nearly as effective as a Clouser.

[Hairstacker]

Hi Eugene! I guess you posted while I was posting, ha. As far as your comments, my sentiments exactly! :)

[David Lee]

I'll take 'em where I can - Top , mid , or bottom .
In the creeks I fish , most are sub-surface . Lakes , wherever they want to eat ! David

[Adam Grace]

I tie a rainbow trout sar-mul-mac like Andy Guibord's "Striper Caviar." No picture available.

I also use a rainbow clouser, the one below. Also works well for stripers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/flyguyag/flies/rainbowclouser.jpg

Chartreuse clousers have also caught some bass.

[David Lee]

WORLD-CLASS TYE !!!!! Shoot , Adam ... that thing looks so good you should be beat with a Bobcat !!! D.J.L.

[Jay Murakoshi]

I've been studying the habits of bass in water conditions such as clarity, temperature, etc....
Since moving to the valley, I've been in my bass mode. I've designed 18 different patterns for bass that should work. Some of the most dominant colors are black/purple, purple/chartreuse, etc.... I have come up with 7 different worms made from Llama hair. slinky fiber and yak hair tied onto a gamakatsu jig hook with a cone head and tungsten bead for rapid decent. I'm also working on a few crank bait flies.
I'm dragging them through my swimming pool. If the water wasn't 42 degrees, I would try some underwater filming.

Jay

[Darian]

Hi Jay,..... Under the "Striper" topic I posted to find out something about Lamprey..... Description, fishability, etc. 8)

Your worm flies sound interesting. 8) Does it sound like there might be some cross-over into the Lamprey imitation :?: :?:

[gryhackl]

Taking them on the surface is THE reason I fish for bass. However, this time of year when the water is cold they just won't come up so I will go subsurface and work the flies very slowly.

[Jay Murakoshi]

Darian,

The llama hair worm could easily be made into a lamprey style fly. We would probably have to change the weight distribution on the hook, so it would swim differently. Or keep it so it jigs up and down. With the llama hair, you can blend so many different colors and add enhancers on top of that.
I'll try to find a photo of a lamprey through the internet and take a look at the colors and see what I come up with

Jay

[Darian]

Thanks Jay,..... If you have access to one, there's a description and photo's of Pacific/River Lamprey in The Audubon, "Field Guide to North American Fishes,......" Photo pages 42, 442. Written description at pages 327/328.

Hope this helps..... :D

[Jay Murakoshi]

Darian

Thanks, I'll check it out and see what comes off the vise

Jay

[Hairstacker]

Hi Adam! VERY nice tie! I really like the bi-colored head -- how'd you do that? Marking pens?

[Jay Murakoshi]

Just found the CD that has the rainbow sea habit bucktail. I think the photo's are ok but it doesn't have the captions like the white knight does.
Have to do some work on it and it should be ready to send out

Jay

[Adam Grace]

Hair, I like to make my flies look good. For the colored head I use two colored markers, pink and olive. I first coat the head in Sally Hansens "Hard as nails" onto my white Danville Falt Waxed Nylon thread. After the nail polish dries, I color the head. I reapply another coat of hard as nails after the marked color dires.

I think it adds a great finishing touch.

[Hairstacker]

Adam, I agree, it does add a nice finishing touch! Thanks for explaining your process. Let's see, I have 41,347 items of fly tying materials but, once again for the 10,000th time, it's back to the shop for more materials (markers, sheesh....) :lol:

[Darian]

Hey Mike,.... Is that a fly on the line in your picture (avatar) or a microfiche :?: :P :P :P :P

[Hairstacker]

Ha, ha, very funny. I'll have you know, sir, that happens to be a bluegill on the end of my line, thank you. My kids took the picture when I took them fly fishing for bluegills last summer. Sheesh, that's the problem when you fish mostly alone, you have no pictures of yourself with fish. Guess I'll have to take the kids fly fishing for tarpon. :lol:

[Darian]

Hi Jay,..... Noticed Lamprey individually vacuum packed in a local bait shop. The price was astronomical. :shock: I was thinking of buying one to get an idea of color/size but don't think it's worth it. :roll:

The small lamprey was about 8" in length and shaped a lot like an elongated candlefish/eulachon. :wink: I couldn't see the coloring weel as the packaging included a lot of blood from the carcasse. Also posted under "Stripers"

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Bass commando Leo Gutterres only uses hard bodied poppers he makes for getting them on top.

