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Hairstacker
02-06-2005, 01:05 PM
Ok, after scanning through both threads, I've compiled the final list of tyers for the first ever Kiene's Bulletin Board fly swap! Also, a hearty Thank You(!!!) to our host, David Lee, for kicking off and pulling this historic event together:

1 David Lee - Andy Burk’s Dragonbuggers
2 Hairstacker - Golden Stone
3 Darian - Whitlock Fox Squirrel (Emerger)
4 PM - Cal Bird's Stone
5 Jason - Olive Bird of Prey
6 Jeff Goding - Caddis Fly Larvae
7 Terry Thomas - Big Black Stones
8 SullyTM - Ammonite Nymph
9 Gregg - Barred Black Rubberleg Stonefly
10 MSP - Flying Carpet Emerger
11 Adam Grace - March Brown Nymph

Anyway, if you post what you're tying, I'll update the list above. 'Course, nothing wrong with keeping silent and surprising everyone. :)

SullyTM
02-06-2005, 04:31 PM
Hairstacker...Maybe Bill Will display the "First" Kiene's Fly Shop Forum Fly Swap?? Who knows...the Dirty Dozen may motivate more people to start tying. I had to try out one the Ammonite today on my local creek...For the past week I'v been praying to the Grand Gods of Fly Fishing for some steelhead to show up...Nothing but Sacramento Suckers...until today! Good clarity and the sun was shining...Boy Howdy if a small school of about 12 weren't swimming with the suckers! Almost fell into the creelk I got so excited! I know the American is the place to be, however, steelhead in Contra Costa County waters is a good ecological sign. Did I catch one? No! But I did get a strike and I know it wasn't a sucker. My fly was taken hard and away the fish went...lasted about 10 seconds but for this neophyte it was well worth the wait...In 2 weeks it'll be time for the AR!

Jgoding
02-06-2005, 11:02 PM
Man, I'm going backwards... Had 5 flies done but didn't really care for the pattern I developed so I went back to the drawing board.....

I have one new fly done....and I think it's a winner! I'm going with caddis larvae that should be a killer on the American I'm hoping...I'm going to try to get a pic of it but not sure if the camera I have will capture it....

Jeff

Jgoding
02-06-2005, 11:03 PM
Hey Sully,

The ammonite pattern... are you using the one developed by Steve Thornton or something else.... Just wondering

Jeff

Darian
02-06-2005, 11:20 PM
Hi Guys,..... Unless someone else has already targeted this one, my contribution to the swap will be the Whitlock Fox Squirrel (Emerger). 8) 8)

Gregg
02-07-2005, 12:14 AM
Hey all... It looks like I'll be tying a #10 black rubberleg stonefly. I'm stoked to be a part of this swap, it looks like fun. Do we have a due date yet?

Hairstacker
02-07-2005, 12:37 AM
Hi Gregg! Yep, all flies are due no later than March 5.

SullyTM
02-07-2005, 09:27 AM
Jeff, The Ammonite pattern I'm using is the Steve Thorton design. I came across it several months ago but have never tied one until David put together this fly swap. I'm tying them on #8 TMC 2499SPBL(funny how every hook manufacturer has secret codes!) Barbless. I've changed a few items in the pattern only because the instructions are in error in a couple of places, or I can't figure out the "you should know that" aspect of the instructions. Also, I try not to use lead because of the environmental concerns...The one hurdle I keep coming up against is the splaying of the feather on the thorax...I'm having fun with this pattern. Thank you.

Jgoding
02-07-2005, 10:42 AM
Hi Sully,

You think all the hook manufacturers could freaking name all their hooks the same don't you... It would make our lives much easier...no tmc 200r's in stock, well, I'll get the mustad 200r's then.... but nooo, it's like tmc 200r, where's the damn mustad chart.... that hook looks the same, it's a Mustad 458772544554, but wait, the hook comparison chart says I need the Mustad 4552124585650.....

