Middle Klamath River

[toby]

Does anyone know if the middle river will be fishable this fall. I am curious of the water clarity.
I miss that river.

[Smitty Fish]

It might be. As soon as we get a big storm, I’m guessing it’ll be done for a while. Check with Ashland fly shop before you go.
They might know more.

I miss that river also. Very special place.
Good luck.

[Bob Smith]

Does anyone know if the middle river will be fishable this fall. I am curious of the water clarity.
I miss that river.

A week ago the visibility was 4" just above Somes Bar at Marble Mountain Ranch. If you have access to Facebook, they are posting weekly reports on river conditions.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61564413865775

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I was taken to the Klamath River in the 1960s by Joe Shirshac, US Navy and fire fighter, who started fishing it in 1954.

The fishing was amazing when I was exposed to the river in the Fall.

Campgrounds and trailer parks were full of folks from the Great Generation, who went through the Great Depression and World War II.

Joe liked to road fish from Happy Camp down to the mouth of the Triunity River.

He knew where to park and walk down into the best runs for fly fishing.

We did this early and late and at midday we visited his old friends in the trailer parks.

Joe had a Suburban and a large travel trailer so we were very comfortable.

Sometimes he would put a chicken in his crockpot in the morning.


Old Joe was the best friend of my lifetime and took care of me and my fly shop for over 30 years.


I am so happy that in 5, 10 or even 20 years the Klamath River might be as good or better than it was when I first fished it.


I could write stories about the Klamath River forever.

[itsbenlong]

I have fished the Klamath for a long time and wanted to add something some may not be thinking about. This is mainly to those who walk and wade but also those who disembark rafts and drift boats. I am usually somewhere between Seiad Valley and Orleans. Last year, before the dams came down and after the fires, the water clarity wasn't great, but 10 times better than it is now. However, the clarity was the least of our issues, it was all the ash & silt that has settled everywhere. Some sections were so bad, you couldn't even fish there because you would get stuck in it up to your knees. In many places it went all the way out to the seam and you couldn't feel any rocks below. In some spots it was very slippery, like wet clay. Anyway, I'm still going to swing by in a week or two but I can't imagine it being anything but worse than last year. Also, there is still a lot of ash in the mountains and the storms will move it down into the river along with the silt. So, not saying it is going to be terrible, but that is what I am expecting.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I am excited for the river's future and my grandsons, who are in their twenties.

Thanks for the post.





Today, people can fly fish the Rogue River into November, with October being the best up near Medford.

Please feel free to contact me if you need some info on the middle Rogue River.



Some will be going to the Trinity, Umpqua, Deschutes and the Jon Day rivers this Fall.



Be sure to check on the Regs and water conditions.

[itsbenlong]

Me too Bill, can't wait to see how it turns out. I'll most likely be retired right around the time it sorts itself out, so good times a comin'! lol

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

That is good thinking.

I will be 80 in March and live in Florida, so I don't think I will see that wonderful river again, but many others will.







I was so fortunate that I was taken to the Klamath River by old Joe Shirshac who started flyfishing

up there in 1954, after World War II. Over the past 50-plus years, in the fly fishing business, many others,

those old Klamath River fans would come in for supplies for the Fall steelhead up there and trade stories with us.

Over all those years I was fortunate to be able to fish about 80% of the length of that river.

Someday, people will go up there for a week, a month, or even two months to fish the beautiful river.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

That is good thinking.

I will be 80 in March and live in Florida, so I don't think I will see that wonderful river again, but many others will.







I was so fortunate that I was taken to the Klamath River by old Joe Shirshac who started flyfishing

up there in 1954, after World War II. Over the past 50-plus years, in the fly fishing business, many others,

those old Klamath River fans would come in for supplies for the Fall steelhead up there and trade stories with us.

Over all those years I was fortunate to be able to fish about 80% of the length of that river.

Someday, people will go up there for a week, a month, or even two months to fish the beautiful river.

[Bob Smith]

The Klamath River above Weitchpec is still running at a chocolate milk color and remains unfishable. I honestly don't see any scenario where the mainstem will be fishable for steelhead this fall/winter. When the final coffer dams were pulled - the river really mucked up again and after a few weeks, shows zero sign of clearing up. For those with Facebook access - the Marble Mountain Ranch (which is a fly fishing outfitter) has been monitoring the situation with weekly updates of the river visibility (currently 3"). They are located a bit upriver from Somes Bar where the Salmon River enters.

[John H]

I just crossed it at I-5 and it looks very brown. I gave some thought to going at the end of the month but I don’t think so.

