Boat Recommendations for Lower A, Yuba and Lower Sac?

[Troutsource]

Primarily myself and 1-2 other people. Fly fishing mainly for trout & steelhead -- but maybe shad, striper & salmon. I'd anticipate a minimum of 2-3 uses per year.

Possibly try the Delta, but wouldn't base my decision on it.

High-side drift boat? Low-side? Skiff? Motor or not? 17' or 18'? Best materials seem to be polymer (expensive), then fiberglass, then aluminum (I don't think I could handle the noise produced by aluminum).

A good used boat seems like a better value than a new one.

I used to have a one-man pontoon boat but found it to be a PITA.

Thanks.

[MThompson]

2 to 3 uses per year? Go with someone in their boat or hire a guide. My guess would would be a drifter with a small outboard to cover the stuff you're looking to do.

[WLREDBAND]

2 to 3 uses per year? Go with someone in their boat or hire a guide. My guess would would be a drifter with a small outboard to cover the stuff you're looking to do.

I second what MT said. If you're only going to use it a couple times per year, far cheaper to hire a guide. I have both a drift boat and a small jet sled, and I use the jet sled far more often than the drift boat. But I use my stuff about 100 days a year! To give you an example, a used drift boat with a kicker will set you back about $5K, and a small jet sled about $10K. That money will buy a lot of guide trips! IMNSHO, if you ain't gonna use it more than 10 times a year, don't bother buying a boat.

[Troutsource]

I hear both of you guys. It's just that I'd rather not fish with a guide. I may catch more fish but I don't enjoy the experience as much. And the 2-3 times/year is just realistic based on my situation, the other places I like to fish, and how often most non-guide married guys use them. I know some of you are the exception (and I envy you). I fish close to 50 days/year but do a lot of bank wading. At 2-3 times/year, I'd obviously be looking for a used boat. Most good brands seem to hold their value well, so there'd be a cash out at the end unless I destroy it.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

You need 3 boats:

An outboard skiff for the Delta for Stripers and LMB.

A drift boat for drifting rivers with indicators for trout and steelhead

A jet boat for fishing the rivers for Stripers, Shad and Smallmouth.


About $100,000.00 should do it?



I recommend going with top guides during prime time so you can learn how to fish a particular/new to you fishery.


I would go to Kiene's Fly Shop in Sacramento on the weekend and have this discussion with Captain Andy Guibord.

Andy knows a lot about all the different kinds of boats they use in Nor Cal.



Most of the time boats, RVs, jet skis, snowmobiles, ATVs, and treadmills are a waste of money for most.

[lee s.]

I LOVE the addition of treadmills Bill!
....lee s.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Yes Lee.....you have to have a sense of humor.

[Mr T]

Hmmm I dunno Bill- my waders dry very well indeed on the treadmill….

[TaylerW]

If you’re going to get a drift boat, do not get a low side. Really easy to swamp in surprisingly common spots. I like glass boats. Quiet, warm, and easy to handle.

If I could buy a new drift boat today I would look at an Adipose "Runoff".

[Charlie Gonzales]

In the past 20 years I have had 7 boats.

2 Hyde drift boats - 1 high side, 1 low side, guided out of both of them on the Lower Sac, Yuba, Feather and American. Never even came close to swamping the low side and was involved in several rescues of drunk swimmers who were close to drowning. Loved both of those boats.

3ea 16' Jon boats with 20hp outboards, one was set up with oars. loved all 3 of them.

2ea 10'-12' prams. had fun in both.

Just sold a 17' deep V Tracker that I used on the Delta. Enjoyed it but it was too much work on windy days.

As Bill mentioned, ideally 3 boats would be perfect for the Valley rivers, lakes and Delta.

I'm still in search of the perfect boat. Especially one that I could afford.

[Troutsource]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Bill, can you spot me $100K?

Any thoughts on polymer boats like those made by Boulder Boat Works: https://www.boulderboatworks.com (https://www.boulderboatworks.com/)/ ?

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

An old friend of mine who guides with a BBW drift boat says if you row one, you will buy one.

The Ferrari of drift boats........

[Troutsource]

and probably with Ferrari prices...

I just submitted a price request and will post their response here.

