Guided trips getting too $$$?

[Bob Loblaw]

I'm planning a trip to Idaho with my daughter before she goes back to school in a couple of weeks; a few days in Ketchum and a few more in Victor. We want to check a few bucket list rivers. Without naming names, the prices are INSANE. One shop is quoting $425 for four hours of guiding on Silver Creek, so no boat needed, plus $150 per person if we want to use their rods, plus $20 per person for lunch! The Henry's Fork is $725 for a day drift and that doesn't include flies! its bring your own or pay for them. When you add taxes and gratuity and Idaho licenses, its getting close to $1,000 for a day of fishing!

I used to treat myself to about 4 guided trips a year when the going rate was $500. I don't think I'll ever hire a guide again at these prices. its hard to enjoy the day when your teeth are grinding so much. I suppose if there are enough people willing to pay ever higher prices the guide services will charge what the market will bear.

[Sonoman]

Hi Bob, I hear you. Many guides certainly work hard and, historically, just scraped by financially. I had others in AK and CO that were expensive, lazy, and, frankly, not very good guides. Guides are usually the best way to learn new water, but I always worry about paying top dollar for mediocre guides. I agree with you, $800-1000/day busts my budget and limits how many I can afford.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I agree that the price of guided fly fishing is going crazy.

It is not the guide's problem though.

If you check into it some guides have married women who have "real jobs" with good incomes, retirements and benefits.

Some guides have outboard skiffs that are $50,000 to $100,000 in the Delta!

Having a guide's license, captain's license, being bonded, and being insured, having a boat, most guides have big overheads.

Sadly, lots of fisheries are not very good anymore so without guides many fly fishers would not be successful.


With costs going up for everything and fisheries collapsing, I can see fly fishing becoming a very rare hobby.

[Bob Loblaw]

I've been very lucky with guides in the past. I've only once had a bad experience with a lazy guide, which ironically was in Idaho, and every other time they've busted their tails and earned every penny. I'm not against a guide making a decent living, or a very good one for that matter, the price is just a sign of the times. There's a lot of new money coming into fly fishing and there are a limited number of guide licenses on most waters, so its only natural they can charge more. I'm lucky I have a guide I use in CA, who is not only a great guide, but he grandfathers in his old clients at pre covid prices!

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

60-plus years ago most trout fly fishers had about $100 invested in equipment.

Most just drove up into the mountains and wet-waded trout streams that had lots of fish.

They might have a vest, old cane or fiberglass fly rod, simple fly reel, floating fly line, leaders and some snelled flies in a wallet.



You can only imagine what it cost per day for a family of 4 to go to Disney Land, plus food.

Take a family of 4 to a professional baseball, football or basketball game, plus food.



It is getting too expensive to be alive today.

[steveg137]

Agree
Wife got me half day for Father’s Day and I rounded it up to full day
I think in Ketchum theres lots of corporate stuff too.

[yubaman]

ah, the law of supply and demand. The Henry's Fork is on the extreme side of guide rates. For that rate, having to bring your own flies or buy them is mind blowing . . . and charging you more for lunch, man that is C.S., but that is the Henry's Fork. Most outfits are in the $600 - $650 range, including flies and lunch.

Here is one for you though, when we were just in Wyoming, we floated twice on the Green. Standard rates. However, if you wanted to float the Wind River, on the reservation . . . it was $900 . . . and you also had to purchase an additional license to fish on the reservation!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!

[fivefingers]

Guides around here have settled around $600 a day, and honestly, I think it's pretty unsustainable if you plan on making it a career. It's probably going to 650 or 700 within a year or two. It's just going to have to. The price of gasoline alone is ridiculous.

Is going out with a guide expensive? Hell yeah it is, which is why you should vet out the good ones who focus on teaching rather than putting you on fish. And it goes both ways. You should go out hoping to learn the river, how to successfully fish it, its history, ways to support its sustainability; and maybe, if you're lucky, you might touch some fish.