[MThompson]

Wish I had started going up there earlier in life. That river is toast...

[JayDubP]

Are there any webcams along the Klamath River? None of the webcams I've found online show the river. Seems to me that those organizations that will track the water clarity, new riverbed, and the state of the river would have webcams.

Hope for a rainy winter and spring and a huge runoff that stays just below flood stage... but again what will happen to the mouth at Requa when all that silt arrives- will it break open to the ocean or create a giant sandbar like the Russian River?

[BumpBailey]

This river isn't toast! Not by a long shot! We've already received a report of the first salmon above the Iron Gate Dam location in over 100 years! That is freaking amazing! What, two weeks-ish after the last coffer dam came out? Through all that turbid water. I highly doubt that it will be the last.

Naysayers only need to look north to The Elwha dam removals to see that this too can be a success. Summer Steelhead which they thought they had lost, are coming back strong. Chinook are also coming back strong and they are starting to see an uptick with Coho's.

It just takes time. The rains are coming(hopefully) and with them the flush. It isn't going to happen overnight, but it is the start of the healing process. Regarding all of the silt, I imagine, in time, like The Elwha, the mouth will become a new and vibrant estuary. Creating more habitat for all sorts of flora and fauna.

We are on the right track. Dead beat dams gotta go! The Eel is next!

https://www.sfchronicle.com/california/article/first-salmon-century-spotted-waters-blocked-19816572.php

[Bob Smith]

Siskiyou County resident here and the Klamath has been my home river for the 30 plus years. There aren't any web cams that I am aware of which would give real time information. As I stated in an earlier post, Marble Mountain Ranch posts weekly water condition updates on Facebook. If you have access or know someone that does, you can search "Klamath River Fishing Report at Marble Mountain Ranch". The last report was October 3rd - 3" of visibility. They are located a few miles up river from Somes Bar where the Salmon River enters so quite a ways downriver from Iron Gate.


For those thinking it will clear up and be fishable this fall/winter, I'm not holding my breath. That said, I wholeheartedly agree with Bump that all is not lost. The Klamath River is so much different than the Elwha as the upper watershed is essentially in Great Basin desert. It will take time, maybe several years depending on what precipitation and snow pack. Water temperatures are already much cooler than they have been when the dams were in place so change is happening.

[mogaru]

The Elwha river is in Washington state were every year have plenty of snow and rain. The klamath doesn't,t carry that much water not even on wet years, therefore is not comparable and it will take a lot longer to see optimal results. California is a dry state and it it wasn't for some dams some of the rivers will dry up during the hot summers and that is the sad reality.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

This river isn't toast! Not by a long shot! We've already received a report of the first salmon above the Iron Gate Dam location in over 100 years! That is freaking amazing! What, two weeks-ish after the last coffer dam came out? Through all that turbid water. I highly doubt that it will be the last.

Naysayers only need to look north to The Elwha dam removals to see that this too can be a success. Summer Steelhead which they thought they had lost, are coming back strong. Chinook are also coming back strong and they are starting to see an uptick with Coho's.

It just takes time. The rains are coming(hopefully) and with them the flush. It isn't going to happen overnight, but it is the start of the healing process. Regarding all of the silt, I imagine, in time, like The Elwha, the mouth will become a new and vibrant estuary. Creating more habitat for all sorts of flora and fauna.

We are on the right track. Dead beat dams gotta go! The Eel is next!

https://www.sfchronicle.com/california/article/first-salmon-century-spotted-waters-blocked-19816572.php



Thanks BB, the river has been saved, just be patient.

In time this will be the biggest thing to happen to an anadromous river in modern history.

I am jealous and happy for the younger crowd who will fly fish that river for many more years.

[tcorfey]

I stopped under the I5 bridge this weekend to have lunch and although the water is quite brown I did see the backs of three salmon go up through the riffle there. That was a good sign.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

All we need is some really big winters.

Can you imagine that in 5 to 10 years the Klamath River could be like it was 100 years ago.

[BumpBailey]

The Elwha river is in Washington state were every year have plenty of snow and rain. The klamath doesn't,t carry that much water not even on wet years, therefore is not comparable and it will take a lot longer to see optimal results. California is a dry state and it it wasn't for some dams some of the rivers will dry up during the hot summers and that is the sad reality.

You are right Mo. They are two different rivers, yet they aren't. Mother Nature has proven herself capable of repairing herself when given the chance. And yes, The O.P. definitely gets more rain and snow than the Klamath region, and yes, California is a "dry state." But it has always been an arid state. Further, the state has experienced mega-droughts in the past, pre-dams, and the fish survived. The fish are capable, we just have to give them a chance.