That ammonite pattern is cool, and yes, the hackle splaying part is a bit tricky.... never tied one, so I wouldn't really have any pointers, but I've tried the hackle thing with other patterns.... comes out OK...

Adam Grace
02-07-2005, 08:30 PM
I am designing a new March Brown nymph from scratch. I am not done with the design yet but when I finish I will post a picture onto this forum.

March Browns will be happening soon on the Yuba :!:

Gregg is desgining a dark rubber legged stonefly with the new fine barred rubber legs. Those legs make flies look bitchen :!:

PatrickM
02-08-2005, 11:57 AM
Hey y'all. I'll be tying Cal Bird's stone in a #8. Should get them done and in the mail this week.
pm

David Lee
02-08-2005, 12:16 PM
Our very own MSP wins the award for being the first guy to get his bugs to me (the prize is , you get to buy the Beer , Mike !! :D :D :D ) . His fly-photo is in the thread dealing with fly reproduction - does it have a name , Mike ?? Great job on them , David

MSP
02-08-2005, 01:26 PM
Hi David, I was waiting around for a repairman the other day so I decided to just get after it and "get er done!" Let's just call them the "Flying Carpet Emerger" I have some type of material I got a long time ago, so I started tying almost all my flys using it. I tied some Elk Hair Caddis using just the material, body and wing. Have to use hackle though for floatation. Anyway my buddy I fish with a lot started calling them the "Carpet Caddis" I kind of liked it so thus the name. Just hope they can catch a fish for somebody. By the way the beer is cold, just stop on by.

BTW: Thanks for handling the swap. Hope to see ya on the river some day.

mike

David Lee
02-08-2005, 03:33 PM
Gentlemen (loose phrasing here ... :twisted: ) , I would like to invite the Flyswapers to my humble home for BBQ ribs and chicken around the SECOND WEEK OF MARCH :!: - if ya think this sounds like fun , say so (I'll do it as long as one of you says yes !) . I think it would be a swell chance to talk/relate/make plans/ have a Beer/get photos of bugs for Bill's shop . I'm just off I-80 and I-5 . I'll supply the dead animals and a few green bottles (the wife gives her permission , of course :roll: )
Lemmy know .... David
PS - Future swap masters , figure out what catagories you want to do when you host (March and April) and let everyone know please .

Terry Thomas
02-08-2005, 04:54 PM
:lol:I'll be sending over some big black stones next week. BBQ sounds good to me.
Terry

MSP
02-08-2005, 06:25 PM
Hey David,

A little get together sounds good. Like to meet some of the other posters and swappers. I will be out of town the weekend of the 13th if that was the weekend you were planning on. Let us know the exact date and if I'm around it sounds like fun.

mike

Adam Grace
02-09-2005, 12:32 AM
David, the BBQ get together sounds great :!:

I'm in and I will bring some more beer :twisted:

Gregg
02-09-2005, 12:58 AM
I am way in for the BBQ. Adam is too, he just dosen't know it yet (as long as there is beer, he's on it...) I should have my flies in by early next week.

Adam Grace
02-09-2005, 01:06 AM
David, The BBQ sounds great. I look forward to meeting the people I have not yet met.

I will be there and I will bring some more beer :twisted:

Jgoding
02-09-2005, 10:25 AM
As with anything, I will try to make it.... hahaha. I'll bring some sides or something as well. What do you guys like?? Salad, green, potato?? More meat....veggies....desserts?? I don't drink so I guess I'm bringing some Pepsi with me....

I guess I'm hosting the March Swap as well.... I was thinking crawdads and sculpins, how does that sound??? Or if something more generalized is preferred.... Bait/forage fish patterns...... Let me know what you guys think.... Darian, I know you want to host April?? If this is similar, let me know and I'll think of something else.