The cheapest used one here is $15,000, and it's only 15' 11":

https://www.boulderboatworks.com/pre-owned-drift-boats/

[MThompson]

Gotta pay to play...

[tcorfey]

"I'd anticipate a minimum of 2-3 uses per year."

Now that would be a concern to me. Not so much if you are going to a lake or the Delta but a river is a different story. Not knowing your experience with running rivers or your rowing experience going on to a river once or twice a year you do not know the best lines to take, where the rocks or sweepers are etc...

In which case maybe get a small outboard boat for the Delta, then wade or get a guide for the one or two times a year you want to run a river. Even the Trinity or Klamath or Lower Sac which is pretty tame in most places has obstacles that can present a dangerous situation if you do not have the necessary experience.

I personally have 3 different pontoon boats, three kayaks, a canoe, a 10' pram, a Boston Whaler and a rowing shell. Yet I still hire a guide to fish some rivers I do not know well, if you find the right guide it can be lots of fun and very educational. I went on 5 guided trips last year and have been on two this year with 4 more scheduled through September. But the guides I go with I have already established a repore with and look forward to each trip I go on with them. Worth looking in to. As the cost of a boat is not just the purchase price there is also maintenance, repairs, theft prevention, upgrades, regular cleanings, and trailering to contend with.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Most people are better off saving their money and going with the best top guides at prime time.

________________________________

3 of my best customers bought an outboard skiff so they could go to the Delta and lakes.

They had always gone on group trips through our shop and hired guides locally.

They discovered that none of them wanted to keep the boat at their home and spend hours cleaning it after every trip.

They realized none of them wanted to run the boat so the others could fish.

Finally, they sold it and were much happier.

________________________________

I don't need a boat because in Florida and in California I have lots of friends and guides with boats.


That said, I just had a custom-built 15' super skiff put together for me.

When we take my super shallow water boat out I have to get it all ready.

I have to pull it 2 miles to the free ramp at the Sebastian river

Then I like to run the boat, kind of like a guide (ha, ha), so my friends can fish off the front deck.

Then after I get home I have to clean the boat, and run the motor to get the saltwater out of it.

I have to charge the batteries and clean all my tackle too.

_________________________________


When you go out with top guides you will find they are usually enjoyable people to be with.

All you need are good Polarized glasses, a good fishing hat and a credit card ( or cash).

Most anglers are better off using the tackle that the guides supply because it is usually better fitted for the day's fishing than yours.

When you go with a guide it is best to let him make the decisions or why hire him?

________________________________________

Here in Sebastian, Florida, $100,000 24' skiffs are in many driveways along with smaller skiffs and kayaks too.

We have the most famous natural river on the East Coast of Florida, the Sebastian river, where I fish 90% of the time.

We have one of only 5 openings to the ocean in 156 miles of Intracoastal lagoon, the Indian River Lagoon system.


The Florida fisheries department did a big in-depth study of the Snook at the famous Sebastian Inlet.

365 days a year they believe there are at least 65,000 Snook within a mile radius of the inlet.

Under water video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFQ3yquqz2M


Sebastian, Florida is one of the best places in America to live if you like to fish.......

[Troutsource]

Tcorfey, I'm only planning to run the Lower American, Lower Yuba and Lower Sac with it. Those rivers are pretty safe at normal flows, and the drive isn't rough.

Bill/Tcorfey, given that I'm only planning freshwater use (skip the Delta), what kind of cleaning and maintenance is really needed?

I know the two happiest days of boat ownership are the day you buy and the day you sell it. I know most people use them far less than they plan to. This is why I'm trying to be realistic. How many married guys with kids (who are not guides) actually use their own boat more than that?

I've always wanted a cabin, and my wife (a financial advisor) has vetoed it because "it's cheaper to rent." The same could be said for a boat, and she may veto this idea as well. But it's a fraction of the price. And assuming I don't destroy it, it should have a good liquidation value when I sell it.

I live just outside of Sac, 12 minutes from Nimbus, so with my second (and final) child going to college in 1.5 years, I'll have plenty of opportunities to use it. And in Sac, one person just needs to Uber back up to the launch site to pick up the vehicle. Even if I'm fishing by myself, I can just anchor or beach the boat to fish. In this case obviously Uber doesn't work, so I'd need my wife's help.

