AR Flows

[Troutsource]

Flows were up to 37,500 yesterady, above 20,000 for quite some time.

I thought the new emergency spillways were meant to help avoid this? Are they not yet factored into the flow algorithms?

Just hoping we don't get to summer and say, "oh crap, wish we didn't flush all that water."

On another note, given that it's early January, is there hope this brings in a lotta chrome still?

I saw more salmon redds than ever mid-river this year. Hope they haven't gotten obliterated.

Was thinking of fishing Lake Natoma -- river style.

[WLREDBAND]

A warning was sent to all dam operators last week in advance of the pending "bomb cyclone" that hit to expect huge inflows. Those with limited storage capacity (like Folsom) were advised to start dumping water ASAP. The emergency spillway design has nothing to do with this.

[Brian Clemens]

Folsom is one of the very few if only reservoir in CA that I know of that has a winter max capacity. They start dumping water once it gets above 60% capacity due to its low storage capacity. 977000 acre feet. So for easy numbers call it 1mil acre feet. But we all know with the amount of sediment behind that dam, it doesn't hold anywhere near the 1mil acre feet.

[mogaru]

California is a dry state with a horrible water management, which exacerbates the problem even more.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

We have had corruption revolving around water usage in California for over 100 years.

Southern Cal has a huge population and votes so they take our water.




Some years ago we had huge rains and the water at the Nimbus Dam was running over the top at 130,000 cfs.

That spring after the flows came down the river bottom was "white" and leveled like a parking lot.

[BumpBailey]

California is a dry state with a horrible water management, which exacerbates the problem even more.

Pretty interesting read. Speaks to how improvements in weather forecasting makes fixed water level management obsolete. It is rather archaic to say in the winter time that Folsom isn't allowed to get more than 60% full. This year they are letting it get to about 72% full and they will start dumping water before the big storms hit! Seems like a no brainer for some of our reservoirs to be managed more dynamically than at fixed levels!


https://www.npr.org/2023/01/11/1148421818/heavy-rain-is-still-hitting-california-a-few-reservoirs-figured-out-how-to-captu

[mogaru]

The water level tables used to manage Folsom lake were created when George Washington was president.....at least.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

The water level tables used to manage Folsom lake were created when George Washington was president.....at least.

Good one............

I heard it was around 11,000cfs.

[Troutsource]

Great information. I have more questions than answers...

Are they able to bump it to 72% full (vs 60%) because of the new emergency spillway?

Any plans to remove some of the sediment in Folsom?

***Will the massive surge of water draw up MORE CHROME?

Good news is that Shasta and Oroville should fill pretty nicely, so hopefully Folsom doesn't get sucked dry like last year.

[Mr T]

Great information. I have more questions than answers...

Are they able to bump it to 72% full (vs 60%) because of the new emergency spillway?

Any plans to remove some of the sediment in Folsom?

***Will the massive surge of water draw up MORE CHROME?

Good news is that Shasta and Oroville should fill pretty nicely, so hopefully Folsom doesn't get sucked dry like last year.

My understanding is that better forecasting is the key to keeping closer to full capacity.

At the current rates, Im fearful every egg in the river is somewhere near the Farrallons right now...

[hwchubb]

Another problem is steelhead spawning over what are now spawning beds but will be high and dry when flows go back below 5000 cfs, as happens in every high flow year.

I haven’t read the link yet - are they saying they will hold more water back in Folsom earlier? The 25k+ flows took the lake from 650k acre feet back down to 400k, where I believe it was yesterday, so I assume they are still using the old lake level regime?

[BumpBailey]

Another problem is steelhead spawning over what are now spawning beds but will be high and dry when flows go back below 5000 cfs, as happens in every high flow year.

I haven’t read the link yet - are they saying they will hold more water back in Folsom earlier? The 25k+ flows took the lake from 650k acre feet back down to 400k, where I believe it was yesterday, so I assume they are still using the old lake level regime?