Jeff

David Lee
02-09-2005, 10:48 AM
Jeff - Crawdads and Sculpins sound FANTASTIC ... I might even send in one of each :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Perhaps the evening of Friday , March 11th ?? MSP , when are you leaving ? If not in town then , when is good ??
Terry , Gregg , Adam , Jeff , this should be an interesting evening (or day.... , whatever -)
Where are our other wayward Swappers ??? :roll: :roll: :roll: :twisted:
David

Darian
02-09-2005, 10:54 AM
Hi Jeff,..... No problemo on your pattern choice. I'm leaning toward steelhead patterns. (.....Still trying to avoid receiving a dozen egg patterns without offending anyone :P :P )

David,.... Altho I can't recall what it is, I've committed to something on the 19th of March. I'm up for the BBQ and would provide sides, etc. Like Jeff, I'm not a beer drinker. So, I'll be bringing soft drinks :roll: . Let me know what type of side(s) you need/want.....

David Lee
02-09-2005, 12:09 PM
Flyswappers - It won't be a "Beer-fest" , just some food , drinks , and chatter . We are all adults ( I think :roll: ) and will behave , right ???
Anyways , I hope we can work out a date that works for everybody .
Should be fun ! David PS - Mabee after the first day of "Crappie-thon" Adam , Gregg , and I can evaporate the Beer supply .... It'll be fun to watch the boys Floattube while green at 5:30 AM the next day :twisted:

Hairstacker
02-09-2005, 12:14 PM
Hi David! A get together does sound GREAT but I'll have to wait and see what day y'all settle on. Sure appreciate the offer, thanks!

PatrickM
02-09-2005, 12:19 PM
BBQ at David's sounds great. I promise to behave. :evil: Any of the dates mentioned above work for me.

MSP
02-09-2005, 04:21 PM
Hey David, some luck I have. We are leaving on the 11th and returning the 14th. Looks like I'm the only one with a schedule problem so don't plan around me. Sounds like you'll have a house full. Have a great time, I'll catch up with you guys later. :(

mike

Terry Thomas
02-09-2005, 06:08 PM
David,
The 19th is out for me...leading a CFFU trip to Pyramid. The week before works out.
Terry

Bill Kiene semi-retired
02-10-2005, 12:54 AM
I think this is wonderful and thanks for participating.

After it is over we will have to have Adam take some pictures and we will have to display the group of Adam's swap flies in the shop.

SullyTM
02-11-2005, 09:56 AM
David...I will be unable to attend the get-together. Thank you for offering up your digs.

Adam Grace
02-11-2005, 02:36 PM
David, the 11th sounds great. I get off work at 6pm but if you guys want to meet earlier I can ask Bill for some to leave early.

I want to appologize to you gentlemen. I did not want to gathering to turn into a fraternity drunken beer fest. Myself and Gregg are both around 25 years of age and still enjoy a beer or two. I am sorry if my "beer" comment offfended you. I look forward to meeting you in pearson at the gathering.

Thanks for setting it up David.

David Lee
02-11-2005, 04:25 PM
Adam , I sure as hell HOPE nobody was offended ! If we've gotten that tender/pollitically correct , I'd have to BBQ Tofu instead of little furry critters !!?!

The rules of the house are simple - My friends are ALL welcome , be yourselves , and have FUN !! From what I've read here , and the few I know personally , ALL Flyswappers are good fellas and I think that they are people I want to be around !!

Don't worry , be happy ! And .... don't forget the Beer :twisted:

David ( Scourge of Humanity ) Lee :mrgreen:

Hairstacker
02-11-2005, 05:35 PM
Well Adam, apology accepted, as I was offended . . . that no one suggested bringing a fine, single-malt Scotch, ha. :lol: Adam, speaking for myself, don't EVEN think about apologizing for bringing beer, especially on a future fishout. Fishing and fly tying can be hard work and liquids are important to keep us from getting overheated. It's a health issue, darn it! :)

Jgoding
02-11-2005, 05:41 PM
I wasn't offended, I just thought it be best if you guys knew you didn't need to bring beer for everyone coming... If you guys want to drink 9 beers each, more power too ya!!!