Who knows how quickly they will come back? Only time will tell. So let's give them that before we go claiming this a failure or a success. At the very least, we know that the fish won't get cooked by the warm water being released from those cesspools any longer. No more green algae starving the river of nutrients. I do feel a little sorry for the people that had lakefront property. But, I wonder, how much does one covet those lakes come July, August and September when the Algae Bloom is in full affect? At least they have riverfront property(I'm in the market by the way) with eventually cleaner water flowing by. Seems to me a win-win. I’m sure they don’t see it that way though. The bottom line, they were deadbeat dams that needed to come out.

#FreetheEel!

[tcorfey]

One thing to remember though is the other major barrier to fish repopulation in the Klamath is the continued expansion of the use of full width gill nets by First Nations people near the mouth of the Klamath and the Trinity and not just short term for ceremonial and substance but also long term for profit. As long as those nets continue to be used for extended periods, I am afraid our returns will remain low regardless of the amount of spawning habitat we provide. I would really like to see a ban on those types of nets or a very limited season maybe one week max In order to help the stocks rebuild.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Someone marries a woman who is one-fourth Native American, then buys a huge jet boat, a bunch of large synthetic gill nets, and

then the river is being abused again. This has been going on for decades now. They sell the fish commercially too.

This needs to be dealt with.


We don't need any hatcheries on the Klamath River. Wild fish survive better.


The Klamath river should be barbless, single-hook as well. The CA Fish & Wildlife told us that sport fishing does not impact fisheries

much and fly fishing even less, but commercial fishing and poaching are devastating.

[Bob Smith]

The issue of the Klamath River annual tribal allocation of 50% of whatever is determined to be harvest-able surplus is codified by treaty and law and will never change.

[hwchubb]

They did substantially cut back the netting last year voluntarily. I would hope, as the traditional “stewards of the resource”, and major stakeholders in the dam removal project, the tribes would be forward thinking on that. Of course, hope in one hand…

[tcorfey]

Yes, last year saw a much better return when the tribes did that. Wish they would continue to see the need in order to enhance/restore the fishery.

[BumpBailey]

Yes, last year saw a much better return when the tribes did that. Wish they would continue to see the need in order to enhance/restore the fishery.

Hopefully, after all the time and effort they have spent getting these dams out, they will see the big picture and start practicing more sustainable ways of getting their catch! Which might also help prop up the tourism industry and reap more benefits for all the people up there.

Maybe
I might be a little too optimistic...

[JayDubP]

Hopefully, after all the time and effort they have spent getting these dams out, they will see the big picture and start practicing more sustainable ways of getting their catch! Which might also help prop up the tourism industry and reap more benefits for all the people up there.

Maybe
I might be a little too optimistic...

A Serious Thought:
Maybe the Feds and CA State could give the tribes free land and money to grow marijuana --- in exchange for the tribes agreeing to outlaw gill netting and commercial sale of salmon & steelhead. That would increase employment on the reservations and eliminate the need to commercially sell fish.

[Darian]

"Maybe the Feds and CA State could give the tribes free land and money to grow marijuana"

:D What is it that makes you think that native Americans aren't already cultivating Marijuana and on free land (think reservations)??? Too much competition from illegal and legal grows.

Maybe a more viable proposal would be (if they haven't already done it) to obtain land for a Casino in one of the cities up there. :cool:

[tcorfey]

The Yurok's have a Casino at the mouth of the Klamath (more or less) it is just a bunch of slot machines located within the Holiday Inn Express so not much employment. I did not see any gaming tables, but the food in the bar/resturant was quite good.

[Bob Smith]

We really can't blame the tribes for the decline of salmon when a significant amount of Klamath water is diverted from the Upper Basin, upper tributaries and Trinity River for other uses.

Tribal allocation on the Klamath is divided between the Hupa (or Hoopa) and Yurok. The Karuk are allowed to remove salmon for ceremonial purposes by dip netting at Ishi Pishi Falls. For the Yurok (whom are allotted 80% of the tribal allocation), fishing is a cultural issue and not about money. In high abundance years, they will fish commercially so money is a part of it. The Yurok in particular have a large fisheries staff and those folks are very active in restoration enhancement projects on their lands. All of the Klamath tribes will continue to participate in post dam removal restoration, particularly in the footprints of the old reservoirs.

I'm not a fan of gill netting either but that's not going end...

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

All they have to do is control the netting, like they do in Alaska.

Unchecked netting can keep the river fisheries down.

Hopefully, the Native Americans can utilize the mighty river for a tourist economy to support themselves, as well.