I think it's us, as fly fisherman, to set the expectations of people coming into the hobby. It's not about numbers. It's about preserving the fishery, now. And I stress this to all guides - you need to impress that onto your clients.

Otherwise we all lose.

[Mr T]

Guides around here have settled around $600 a day, and honestly, I think it's pretty unsustainable if you plan on making it a career. It's probably going to 650 or 700 within a year or two. It's just going to have to. The price of gasoline alone is ridiculous.

Is going out with a guide expensive? Hell yeah it is, which is why you should vet out the good ones who focus on teaching rather than putting you on fish. And it goes both ways. You should go out hoping to learn the river, how to successfully fish it, its history, ways to support its sustainability; and maybe, if you're lucky, you might touch some fish.

I think it's us, as fly fisherman, to set the expectations of people coming into the hobby. It's not about numbers. It's about preserving the fishery, now. And I stress this to all guides - you need to impress that onto your clients.

Otherwise we all lose.




Well said-


and lets face it- EVERYTHING has gotten overpriced, not just guides...

[PV_Premier]

In Victor, I would personally recommend Teton Valley Lodge or, as a backup, Worldcast. They have all-inclusive pricing and will not nickel and dime you like some of the outfitters in Island Park or the other "big name" shop in the Valley. Yes, prices are high. TVL will run you about $875-900 for a day including the tip. It is what it is out here, unfortunately. As stated up thread, virtually everything is now just too expensive since the Fed fell so far behind the curve on inflation and didn't catch it before the wage/price spiral kicked in.

If you are a rower, you can also rent a drift boat from the place in Ashton and pay Yellow Sally to run shuttle for you. The total cost would be about 40% of a guided trip, but obviously this would not allow you to fish Bear Gulch to Warm River if that was one of your goals.

[Dave E.]

Without naming names, the prices are INSANE. One shop is quoting $425 for four hours of guiding on Silver Creek, so no boat needed.

I came across a half day walk and wade trip on the American priced @ $450.00.

Somethings out of whack.

[Bkane]

In free market capitalism, prices regulate themselves.

[Ralph]

In free market capitalism, prices regulate themselves.

The cure to high prices is high prices. In this market though, I don't think we've hit the ceiling.

[lake flyer]

We are headed to MT in September and at over $800 including tip means we are going one day with a guide and the other 20 some days on our own. I think guides hit the ceiling long ago and high guide prices are the reason so many flyfishers have bought their own boats to fish out of. Of course the result is crowding at the rivers and guides and everyone else complaining about the proliferation of private boats.

[Woodman]

Depends on where you go to some degree and what the market will bear at the location. I have two days booked (with two different guides) in August on a well known river in Oregon. Both guides come highly recommended. They are $500 and $475 daily rate. Under $600 with a decent tip. Still a chunk of money, but not $800.

[aaron]

In Victor, I would personally recommend Teton Valley Lodge or, as a backup, Worldcast. They have all-inclusive pricing and will not nickel and dime you like some of the outfitters in Island Park or the other "big name" shop in the Valley. Yes, prices are high. TVL will run you about $875-900 for a day including the tip. It is what it is out here, unfortunately. As stated up thread, virtually everything is now just too expensive since the Fed fell so far behind the curve on inflation and didn't catch it before the wage/price spiral kicked in.

If you are a rower, you can also rent a drift boat from the place in Ashton and pay Yellow Sally to run shuttle for you. The total cost would be about 40% of a guided trip, but obviously this would not allow you to fish Bear Gulch to Warm River if that was one of your goals.

Even at those prices WorldCast had a 300 person wait list for a trip 2 summers ago. It's mellowed a bit but the demand is still sky high. Also, guiding is much more tightly regulated in ID/MT/WY than CA. Guides are working under outfitters who work under super strict permits regulating boats per day on stretches etc. Permits are crazy expensive, the last South Fork permit to change hands was around 1.8 million dollars. At 6 boats a day and operating expenses, guides cuts etc it takes a long time to even pay off the permit, let alone turn a profit.