Jeff

Terry Thomas
02-11-2005, 08:39 PM
:lol: Hi David,
Just finished my dozen bugs. I don't live too far from you, I can drop them off at your place or even leave them at Bill's shop.
Thanks,
Terry

David Lee
02-11-2005, 10:24 PM
Hi Terry , feel free to give me a ring(916 920-0634) anytime . I'll be in the house all weekend fighting off the bug . David

Gregg
02-12-2005, 11:40 PM
I promise Adam and I will be on our best behavior :wink: , besides, we only drink non-alchololic beer, right? :twisted:

David Lee
02-13-2005, 11:17 PM
Here's an update !! I have received SullyTM's Ammonite nymphs , PM's Cal Bird Stoneflys , and MSP's Flying Carpet Emergers .... The photos suck due to the fact that I don't know my way around a digicam .

Every one of these bugs looks fantastic !! I can honestly say I thought they would be good , but I didn't expect them all to be THIS good . I think all of you will be suprised !!

You three fellows have gone above and beyond , whoever gets the extra box is going to be one lucky person !! David

Gregg
02-14-2005, 02:47 AM
1:44 am monday morning, or still sunday night? Finally done! Where do I send these little beasties? :lol: Sorry if they're not pretty, I'm still learning...

SullyTM
02-14-2005, 08:02 AM
Gregg...Go to bed! I'm still learning how to tie also. But staying up past your bedtime? David...I'm glad to hear the US Postal Service delivered them. I got asked 20 Qs at the post office and it was like: "Just mail them please!"

Jgoding
02-14-2005, 09:19 AM
David,

Ur killing me! You're implying the bar is raised very very very high!! hahahaha. Looking forward to seeing all the patterns as well. I got 5 done.....I'll drop em off next week hopefully, all 12....

Jeff

Hairstacker
02-14-2005, 04:29 PM
Jeff, don't worry about the bar being raised too high, as I will bring up the other end of the scale. :lol:

Adam Grace
02-14-2005, 08:00 PM
As a single unattached guy, I will be tying up some of the swap march brown patterns tonight. I think you guys will like this bug. I just hope that they will catch trout for you guys.

David Lee
02-16-2005, 12:50 AM
Our very own Terry Thomas sent in a box of Big Black Stones today . You Steelheaders are gonna want to see these things , size #4 and HEAVY - just the ticket for BIG winter-run fish and early-season Trout !

Mr. Thomas was also kind enough to send tying instructions along w/ said killer bugs - This swap is turning out to be the most fantastic thing I've seen in a long time . Thanks Terry , PM , MSP , and SullyTM !!!!

The rest of you .... get crackin' ! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
David

Adam Grace
02-16-2005, 01:07 AM
David, Right now I'm jus CRA..... . No CKIN yet. :D

I will work on them as soon as I can pry myself away from this board.

PatrickM
02-16-2005, 02:21 PM
Whew! I just found out my flies passed the DJL test. :lol: Can't wait to see the entire collection.

Hairstacker
02-16-2005, 02:38 PM
There's a test?!? Nobody said nuthin' 'bout no test. :shock: (Hairstacker starts looking for the smiley face that's sweating....)

Darian
02-17-2005, 10:04 PM
Hi David,.... The flies (Whitlock"s Red Fox Squirrel {Emerger}) are in the mail. 8) 8) Didn't include tying instructions as this fly pattern and tying instructions are documented on Whitlock's website or in his book.

Can't wait to see evryone else's flies 8) 8) :D

Gregg Machel
02-18-2005, 02:44 AM
Is this going to be a regular event? I'd like to get in on the next one.

David Lee
02-18-2005, 10:21 AM
Gcmachel - Keep your eyes open for Jgoding to call out the next one . He has dibs on March , Darian has the April swap .

Darian , thanks for getting those out .