What wiped out all of our West Coast anadromous fishers was dams, AG, logging, developments, vineyards, pot farms, and hatcheries.


Sport fishing has little effect on a fishery compared to the above.


Money, greed, and corruption are the enemies today.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Here is a grammar school educational video showing the size of rocks in a wild, undammed, free-flowing river.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MB_s5ewgVg


We hope these things are being taught to our youth today.

[JayDubP]

Well said, Bill. This is an issue world-wide, in fact Norway cancelled commercial fishing this year and Canada has been restricting salmon & steelhead fishing for at least the past 10 years. And unanswered is the impact that basically uncontrolled harvesting by commercial factory fishing boats just outside international boundaries.

One of the problems in solving the problem is that no one group will take responsibility, especially the ocean commercial fishing industry.

Removal of the dams will make what happens in the river more transparent and should make it easier to determine what the impact of ocean fishing is.

A huge side effect of the Klamath dam removals will be using the latest technology to measure salmon & steelhead at various points along their journey from entering the river to spawning... and then on their way down river to the ocean.

From what I have read, this will be the most comprehensive program ever used and by tracking at various locations on the river, they should see not only the impact of removing the dams but they should be able to determine where fish loss occurs... and how many salmon & steelhead are really harvested in the ocean and even how many are taken by tribal netting.


Link to article on the program:

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/feature-story/teams-and-technology-trace-klamath-river-recovery-tracking-new-salmon-returns




All they have to do is control the netting, like they do in Alaska.

Unchecked netting can keep the river fisheries down.

Hopefully, the Native Americans can utilize the mighty river for a tourist economy to support themselves, as well.




What wiped out all of our West Coast anadromous fishers was dams, AG, logging, developments, vineyards, pot farms, and hatcheries.


Sport fishing has little effect on a fishery compared to the above.


Money, greed, and corruption are the enemies today.

[Dugger]

Thanks for the science article JayDubP. This forum is rife with unsupported opinion ... just read this thread!

Doug

[Bob Smith]

I receive weekly video weir count updates from CA DFW and got this notice yesterday afternoon. Jenny Creek is one of the larger cold water tributaries that opened up with Klamath dam removal. This is excellent news!

Hello all,

I wanted to reach out and share a non-weir yet salmon related update from Jenny Creek. Today a crew surveyed Jenny Creek and observed two live Chinook Salmon, one redd and one spawned out female Chinook Salmon carcass in the lower portion of Jenny Creek (within the reservoir footprint). Normal video updates will resume Friday.

Thanks,

Domenic Giudice

Klamath River Project

California Department of Fish and Wildlife

1625 South Main Street

Yreka, CA 96097

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

OMG.....how exciting.

I guess some salmon and Steelhead spawn up the tributaries.

Looks like they are keeping track of the Klamath River and its tributaries.

Thanks Bob and Domenic.

[Fishtopher]

Some even more amazing news I received today.

ODFW observed a Chinook salmon at the mouth of Spencer Creek above JC Boyle dam site in Oregon yesterday. That is over 250 miles from the mouth and at an elevation of about 4100’. Dam removal concluded on September 30, and there are now salmon all the way in Oregon less than 3 weeks later.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

All they need to do is leave that river alone and it will heal itself.


Please, no hatcheries. They do not work, long term.


These amazing anadromous fish will strengthen every year because they were born and raised in these creeks, tributaries, and rivers.


Give them at least 5 years of no netting to get the populations up to good numbers.


Have no logging and development on the Klamath River. Greed and corruption are the only things to stop this river now.



This amazing project should be a great example for all countries with rivers with anadromous fisheries.

[BumpBailey]

Some even more amazing news I received today.

ODFW observed a Chinook salmon at the mouth of Spencer Creek above JC Boyle dam site in Oregon yesterday. That is over 250 miles from the mouth and at an elevation of about 4100’. Dam removal concluded on September 30, and there are now salmon all the way in Oregon less than 3 weeks later.

Fishtopher beat me to the punch! Article below. Just like "Bob" says Baby Steps! We're doing the work!

https://ktvz.com/news/wildlife/2024/10/17/first-salmon-since-1912-spotted-in-oregons-klamath-basin-months-after-dam-removal/

[Bob Smith]

Chinook are really starting to push past the old Iron Gate dam site and are spreading out in the upper main stem and tributaries that are now accessible. Here's a screen shot from a Facebook post by Shane Anderson - who's working on a documentary about the dam removal project.

20191

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

OMG............the fish will come back way sooner than I imagined.


Than is Bob....that is wonderful news.