$425 for a half day on Silver Creek is money well spent IMO.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Half-day trips in the fresh water and salt water can be a good idea.

When I was 20, 1965, learning to be a fly fisher there were not very many guides in America for anything.

I only went with guides, for free, because I had a fly shop.

I have recommended going with top guides, especially for the fast learning cure, so it has a double value.


Most of us do not have the economics to go with a guide today for $500 to $1,000/day.

Partnering up with someone can be helpful.





The other way to learn and become a better angler is to join a fly fishing club, become active and go on their outings.


Example: Tuesday evening, August 8, at 6:00 pm at the old Backcountry Fly Fishing Club in Melbourne, Florida, a top local fly fisher

is putting on a special presentation on fly fishing at the beach for Snook and other species. This is good during the summer when the

wind is very low and the ocean can be like a lake. Mid-day with no clouds they are sight casting to gamefish that are very close to the

shore. Steve Potter and I will be attending. I will give a good report on this presentation.

[Bob Loblaw]

Even at those prices WorldCast had a 300 person wait list for a trip 2 summers ago. It's mellowed a bit but the demand is still sky high. Also, guiding is much more tightly regulated in ID/MT/WY than CA. Guides are working under outfitters who work under super strict permits regulating boats per day on stretches etc. Permits are crazy expensive, the last South Fork permit to change hands was around 1.8 million dollars. At 6 boats a day and operating expenses, guides cuts etc it takes a long time to even pay off the permit, let alone turn a profit.

$425 for a half day on Silver Creek is money well spent IMO.

We fished Silver Creek this morning and if there's a more perfect trout stream on planet earth I haven't seen it. We fished the Nature Conservancy for 3 hours and had 3 small fish each. I had a momma Moose and calf crash through the brush just below me and jump in the creek. After 3 days of fishing in Grizzly country they scared the crap out of me! Spotted some big cruising browns but couldn't get one to rise. I have never seen a mayfly hatch like the ones coming off this creek. Clouds of them!

[Bob Loblaw]

Just got home last night after a 14 hour drive from Ketchum...would have been 11 but we hit Truckee at 4pm as everyone was leaving and it was stop and go all the way down the hill! My daughter and I fished some amazing waters. We booked a guide out of Teton Valley Lodge and drifted the lower section of the Henry's Fork, from just below Harrimans to Upper Mesa Falls. Really three rivers in one, first the classic slow spring creek Henry's Fork with big spooky fish, then a faster freestone section where the fish were a bit more ready to eat a fly, then the last section was a class 2 white water ride where we were rapid firing and slapping flies behind every rock as we flew downstream. We had some very nice fish, a couple at 22 inches. I hooked one while we were at anchor as the guide was swapping out my daughters bugs and it took off downstream like a rocket into some pretty fast water, the reel was screaming for mercy! then it did a 180 and charged straight back at the boat, I never stripped line so fast in my life. Against the odds we got it in the raft. A fat 18 inch rainbow. We fished hoppers all day which was a blast! The next evening I fished the evening hatch on the Teton River outside Driggs and it was pretty good! 4 nice fish in just an hour all eating dries. After 4 days in the Teton Valley we left for Ketchum. You can read all the books and watch all the videos, but nothing really prepares you for how beautiful Silver Creek really is. We stopped in the store in Picabo picked up some bugs and swag, and fished the morning hatch. By about 9 am it was difficult to see the mayfly hatch was so thick. I have never seen anything like it on any river anywhere! it was unreal. Getting low holed by a Moose family was a first! We caught a bunch of little 6 inch fish but nothing of any size. We went back the next day, same time, and the hatch was even thicker but an hour later. The weather was a little cooler and cloudier. This time the hatch came off about 11am and was just as thick only after about 15 minutes it suddenly stopped and they all dropped to the surface at once. The whole creek was blanketed with spinners and the fish went nuts! boils everywhere but it was impossible to get them to eat an artificial with so many naturals on the water. We found out later that day that there had been a vegetation die off in that section over the winter and all the big fish had moved downstream to the float tube section and beyond. Didn't care much, bucket list rivers checked! The highlight of the trip was on the drive home. My wife complained the whole time that she hadn't seen a Moose. She paddleboarded the Snake River in the Park, she hiked to Jenny Lake, she walked up and down Silver Creek while we were fishing and missed the Moose we saw....then in the middle of the Nevada desert about 50 miles west of Elko we saw what we thought was a wild mule standing at the side of I-80 but as we slowed down and got closer we realized it was a Moose! it trotted alongside the car for about 30 yards as we were fumbling for a camera and then stopped and turned back before we could get a shot. But she saw her Moose up close and that capped the trip. (there are 12,500 moose in Idaho, 50-100 in Nevada!)