David

PatrickM
02-18-2005, 01:28 PM
Any decisions on what the next one is going to be? Might be a good time to start working on some caddis patterns. :wink:

David Lee
02-18-2005, 01:51 PM
PM - anytime after March 5th , that's when this swap is done . Jeff Goding will pipe-up soon .

Darian , bugs just came in .... Very nice !!!

Mr. Goding , anything to say ???? (Hint , hint....)

David

Jgoding
02-18-2005, 02:30 PM
Hey Guys!! I was thinking of a Sculpin and Crawdad swap but I do realize that some good hatches of caddis etc.. will be coming off soon. I'm doing a caddis pattern now for this swap but it may be a little large for most uses but I'm betting it will knock them half pounders dead on the American.

So I will put this out on the table..... lets do a 2-fly swap.... a crawdad or sculpin pattern + a caddis pattern. I will do a pupa for the caddis and a sculpin. Let's say flies due by April 8th??? Should be plenty of time....

The cutoff date to get in will be March 7th, and I'll try to post a separate thread for the subject later today. We still have time to work this out, but anyone interested let me know and we'll see if we need to make a cut off in numbers or not... but around 13 people works out pretty well but I am willing to take a few more....

Jeff

David Lee
02-18-2005, 02:36 PM
A little ambitous there , are we Jeff ??
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Put me down for my own "Cranky Sculpin" and a Caddis TBA . D.J.L.

Crap ! I'd better get tyin' .....

Jgoding
02-18-2005, 02:55 PM
Yep, ambitious, that's my Middle Name!! I know it might seem like a lot of work, but I think it's possible. But we can hold off for a week or so and see what people think David.... don't get cracking yet.

Jeff

Darian
02-18-2005, 03:12 PM
Hi Jeff,.... Was just thinking about the Caddis portion of the swap. Do you want any restrictions :?: :?: Such as, dry, nymph, larva, emerger or size limits :?: Hmmmm,.... I guess if there are restrictions on type, you could end up with about 96 dry, Elk Hair Caddis patterns :P :P Tell me to shut up will ya :?:

(I'm going for a "Near Nuff Sculpin" and an unnamed caddis pattern {olive/grey colored} I've used in the Yuba with success.)

PatrickM
02-18-2005, 03:44 PM
Wow, this things getting out of control. I'm in!

Jgoding
02-18-2005, 04:06 PM
Hi PM;Darian,

I would like to cover all stages of the life cycle if we can.... or to try to avoid having all adults or nymphs etc.... I am tying a pattern based off of Steve Thorntons book.... www.virtual-nymph.com you can check it out probably.

Like I said, we have plenty of time to ponder this, but lets get the first swap behind us!!

Jeff

David Lee
02-23-2005, 02:14 PM
My Beautiful mail carrier just showed up .... in the mail today we have Swapflies from Adam and Gregg .

Adam's March Brown nymphs will take care of not only a March Brown hatch , but Green and Brown Drake nymphs , as well :!:

Gregg's #10 Black rubberleg Stones look like they'll pull the trigger on freestone streams and spring creeks alike - they should :twisted: MURDER :twisted: the Hat creek Trout on opener .

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you were lucky enough to get in on this first swap , you are getting the best bugs I've ever seen ! I'll be copying all of them ...... David

Hairstacker
02-23-2005, 02:43 PM
Jeez, you guys are making me look bad, am I the last holdout? :oops: I have 12 tied but was going to tie a few more Golden Stoneflies this weekend, as I didn't want to include the Stoneworm, Crippled Stone, Anorexic Stone, or Sumo Stone in the batch. :lol:

Jgoding
02-23-2005, 03:16 PM
You are not alone Mike, LOL!! I have ummmm, yeah.....ummmm how many do I need to tie (read..... 6 flies done!) Hey, work has been busy busy busy busy and busier.
But they will get done soon I'm hoping.

Jeff

David Lee
02-28-2005, 08:35 PM
Hey there , Flyswappers - Jason has sent a box of Birds o' prey ..... They look wonderful and I'll bet they will KILL this spring !! Good job , Jason .