I don't know s from s about water management but, maybe they are keeping it lower because we know more rain and snow are on the way. Hell, the snow pack is the largest it's been in the last 20 years and it's going to keep growing for he next week at least. God forbid we get a sudden warming trend followed by a "pineapple express". Remember 1986?

[winxp_man]

I don't know s from s about water management but, maybe they are keeping it lower because we know more rain and snow are on the way. Hell, the snow pack is the largest it's been in the last 20 years and it's going to keep growing for he next week at least. God forbid we get a sudden warming trend followed by a "pineapple express". Remember 1986?

I know all about this S yooo. haha! Build more homes...!

[Troutsource]

Water water everywhere but not a drop to drink!

Flows now down near 7,000, may be “fishable” next weekend?

Forecast is for the EPAC ridge to reestabliah itself so hopefully lake can start filling, lower outflow.

[BumpBailey]

I know all about this S yooo. haha! Build more homes...!

I've seen plenty of your hit and run comments to understand that you don't know know much about anything. What are you actually trying to say here Aaron? Why don't you form an actual literate sentence and try to make an actual point for once.

[Troutsource]

Any thoughts on when the river will be fishable again? I suppose it's fishable now at 7500 CFS, but does anyone know the flow forecast? Folsom seems to filling up fast now that the outflow was cut back.

Could it be an epic steelhead year, or were the rains too late to make a difference?

[winxp_man]

I've seen plenty of your hit and run comments to understand that you don't know know much about anything. What are you actually trying to say here Aaron? Why don't you form an actual literate sentence and try to make an actual point for once.

I know more than you would know. Point was simple if you would have read my post. I simply sad I know all about the shit you post. And made a sarcastic comment towards California issues. And simply said build more homes cause that will fix the issue here. If that’s hard to understand then what can I say you do you. But since 2012 this gall damn state has only been adding more homes!!! All the while crying about water. Oh to top it off sending the farmers down south in the deserts. Doesn’t take a genius to understand basic math. Something politicians on all sides don’t know shit about It would seem. Or just don’t care to understand cause it’s all about the dollar. Simple enough?

[BumpBailey]

I know more than you would know. Point was simple if you would have read my post. I simply sad I know all about the shit you post. And made a sarcastic comment towards California issues. And simply said build more homes cause that will fix the issue here. If thatÂ’s hard to understand then what can I say you do you. But since 2012 this gall damn state has only been adding more homes!!! All the while crying about water. Oh to top it off sending the farmers down south in the deserts. DoesnÂ’t take a genius to understand basic math. Something politicians on all sides donÂ’t know shit about It would seem. Or just donÂ’t care to understand cause itÂ’s all about the dollar. Simple enough?

When you figure how to stop people from breeding get back to me genius! People need houses and farmers need to grow food for said people. Figuring out ways to keep more water when it's possible and still protect urban areas from flooding is kinda necessary! And about damn time the archaic management system of fixed levels gets reassessed and maybe adjusted. Hopefully Aaron, you are the shining example for us all and have chosen to blaze the path of celibacy to stop this mad population growth! Preach to us some more with your "trust me" facts! Please!

[Smitty Fish]

I was out on the American a couple of days ago. Only about a foot of vis. As for a chart to see a schedule flow. Dream Flows maybe helpful. As far as being more fishable, I would say another week if flows go down more. Hope this helps with your question. Good luck out there.

[winxp_man]

When you figure how to stop people from breeding get back to me genius! People need houses and farmers need to grow food for said people. Figuring out ways to keep more water when it's possible and still protect urban areas from flooding is kinda necessary! And about damn time the archaic management system of fixed levels gets reassessed and maybe adjusted. Hopefully Aaron, you are the shining example for us all and have chosen to blaze the path of celibacy to stop this mad population growth! Preach to us some more with your "trust me" facts! Please!