Thanks.

[tcorfey]

Maintenance on a boat and trailer used in freshwater is less than one used in saltwater but you still need to wash it inside and out (before and after each use even if that is just to get the spiders out), assuming you keep it covered when not in use and if fiberglass or painted you need to wax it at least once or more per year to make it easier to wash and prevent oxidation from UV light of the sun. Engine maintenance change the oil yearly both Crankcase and gear case, change spark plugs occasionally replace the impeller (this feeds cold water to the engine) every other year (depending on usage), Because you use it occasionally you will need to treat your fuel tank with Stabil or something similar, change fuel lines every couple of years due to uv degradation, change fuel filter when you replace your impeller, Keep your battery charged for starting the engine and replace the battery every two to three years. Check your anchor and docking lines replace as needed. Keep your safety items up to date (flare replacements etc...), check your running lights and replace bulbs as needed, trailer needs bearing maintenance, light maintenance and winch maintenance yearly, tires need replaced every three to four years (tread will still be fine but sidewalls will crack and dry out) helpful if you jack the boat up on jack stands to avoid tire flat spots if using it only a couple times per year. Unforeseen expenses/repairs due to age, dock rash or rock encounters. DMV fees and taxes paid. That should about cover it. Depending on the boat you may also have to periodically replace control, steering and throttle cables a tiller model can avoid that expense. To keep my costs lower I have hydraulic steering, a spin on fuel filter on my Boston Whaler and oil bath hubs on my trailer. With a boat that has limited use rubber items will still dry out and fail especially things like the engine impeller.

[WLREDBAND]

<<<Tcorfey, I'm only planning to run the Lower American, Lower Yuba and Lower Sac with it. Those rivers are pretty safe at normal flows, and the drive isn't rough.>>
I live near and fish the LSAC on a very frequent basis, and I've rescued two persons out of the river who both were on the verge of drowning over the past year. Pretty common to do that because people who have never rowed a drift boat in fast moving water (like the LSAC) think they know how to row because they've been doing it on lakes for years. Not trying to scare you, but moving water is a completely different beast.

[MThompson]

Well, post some pictures when you get it. That is if your wife let's you.

[Troutsource]

"fast moving water (like the LSAC)"

Yes, I agree with this. It's a powerful river, and I should probably take it off the list for now.

My wife may never agree. But a man can dream.

[MThompson]

I'm pulling for you Sir. And I hope you get one. I'm lucky with the wife unit. She prefers that I'm gone fishing. Everybody needs their Me time.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

All these interesting discussions gets me thinking about the old retirement thing.


I am 77 and spent my entire adult life around outdoorsy men and fishing.

My comment is, based on over 50 years of watching hundreds go through life, retire as young as fiscally possible.

We are so programmed to work hard and long that retiring earlier than the average, 63?, scares many.

I had two customers that told me they retire in their late 40s.

We retired around 70 but we never felt like we were working at our fly shop.

According to the top 10 life insurance companies, the longer you work, the shorter you will live.

This is you and that is how the insurance companies make "trillions" of dollars using these factual statistics.


Call, text or email me about your situation in regard to retiring.

[Troutsource]

At what age does a drift boat become too taxing on the back? I'm not a spring chicken anymore. A small motor would be great for some applications (like running a stretch multiple times), but obviously most of the manuevering will be with the oars. My lower back is my achilles heal, so maybe I'm kidding myself to even be thinking of a drift boat at this age.

Maybe this is how I can justify a lighter boat from BBB to lessen the strain(?).

[WLREDBAND]

Age is a relative thing and it all depends on your physical shape, and more importantly, how many people you know who can actually row! I'm 66 and I don't row the LSAC any longer. Anything fast gets a pass from me. I don't want to be entering a tricky section where I have to hit a couple of hard pulls on the oars and have my back blow out and miss them. But that's largely because I have a lot of younger fishing buddies who can row, who I used to row around before I got old, and now it's their turn.
Seriously, if you're only going to use the boat a couple times a year, don't buy one. Go with a guide instead. But one positive aspect of a boat that should definitely be considered is: it's far more easy to fish effectively from a boat, and your catch rate will improve dramatically.