Only two boxes to go (you know who you are :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ) !!! David

David Lee
03-01-2005, 06:09 PM
Today in the mail I received Biot Stones from Hairstacker . For a guy that worried so much about how they would turn out , Mike did a GREAT job !! I think they look even better in person than in his photos ....

Only one Swapper needs to turn in some bugs - WILL HE MAKE IT ON TIME ????
Get to work , Jeff :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
David

Jgoding
03-01-2005, 10:05 PM
I'm on it!! Maybe tomorrow if you're lucky I will drop them off. Sorry for being sooooooo late but yet on time.........hahaha but it's planting time and work is busy!!!!

Jeff

Hairstacker
03-02-2005, 12:05 AM
Thank you David, I appreciate your support, as always! :D Kind of like drawing straws, wonder which swappers will get one of the better looking ones, ha. :lol:

David Lee
03-02-2005, 12:24 AM
I keep tellin' you guys .... there isn't a BAD one out of ANY that you fellas have sent - I'd be proud to fish any of 'em .

Don't worry , Jeff - I believe in you :P . David

Hairstacker
03-02-2005, 12:49 AM
I believe in you too Jeff!!! (David, you are TOO funny, ha!) I must say, this is my first swap ever, and it has been much more fun that I ever anticipated it would be, aside from all the fly tying horrors. I thank all my fellow swappers for the fun part, of course. :D Never tied a sculpin before either but am REALLY looking forward to the next swap. :D 8)

Jgoding
03-03-2005, 09:18 AM
Alright, I got em all done last night. I will be dropping them off at David's after work today and get a preview of what's to come I guess. I hope you guys like them.... Sorry I didn't have time to get any pics of my flies but maybe one day I'll figure out how to use the camera......

Jeff

Adam Grace
03-03-2005, 09:21 AM
Goog job Jgoding :!:

I can't wait to see all of the swap flies.

David Lee
03-03-2005, 08:43 PM
The last of the Swapflies have arrived . Jeff dropped in and hung around for a while this evening (as is the norm when he visits , we sat aroung laughing non-stop about things ....) . Jeff's Caddis larva are a little small for a "big-nymph" swap , but are mucho cool and VERY well done .

I can honestly say that I've never seen better bugs than the ones you guys have sent in . I believe you'll agree when you see them . I know my box will not be fished ..... I will pull it out when I'm alone and reflecting about the things I've seen and the people that I've met . The standard with which you all have tyed is amazing , every bug is a work of art . Lest you all thing that I'm over-stating things a little , rest assured I am not .

Thank you all for your fine efforts , and thank you for the great privilege of allowing me to host this .... The first Kienes B.B. FlySwap .

Regards , David Jerold Lee , March 3rd , 2005

Hairstacker
03-03-2005, 09:35 PM
David, I want to thank YOU for making it happen and hosting it for us. I think the legacy will be that you kicked off and hosted THE very first of MANY swaps to come. I just know we're all in for good times and opportunities to learn much from each other about many different patterns. Aside from all the great pattern ideas, there's also nothing quite like having a fly actually in front of you to try to tie, rather than studying some picture in a book. Again, thank you!!! :D

Adam Grace
03-03-2005, 09:44 PM
I second that, Thank You David!

I can't wait to see all of the bugs.

Hairstacker
03-04-2005, 02:29 AM
Well, thought I might as well start figuring out what to tie for the sculpin swap so I threw some materials on the table tonight, started strapping them together, and tied this one fly. Thinking maybe the head needs to be a little smaller and the herl a little shorter. . . . Never tied a sculpin so just trying to figure one out, ha. Anyway, just an experiment. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/Sachlil/MuddlerExp1.jpg

SullyTM
03-04-2005, 07:31 AM
Hairstacker...OK...now I'm bummed! I like your Sculpin tie. I've never tied a sculpin so last night I tried tying some deer hair just to see if I could get a good head on a hook and then trim it...What's your secret? Mine looked bad. I used a batch of deer hair about the thickness of a pencil...A couple of thread loops and then I fanned it out but it doesn't look thick. Should I double the thickness of the deer hair? I'd like to participate in the sculpin tie swap but not if my fly head looks like it's starving! Thanks...