So its not about money is it? Because you know big international investors just want to give Americans the "American Dream?" HAHA! Joking? Are you a life is fair type of guy so build homes for everyone? Because if you are.... Let me say this as a little disappointment.... Life is NOT fair. And if you cant find a home because you want to move to Cali tough luck. You do not have a right to demand more homes to be built just because you want to move to a place. But hey lets keep building more homes. Because we have all the water in the world and keep sending more farms into the CA deserts. :rolleyes:

As to figuring things out..... Dont come out there advocating that because there are more people we should be okay with building more homes. But after all the homes are built, only then figuring out how to hold more water or capture more water. This is as ludicrous as saying lets get ride of all gas/diesel driven vehicles. Only to not have a back up plan, and a jacked up grid system that in no way can sustain EV for all drivers in this state. It would be nice if we live in reality and not a unicorn utopian world haha!

[winxp_man]

Any thoughts on when the river will be fishable again? I suppose it's fishable now at 7500 CFS, but does anyone know the flow forecast? Folsom seems to filling up fast now that the outflow was cut back.

Could it be an epic steelhead year, or were the rains too late to make a difference?

Flows going back up. At 10k + as we speak. Also if you want to fish as Smitty said about 12” + - of viz. Now if they are up? Yup they’re in the system. Hard to say how many being fishing isn’t really possible. Well for bait and smell based sprays can make it happen for gear guys. For flys and no scent based stuff good luck.

[Troutsource]

Smitty Fish & Aaron, Thanks for the intel. I haven't fished in over a month. Going crazy.

[Troutsource]

Also related to the high flows, I wonder if any of the lunker state-record-sized rainbows spilled into the river from Lake Natoma. That would be something catching one of those bad boys. I hear they gorge themselves off of crayfish and minnows up in the canyon. Plenty of both of them in the river, too.

[winxp_man]

Wouldn’t be surprised! They do get big up there!

[cmcdhuibh]

I walked around upper sunrise Saturday 21, of course the water is murky but fishable. Stay out of the river! Except in a boat. Drift boats are working it. Still has the dead salmon stinch. Saw some large fish a jumping for what ever reason. A few combat rows. I didn’t see any hookups in the couple hours I was stomping around. Nice weather.

[hwchubb]

Also related to the high flows, I wonder if any of the lunker state-record-sized rainbows spilled into the river from Lake Natoma. That would be something catching one of those bad boys. I hear they gorge themselves off of crayfish and minnows up in the canyon. Plenty of both of them in the river, too.

I think it’s been close to 20 years since they quit stocking rainbows in Natoma. May be a few that wash over from Folsom, but there isn’t really much of a trout fishery in Natoma anymore.

[RoosterHunter]

Has the high waters on the American river moved out the homeless that lived along the banks.

[winxp_man]

Has the high waters on the American river moved out the homeless that lived along the banks.

The parkway kicked out everyone and closed parks to homeless. Saw a post from ARiver parkway IG I follow. What has happened in the lower section near richards blvd I can’t say.

[cmcdhuibh]

Cleaned up richards area, highwater cleared out steelhead creek along garden hyway. Roseville rd is at the worst I’ve seen it along the golf course.

[Mr T]

The parkway kicked out everyone and closed parks to homeless. Saw a post from ARiver parkway IG I follow. What has happened in the lower section near richards blvd I can’t say.

And they landed way too close to my house... smh

[Troutsource]

I think it’s been close to 20 years since they quit stocking rainbows in Natoma. May be a few that wash over from Folsom, but there isn’t really much of a trout fishery in Natoma anymore.

I figured Natoma was cold enough to support year round trout. It’s close to the dam and has some depth to it for a thermocline. I’d the fish go far enough up there’s also a good current. The state record was caught there.

[Troutsource]

Looks like flows are dropping!

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/monitoring-location/11446500/#parameterCode=00060&period=P7D

18729

[Natekursow]

I figured Natoma was cold enough to support year round trout. It’s close to the dam and has some depth to it for a thermocline. I’d the fish go far enough up there’s also a good current. The state record was caught there.