Bass adict Pete Peterson on uses a sinktip line with sinking flies.

I am going to go out with guide Capt. Kevin Doran this summer in the PM to get a big bass in the Delta. He likes things like Dahlberg Divers and Umpqua Swimming Baitfish.

http://www.stripersurf.com/images/zaun/Dahlberg.jpg

This picture is from the "Striper Surf" web site.

http://stripersurf.com/index.html

[David Lee]

Here's a brace of Leo Gutterres poppers , if you can get your hands on some , DO IT !!! They are the BEST ones around !! David
http://members.sparedollar.com/fadoe/IM001989.JPG

[Hairstacker]

Hi David! Those flies are so pretty, I wouldn't want to fish 'em -- those bugs should be framed! I really like how he has the hair hanging off of both sides on the fly on the right. Reminds me of bass bugs tied during the early/mid decades of the last century. Fly tying art at its very best....

[David Lee]

Mike , can you post a photo of the two you have ?? Leo Gs bugs are just unbelievable , I really need to buy some to FISH , hard to put the few I have at risk ! David

[Hairstacker]

Leo sells these things?!? Any idea where? I'll try to post pictures of the two I have....

[Hairstacker]

Here you go, two more masterpieces by Leo. By the way, I love the way he cups out the faces -- you can just visualize these things popping away....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/Sachlil/LeoGBugs.jpg

[Darian]

Hello evryone,..... How many have used a "slider" to imitate an injured minnow??? I still have one old Plastic headed slider produced by Heddon. In its time, it accounted for quite few fish. 8) Nowadays, cork or deer hair bodies are to more prevalent for bass but small (Sneaky Pete's) sliders're still popular for blugill/sunfish..... :D

If you come upon black bass "blitzing" shad, you can't beat a slider..... Easliy picked up and recast; hook sets are never a question :shock: (use a stout leader 8) 8) )

[Adam Grace]

Darian, I have caught my largest bass on a slider. I reversed a cupped popper head. Then tied and painted the slider in frog colors.

I hooked the 6 lber 3 feet from the bank.

Very exciting :!:

[Hairstacker]

Adam, wow, a 6 lber?!? Do you have a picture of the slider you used? I have yet to catch a bass that big on a topwater deerhair bug. Kind of wondering if anyone else has....

[Adam Grace]

Hair, I will have to dig for it, but I have it somewhere. It is not digital, just plain film. I caught it about 5 years ago at a private lake in Sonora. Very exciting to see it blow up on my slidder so close to shore. It was like a crocodile snatching a unsuspecting gazel by a watering hole.

:!: KABOOM :!:

Top water is what's exciting about bass fishing.

[Hairstacker]

KABOOM, ha, love it! :D GREAT analogy! Reminds me of that section of the Nile where the 20'+ crocodiles wait every year for the annual wildebeast migration. Awesome spectacle to see crocs leaping out of the water to seize adult wildebeast by the shoulders and drag them under. :shock:

[Darian]

Adam,..... My slider is in the injured minnow fashion (with the body laid on its side), hook down and tail/wing tied in flat. 8) Makes for an interesting presentation. Plus, a slow retireve may not always be the best one with an injured minnow....

No real big bass on it, yet. :roll: Probably because it's an antique and I don't want to put it in jeopardy of loss. 8) Gotta get busy and tie some. :roll:

[David Lee]

Old Bud Purdy of the great state of TEXAS tyed his "Perch" the same way ... Brain-injured Bluegill on it's side w/ a diving collar , good stuff !!

Got to love Brain-injured bait . David

PS - Bud , Tom Nixon , and Charles Waterman are no longer with us - We stand on the backs of great men .