[cutthroat22]

Thanks for the report. Congrats on a great trip and some good fishing too!

[aaron]

Riverside to Mesa is still very upper Henry's Fork. Funny about not seeing a Moose until Elko, climate change has sent a ton of Idaho moose packing into Northern Nevada.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Years ago only the old wealthy doctors, dentists, attorneys, contractors, big farmers and developers went with fly fishing guides.

They were the same self-made men of the Great Generation who also traveled around the World to fly fishing lodges


Men today are not what they used to be, on average, so many can not tell their young wives they are going with friends for a week to a

fly fishing Lodge and spending $5,000 to $10,000 dollars. Oh, no..................it's a family vacation or divorce.













Optional read: Fly Fishing Travel is not the same today:


"Back in the day" we had very powerful men who paid for 12 people, the entire lodge, to go fly fishing and invite family, golf friends,

customers and their employees. These great men, who grew up during the Great Depression and were involved in World War II, were

real strong independent men. Us old Baby Boomers were lucky to have them for fathers, uncles and old friends. They are all gone now

but had incredible lives. When they came home from World War II they were heroes to most of the World. The World pulled together to

fight Germany and Japan so after the War the World was like a big family. Today our kids know almost nothing about how loved

America was after World War II. We helped rebuild the World after the Big War, even Germany and Japan.

[PV_Premier]

Glad you had a good trip with TVL. Who was your guide?

That section is one of my favorites on the HF for just the reason you mention, the diversity of the water. For an adventure, on your next float, request Mesa to Warm River.

[Bob Loblaw]

We had a young kid still in college, Caleb...didn't get a last name. It was his first season guiding, but no complaints he put us on a lot of nice fish....though my daughter did learn a lot of new words. Mesa to Warm River next time! though I do want to fish Island Park and Harrimans at some point, just to see what all the fuss is about.

[rhilliard]

Funny about not seeing a Moose until Elko, climate change has sent a ton of Idaho moose packing into Northern Nevada.

Aaron: Yea, I hear ya on that climate change issue, we're not seeing near the regular number of Sasquatch here in NORTH ID. Don't really miss them tho they're a low-holin' crowd anyway.

[ricards]

Depends on where you go to some degree and what the market will bear at the location. I have two days booked (with two different guides) in August on a well known river in Oregon. Both guides come highly recommended. They are $500 and $475 daily rate. Under $600 with a decent tip. Still a chunk of money, but not $800.

Might that river be the Williamson? My brother and I drifted it with Chuck Storey on Saturday. His full-day rate is $475 and worth every penny of it. We started in the early afternoon (because of a river clean-up that morning) and later that afternoon, we got into some of the big Redbands that the river is famous for. My brother and I each brought to net four fish in the eighteen-inch plus range and a number of fat, healthy fish in the fourteen to seventeen-inch range. The last fish of the day was a brute in the thirty-inch range that my brother caught.

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