[Rossflyguy]

I’ve went from a float tube, to an aluminum 13’ Gregor, to a brand new Clackacraft, to a 18’6” HewesCraft, and now to a Native Titan 12 kayak, and probably gonna go back to a small aluminum boat in a few years. The small aluminum boats and kayaks are extremely versatile. The drift boat was great and all BUT you’ll need to know people who can row. If you wanna go by yourself you’ll have to figure out a shuttle that you TRUST. I was going to buy a motorcycle but unfortunately there’s a lot of criminals in California. I don’t trust a motorcycle to last long by itself. I rowed more than I fished. It’s useful if you’re on a river that has private property surrounding it (Russian). If it’s for the lower yuba spend your money elsewhere. Buy a membership on the private property above the bridge. I downsized because I can get a kayak in a lot of good stillwater gems without having to pay monthly payments, gas for towing, launch fees, and tow my camper. I’ve caught the same amount and size fish on shore as in a boat.

[Troutsource]

OK, after reflection based on feedback I'm not getting a drift boat. I think I'm a little too old, and I want something more suited for 1-person floats and that doesn't require the hassle of a trailer or (much) maintenance.

So I'm back to a 1-man pontoon.

A friend bought one of these for east coast rivers like the upper Delaware and Salmon River and loves it (and they seem to get good reviews): http://www.catchercraft.com/1saltsteelheadpontoon Not cheap but I can get two for the price of one cheap used drift boat.

This model has a solid casting platform, but you can only navigate with the oars (vs. flippers on my old one). It's a tradeoff. Anyone have any experience with both types? It seems like:
- Flippers (like most models on the market): always navigable, including while fighting fish (flippers or oars), but casting from low to the water, and rowing is a bit tedious
- No Flippers, but casting platform (model I'm considering): not navigable while fighting a fish (could be risky above rapids, but can drop anchor in some cases; rowing seems easier

My original was only 7', with no casting platform, and this is 10' with a casting platform.

Thanks in advance.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Captain Andy Guibord likes a 16-17 foot Jon boat that is 60" wide at the bottom rear with a tiller jet outboard.


He likes a set of drift boat oars and a bow-mounted electromotor.

Andy says it does not work as well as a drift boat but it does not require a shuttle.

[Rossflyguy]

Captain Andy Guibord likes a 16-17 foot Jon boat that is 60" wide at the bottom rear with a tiller jet outboard.


He likes a set of drift boat oars and a bow-mounted electromotor.

Andy says it does not work as well as a drift boat but it does not require a shuttle.

That’ll be my last boat I buy (in a few years). A 14-16’ jon boat. Pretty much a do it all. Unless there’s white caps.

[tcorfey]

That is a nice pontoon! Reminds me of the Buck's Bags pontoon from years ago. My friend has one of the Buck's Bags pontoons that is similar to that one you posted on. It's a great platform but does have a few cons. First of all it is heavy, with the platform and all the options well over 100lbs as a comparison my Fish Cat 9 weighs less than 50 lbs. The other con is that it has high wind resistance, my friend counters that by using an electric motor (when he can) as an alternative my Fish Cat sits lower in the water and is not as affected by the wind. The saltsteelhead pontoon does keep you out of the water so you can fish it in all 4 seasons in CA, but when having to stop it you really need an anchor where as I can just put my feet down. That also means you can't use fins for slow speed maneuvering. The benefits of the pontoon you expressed interest in is that it handles rough water very well (if you stay seated), being able to stand does give you the ability to sight fish to rising trout calm waters which is awesome (I am always jealous). Overall I really like the saltsteelhead concept and having seen a similar pontoon in action I really like it. Just make sure you have a pickup truck to haul it because it is pretty heavy to move around.

[Troutsource]

Tcorfey, thanks for your comments. I have an SUV that can tow, but I was thinking of transporting the deflated pontoons inside, and the frame on the roof. My friend who owns one even transports the fully inflated & assembled version on his roof. To me the biggest drawback is being unable to maneuver the boat and fish at the same time, as you can with the flipper-style ones. Then I discovered this Dave Scadden option where you can do both: stand and fish, or sit and fish while using flippers:

https://www.davescaddenpaddlesports.com/product-page/outlaw-avenger-x

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

One true fact in all this is as soon as you get anything to float you, it will open up an entirely new fly fishing world.