I can confirm that there still are a few big ones in there

NK

[McFish]

It seems likely that any large fish there are either spillovers from Folsom lake or bucket brigade recruits from the lower river. I would guess relatively stable temps and lack of fishing, plus strong food source (including Folsom Lake contributions) creates great growth opportunities.

[Troutsource]

I can confirm that there still are a few big ones in there

NK

��

Keswick below lower sac is loaded, but colder temps

[Troutsource]

I can confirm that there still are a few big ones in there

NK

Sounds tantalizing

[Troutsource]

Any update on water clarity?

Flows down to 5200 CFS

[Smitty Fish]

Was out yesterday morning. Starting to turn a little green. Not so much brown as last week.little over a foot of Viz maybe.

[cmcdhuibh]

Did a walk about upper sunrise Sunday. They did a cool job rearranging the rock for a side channel on the south side below the old scout camp area starting where you used to be able to drive down to the water.
Saw a few nice fish caught and released. Water is still murky but better. Just under 5k cfs(dangerous IMO)

[hwchubb]

As of Saturday, it still seemed about 12-15” visibility. I like it at 5k, but I agree with CMC that with that visibility, and assuming that the 35-40K flows “rearranged” some runs, it’s a little intimidating until it clears a bit more. The only fish I saw hooked was on gear in the Sunrise spawning channel, and virtually nothing rolling. I’m sure there are decent numbers -there were at the end of December- but hard for them to see a swung fly yet. Wish the coast rivers were a bit closer…

[Katz]

Walked the hatchery yesterday. Some beautiful fish in the holding pen at the top of the ladder. Very few fishermen at the bottom of the hatchery where there is usually a line of conventional guys. I would put visibility at 2ft. Nothing rolling or moving through while I was watching. K

[Troutsource]

Looks like flows are dropping again -- dipped below 3700 this morning.

Planning to hit it Friday AM, maybe again on the weekend.

So glad I moved to Sacramento and have a river this close, even if it's not blue ribbon caliber.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

In Nor Cal and in the Central East Coast of Florida the fisheries are not what they use to be, even 20 years ago.

Seems like you have to be a really knowledgeable angler who fishes a lot to catch fish now.



Here in Florida, the easiest way and most successful is with live native baits which are hugely popular.

Live shrimp, crabs, and dozens of different baitfish are in abundance when the game fish are around.



In the Steelhead river, the best way to catch fish is with bait, fresh or cured salmon or steelhead roe or night crawlers.


Hard and soft lures are the next most successful way to be successful anywhere with spinning or baitcasting tackle.


The hardest way to catch fish today is fly fishing.......but for many of us this is our preference.



If you can go out with a top local guide or a local veteran angler you can be more successful and learn good techniques.


50 years ago in Nor Cal and in Florida, the fishing was off the charts.




When I was still in the Sacramento area and wanted to catch fish on a fly I just went out with my old buddy, Captain Andy Guibord.

We would be in a boat, coving lots of water and he knew where the best bet would be that day.

I also learned a lot of good fly-fishing techniques from Andy every time we went out.

Today guides with a boat seem pretty expensive to me but if you want to improve your skills it is the fast track.

Andy works mostly on weekends so go in an chat with him.



One thing that keeps fly fishers from being successful is the wrong equipment, the wrong destination and poor casting skills.


Part of this is tying good knows and having the right flies with sharp hooks.


In the 1970s when I ran my little fly shop, mostly by myself, I would tell almost everyone to just go out fishing more.



In Sebastian, Florida I go fishing almost daily now because it is so close and free launching.

I am going out right now as soon as I get done typing. this.





**This information is not for the top 10% of fly anglers who come here, it is for the new and intermediate anglers to be more informed.

[cmcdhuibh]

American river sucker fish sure seem abundant and find my fly often.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Yes, and if you are getting those bottom dwellers you are doing something right.

__________________________________________

50 years ago I fished with young Vern Jeremica in the lower American river for Steelhead.

Vern was fishing a weighted wet fly with a sinking line.

About every other cast, he caught a sucker.

I knew he was getting down cause he was like a vacuum.