Also, I too want to thank David for the First Annual Kiene's Forum Fly Swap. He has sounded like a kid in a candy store and who can blame him. It's always nice to get presents. I don't care how old you are. Thanks again "D" for all the effort. Thom

Jgoding
03-04-2005, 09:39 AM
Hey guys, I got to see all the flies yesterday too! They're damn good if you ask me as well. Ok my flies were a bit small... but the biggest nyphs I ever tied!!! I can't wait to try it out on the American either! Or even the Yuba....

I think we should all make an effort to post recipes.... maybe I will ask Eugene and Bill to start a new Topic area for recipes for fly swaps.

For the next swap, I will start a new thread, just remember, it is a crawdad or sculpin swap, your choice of one or the other. I see many people are going for sculpins, so I am going to tie a crawdad which I have never done either. It should be fun and interesting!! Lots of cool websites to check out for ideas as well, do some research if you think you need to, I know I am. virtual flybox has a cool site... onlineflytyer.....global flyfisher..... I suggest you check these sites out for pattern references etc.

Going to generate the March Swap thread now, please come and confirm you're participation.... looking for a nice 12-13 people again..

Thanks Guys!

Hairstacker
03-04-2005, 10:24 AM
Hi Thom! No, do not double the thickness of the stack of hair you're using. If I understand you correctly, you're relying on a single stack of hair to form the head. That won't do it. To tie the fly I posted, I used at least 5 stacks of hair, each one less than the thickness of a pencil.

On the fly I tied, I layed the first stack of hair with the tips pointing toward the rear of the hook, held down the portion of hair with the tips so they wouldn't flair, and cinched the stack up with a couple of thread wraps just like you did. Thus, by holding down the portion of the hair with the hair tips, the tips of the hair didn't flair but the butts flared nicely. I added a couple more thread wraps on top of the first two thread wraps to ensure this first stack was secure and then rotated the hook in the vise so I could stack another small bunch of hair on the bottom of the hook, underneath the first batch I stacked. I let this second batch flare completely (i.e., both tips and butts).

I noticed the sides of the hook were kind of bare, so I stacked small batches on each side of the hook to go along with the first two stacks of hair.

I then took a section of a drinking straw and used it to push ALL of the hair back so that I could then grab and hold the flared hair back with my finger tips. This allowed me room to do a couple of thread wraps on the hook in front of all the hair stacked thus far. So, at this point, I have one portion of hair on top stacked with the tips pointing backward, a few stacks on the bottom and sides that are flared completely, and the thread is hanging down from the hook in front of all the hair stacked thus far. I have not allowed any of the hair thus far to "spin," mind you.

I then took my finger tips and firmly pushed backward toward the bend of the hook in order to ensure the hair stacked thus far was fairly tightly packed. I then "spun" a batch of hair IN FRONT of all that stacked hair. To spin, I just put on a couple of thread wraps around a bunch of hair like you did and, as I'm cinching up the second thread wrap, I let go of the hair and start pulling the thread, which allows the bundle of hair to spin around the hook as it's flaring. And while it's starting to spin around the hook, I'm adding a third wrap and fourth wrap of thread. (Naturally, you need a strong thread to spin hair -- I use Orvis "G," which works well for me) Moved the thread to the front and did a whip finish. Voila!