We started in the 1960s with old round doughnut-style canvas-covered truck innertubes called float tubes.

Then in the 1970s round float tubes kept getting bigger and better with Cordura skins.


Then came the far more convenient V-boats and U-boats.


Next, for still water, many went to 8 and 10 foot prams with oars, electric motors and small outboard motors.


The pontoon boats were popular for lakes and rivers and still are a great option.


Canoes were always around and then kayaks took over and now some are using Stand Up Paddleboards.


I really like a 14-15 foot wider Jon boat on a trailer with a new small four-stroke outboard, bow-mounted electric and oars.

This is a very practical boat for small, calmer water for two anglers.$15,000


After that many have been using a 16-17 foot Jon boat on a trailer with a tiller outboard jet, bow-mounted electric and long oars.

This boat is a very popular choice and compromise for lakes, the delta and our rocky rivers. $20,000


Drift boats are popular for "moving water/rivers/streams" for trout, Steelhead, Stripers and Shad.

In Montana, you will even see them on lakes, fly fishing for trout.


Then you have some using bass boats in the Delta and reservoirs for bass, trout and Stripers.



Today many have serious 17-20 foot aluminum or fiberglass fishing outboard skiffs with decks front and rear.

These boats are good for reservoirs, the Delta, Bays and inshore saltwater.



If you need any help designing or choosing a flotation devise, just go into Kiene's on the weekend and talk with Andy Guibord.

[tcorfey]

Scadden has some pretty nice ideas, just have to be patient on parts and returns as they are a small shop.

[Troutsource]

Any thoughts on whether this Boulder Boatworks River Skiff would be suitable for the Lower A and Lower Yuba?

https://www.boulderboatworks.com/river-skiff/

RIVER SKIFF BENEFITS:

Lighter, Faster, and Easier to Row.

Best For Low Gradient Water.

Lifetime Hull Guarantee.

[tcorfey]

Personally I would prefer a power drifter like this one

https://driftwoodboatsllc.com

[Troutsource]

Funny, I was also looking at this:

https://www.clacka.com/boats/magnum-power-drifter/

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

There must be about 6 companies making "power drifters" that have evolved into really good river runners.

They are a jet boat/drift boat combo.

They must be $30,000 or more.

[Troutsource]

I decided to go nuts and I’m buying a 2-yr old demo version of this:

https://www.boulderboatworks.com/river-skiff/

Need to drive to Carbondale, CO to pick it up.

I may have picked the wrong year to buy a boat.

[tcorfey]

Looks like a nice boat! Good job!

[Troutsource]

Thanks! I can't wait to try it out.

[Charlie Gonzales]

Let me know if you need someone to row, I'm good on the sticks.

[Troutsource]

:D
Will do!

[fivefingers]

I know water hasn't been great, but how has the boat treated you? Any good trips that you've taken to christen the boat?

[Troutsource]

Fivefingers, glad you asked! I just picked it up in Carbondale, CO (along the Roarking Fork) Saturday, but haven't taken it out yet. See attached photo. You can see it's a low side boat, so I want to be cautious about jumping into it with no practice or lessons (which someone has offered). Unfortunately, because our arrival in CO was late, and we were on such a tight schedule to return by end of Sunday (15 hours each way), we were not able to take it for a test drive. First use may come in fishing shad -- will see, and will post how it goes.

Because of the lightweight nature of the material, and the design of the boat, it only drafts 4"-6" and does not sink (the actual polymer material, like wood, floats). This apparently makes it easier to row.

The boat does show some signs of wear, but no problems. It's 2 years old and was Boulder Boat Works' demo during that time. He's selling it because they have a new model coming, with the biggest change being the "shelves" on the sides of the boat -- they're now flat with no dividers to separate rods.

The material comes in 1/2" sheets like plywood. They cut it and can actually weld pieces together using the exact same material (placed into a welding gun). Front and back seats have a Yeti. I'll post a more aerial view when I get the chance.

19026

[PV_Premier]

I’m very curious to your feedback on this boat. It’s one I’m also considering but the price point is savage.