I figured that after Vern went down through a run and caught no Steelhead, they just were not there.

He was a great fly angler, even in his younger days.


We all belonged to the local fly club, the CFFU.

Vern's fishing partner was Sammy Matalonie, another good young fly fisher.

In the 1970s Sammy went to Texas instrument and Vern went to the USAF.


Vern joined the USAF and was a pilot.

After the Airforce he became a test pilot for Boeing Aircraft in Washington.

He said he had a hard time retiring from Boeing because it was such a wonderful job.

For decades he got to turn these new aircraft in every which way possible, even upside down.

He finally retired up in Washington and is a top Spey fly fisher, mostly chasing Steelhead.

[cmcdhuibh]

Out walking today between hazel to sunrise. The river below hazel hatchery is really moving and turbulent. The island below has some nice looking areas if you have a boat. The areas around upper sunrise look better. Of course the main attraction is the narrow shoot on the south side of the island. It’s stacked up with spawners and many guys trying to pick them off.
The holding area at the hatchery was amazing. Some very impressive size fish.
The only fish I saw caught where new small hatchery release.

[Troutsource]

Any word on whether flows will get bumped again with the heavy rain and snowmelt coming up?

[McFish]

Thee NOAA Calif N Ca prediction page for the American at the Sac River junction is running 17.9 feet currently. It is expected to be over 23 feet by sat morning. The flood stage is 42 feet, so a long way to go; but a 5 ft rise is huge. Plus, this is a warm storm, and the snowpack level is low, so there will be a large inflow over and above just rainfall. So I would expect very high flows to get as much room in the lake as possible.

[hwchubb]

The only reference I have (CDEC) shows it going to 8000 on Friday morning, but it looks like it will be much higher than that on Saturday. Was raised to 5K yesterday.

[Troutsource]

Crap, I missed the bump yesterday. Which CDEC sit shows this? And does it factor in a release schedule, or just sum up all the inflows?

Thanks.

[hwchubb]

[QUOTE=Troutsource;211518]Crap, I missed the bump yesterday. Which CDEC sit shows this? And does it factor in a release schedule, or just sum up all the inflows?

Thanks.[/QUOTE

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/river/rivcond.html

This is the one I use for current flows, and also has a scheduled reservoir release link near the top. They are only showing the river going up to 7K (not 8, my mistake) over the next 7 days, so we’ll see.

[PV_Premier]

[QUOTE=Troutsource;211518]Crap, I missed the bump yesterday. Which CDEC sit shows this? And does it factor in a release schedule, or just sum up all the inflows?

Thanks.[/QUOTE

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/river/rivcond.html

This is the one I use for current flows, and also has a scheduled reservoir release link near the top. They are only showing the river going up to 7K (not 8, my mistake) over the next 7 days, so weÂ’ll see.

The Lake Natoma release schedule now shows a 30k cfs forecast release for tomorrow

[hwchubb]

Yep, just updated a few minutes ago. That explains the 6’ rise at the H St Bridge on Saturday - didn’t seem to make sense at 7K. Um, fish the edges I guess?

[Troutsource]

Great link -- thanks.

Looks like my garage and my vise will get a lot of attention this weekend.

[Troutsource]

Come on baby

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/monitoring-location/11446500/#parameterCode=00060&period=P7D

18938

[PV_Premier]

Come on baby

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/monitoring-location/11446500/#parameterCode=00060&period=P7D

18938

Winter runs are a lost cause at this point

Bluebacks and shad, let’s see, depends how fast we blaze thru “spring”. If it lasts 4-5 weeks, that will help, but if it does the usual and lasts 4 days we will not see (wade) fishable flows in the AR until mid July. My half informed 2c.

[Troutsource]

What about floatable flows?

[hwchubb]

That’s what I’m guessing we’ll see, 7-8k for the duration of the shad run. Floatable, only wadeable at select spots that may be mobbed. May be even higher, don’t know what this runoff will look like. On an up note, the best dry fly shad season I had was at 7600cfs, so here’s hoping.