If this were a surface-floating deerhair bug, I would have stacked hair on top of previously stacked or spun hair. By stacking bundles on top of bundles and ensuring bundles are tightly packed against each other along the hook shank using your fingertips, you can get a really tight head for, say, a deer hair popper. But for a sculpin fly, I've read it's preferable for it NOT to be too tightly packed, as it will be easier to make it sink. So, I'm purposely not trying to get a tightly packed head and so didn't stack any hair on top of hair. Anyway, really hope this helps and hope you don't get discouraged enough to forego the swap. I initially wasn't sure about a sculpin swap myself but I couldn't resist wanting to see a dozen sculpin patterns. Take this swap as a challenge to get this technique down. That's what I did on the last swap with those &%@* goose biots on the Golden Stoneflies I tied. Do you know, I tied THREE of those things before I figured out how to make the tail biots flare by tying them concave sides out? Doh. Hey, come to think of it, maybe when you see one of those I tied, you will be encouraged! (In other words, "If he's willing to turn in THAT, then what the hell?") :oops: :lol:

SullyTM
03-04-2005, 02:45 PM
Hairstacker...Your instructions should help. If not, I could be tying a crawdad pattern...

? How far back from the hook eye did you start the hair tie-in. I know the hook size dictates this so let's say a size 4 or 2. And, please bear with me, if for example your clump of deer hair is 2" in length do you tie in the thread using a 50/50 split of the hair stack? I'll definitely tie a few heads tonight and let you know how they came out. Practice makes perfect! Thanks for the help.

Hairstacker
03-04-2005, 03:11 PM
Thom, I started the hair tie-in about 1/3 of the hook shank back from the eye. I tied the pictured fly on a size 8 TMC 5263 (2X heavy,3X long) hook. For the size of the fly I actually tied, I probably would have been better off with a size 6 hook.

For the first stack of hair, I tied it in about 1/2" from the butt end of the hair, as I didn't care how long the hair would stream back over the rear, I was more concerned with how big the flared-butt portion was -- I didn't want the flared-butt portion to be too short to trim later into a head. For the rest of the hair bundles, I tied them all in using a "50/50 split of the hair stack," as you say. In fact, if I'm not laying in a "wing" of sorts over the back of the fly like I did in this case, I ALWAYS tie deerhair bundles in using a "50/50" split, regardless how long or short the deerhair is -- it's going to end up getting trimmed at the end anyway. I hope this helps and please feel free to ask more questions if I can be of any help. Please don't give up because, once you get it right, you'll slap yourself on the head when you realize how easy it is to stack and spin deerhair. Plus, once you get it down, you'll be able to tie up all kinds of cute bass bugs! :D

SullyTM
03-04-2005, 03:23 PM
Hairstacker...Thanks. Maybe when I get this down I'll even catch some bass! My local reservoir should be heating up for some Springtime action. I picked up dark dear hair today to go along with my light colored hair...Maybe I'll combine the 2 colors? WAIT!!! I haven't even tied a good one yet! Have a good weekend. Thom

Hairstacker
03-04-2005, 03:24 PM
Oh, and Thom, this all reminds me of something I read once in Charlie Waterman's book, "Black Bass and the Fly Rod." Charlie knew a fly shop owner who trained his tiers to make beautiful hair bugs, but this fly shop owner had instead chosen to give Charlie some shaggy rejects that beginners had sweated over. Charlie wasn't exactly enraptured by the gift until the fly shop owner explained that the rejects fished better than the "good" ones. He explained that they wouldn't sell in stores, but they'll catch more fish because the ragged edges create movement in the water. Charlie noticed he was right when he actually fished them. So, no one who's more interested in catching fish than displaying flies should have ANY problems with your flies. That's how I look at it anyhow.

SullyTM
03-04-2005, 03:34 PM
Amen! Fish don't know what's good or bad. If the they're going to strike on movement, then reject flies could be the ticket. I caught my first Chinook on a Mickey Fin and believe me it wasn't pretty, but I did get the basic form done correctly. I've been tying for 2 years and I've put more time in the past 6 months than the first 1 1/2 years. This first flyswap was a very good thing for me. My local shop even knows me by name...kind of like Norm on Cheers! I'm flying this weekend. There are a couple of steelheads that need catching. Thanks again.