The old American River Closure and Opener dates

[Brian Clemens]

Im working on a few changes that I will be submitting to DFG with the help of NCGASA in regards to our current closure and openers on some of our Sac Valley Rivers. What I am trying to find is what the old open and closures where on the American River a long time ago before the current Nov 1 closure and Jan 1 opener.

Any information would be greatly appreciate.

Please keep an eye or ear open for these requested changes. Rivers include American, Yuba and Feather. My request WILL NOT keep these rivers closed for longer, I want to keep the current fishable days open, and maybe on certain rivers add a few more days or more areas to fish. But with our salmon entering out systems later and later each and every year, we need to allow these fish to spawn in peace, spawn successfully and allow these eggs a chance to hatch and alevins to wiggle out of the rocks before being crushed by hundreds if not 1000s of feet on a daily/weekly basis.

I have some great requests that Im putting together, and hoping with the help of NCGASA we can get some if not all these requests put in place. These fish need as much help as we can give them, and its up to us to give them a fighting chance.

Thank you in advance

[mogaru]

As a starter closing sailor bar to fishing from January 1st to April 1st would greatly improved steelhead spawning. There are plenty of river miles to target steelhead.

[Brian Clemens]

Mogaru, thank you for your input. Unfortunately there are many factors, dates, areas of closures and possible new regs that I've pondered over meticulously for several months now. Unfortunately any regulation change to take away fishing days or available water will not happen as dfg doesn't want to do that. The key there is taking away fishing days and fishable water, this is what I'm having to work around and I believe I have some viable and doable changes. Unfortunately your idea takes away more fishing days than the current closure as well as fishable water, as much as I would love to present this to DFG, it will get shot down immediately. I do appreciate your input, but there is a fine line that I have to walk across to make these changes even a possibility.

The reason for this post is to figure out what the old closure was. I have been told it use to be closed till March 1st. That in itself can be used in making my presentation to DFG more credible, cuz at one point when we had more fish in the AR we kept that upper river closed till then. This is what I am trying to verify. I do know it was closed from 94 to 98 due to the lack of fish numbers, but the old closure is what I'm looking for.

Thanks again for your input.

[Salmonriver]

Mogaru, thank you for your input. Unfortunately there are many factors, dates, areas of closures and possible new regs that I've pondered over meticulously for several months now. Unfortunately any regulation change to take away fishing days or available water will not happen as dfg doesn't want to do that. The key there is taking away fishing days and fishable water, this is what I'm having to work around and I believe I have some viable and doable changes. Unfortunately your idea takes away more fishing days than the current closure as well as fishable water, as much as I would love to present this to DFG, it will get shot down immediately. I do appreciate your input, but there is a fine line that I have to walk across to make these changes even a possibility.

The reason for this post is to figure out what the old closure was. I have been told it use to be closed till March 1st. That in itself can be used in making my presentation to DFG more credible, cuz at one point when we had more fish in the AR we kept that upper river closed till then. This is what I am trying to verify. I do know it was closed from 94 to 98 due to the lack of fish numbers, but the old closure is what I'm looking for.

Thanks again for your input.

Up until about 3 years ago or so, the upper area above the Hazel Ave bridge was open to the dam. The wall area was often fished and it greatly reduced the pressure of fishermen below. I would love to see it opened back up and provide more room for throwing flies down below with less fishermen. Just my opinion on the issues the closure caused these past few years.

[Darian]

Brian,.... If you haven't done so already, check CA-DFW's archives. There must be one somewhere and it should include a record of applicable laws/regs in force at any point in time. Good luck.... :cool:

[Brian Clemens]

Darian, interesting, I didn't know there was an archive, I'll take a look. Thanks for the info.

Salmon River, unfortunately opening that up would cause more snagged and illegally kept fish like it was when it was open, as well as trash and homeless. Now that the fish ladders goes up into the basin it will never reopen. Personally I don't think closing that upper section, move the same amount of anglers down river. Those that fished up there did so due to stacked up fish and easily flossed. No other place an the American is like that, where salmon hold that thick.

[hwchubb]

The new ladder was part of the mitigation for the widening of Hazel Ave, with the added benefits of 1) eliminating the weir, which had one of the highest lost time injury rates in all of DFW, and 2) eliminating the constant law enforcement problems in the Basin. So, as Brian said, that area will not reopen, and I agree that a lot of those guys probably ended up at Thermalito Afterbay.

I’d agree with an 11/1 to 3/1 closure above Sunrise at a minimum. Brian has researched this considerably more in-depth than I have, and it sounds like that alone won’t happen without a corresponding change, such as opening below Sunrise to year-round fishing.

I had thrown the above closure out years ago, to both members of my 2 local fly clubs and to quite a few guys I knew on the river. I can tell you that there is very little support for it in the greater fly fishing community, or there wasn’t a decade ago at least. It will be an uphill battle, but one worth fighting.

[Tony Buzolich]

Brian,
I like to say I grew up on the American River way before so much of this poaching and flossing started taking place. My dad and I used to walk to the river behind Cal-Expo before there was a Cal-Expo, before they built the Hwy.80 bridge crossing, or the Sunrise Bridge, or Hazel Ave. We used to drive the old DeSoto right onto the gravel coming down Pennsylvania Ave. from Fair Oaks. There were always lots of salmon then. Large Mepps spinners were the lure of choice then and they worked fine as I remember.

We used to park on the bluff over-looking the Nimbus Dam and you could see salmon in the river then too, but not the crowds like you see today. As the Sacramento area grew so have the crowds and the problems that come with it.

The hatchery and Nimbus Dam are the end of the road for these migrating fish so they do stack up and fishing is easy, and so is poaching with the crowds that go along with it. Obviously this area needs better control. The spawning area, but how far down?

I think Darian had the best suggestion as to finding records for what you want. There has to be records somewhere of all the rules and regulation dates that you're asking for. Where? I haven't the foggiest idea but I think I'd start asking at the main Fish & Wildlife office. They're probably stored in some warehouse or library vault but should be available to the general public.

These are just my thoughts out loud. I like to reminisce about the old American River and growing up there.
Tony

[Dick]

Brian,
I have some copies of old fishing regs. I would be happy to check if I have any from the period that you are interested in.
Dick

[tcorfey]

Brian, you can try...
https://cdfgnews.wordpress.com
http://https://wildlife.ca.gov/General-Counsel/Public-Records-Requests (https://wildlife.ca.gov/General-Counsel/Public-Records-Requests)
http://https://search.library.wisc.edu/catalog/999804946102121 (https://search.library.wisc.edu/catalog/999804946102121)
might be interesting
http://https://books.google.com/books?id=l6rap2wt1pwC&pg=PA42444&lpg=PA42444&dq=California+Freshwater+fishing+regulations+2000&source=bl&ots=u5JY5340sR&sig=ACfU3U0fKhj9tbim6TkcTCtFmKdTBs7Eaw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-x6Wp26b6AhWfj2oFHR81AoI4HhDoAXoECBMQAw#v=onepage&q=California%20Freshwater%20fishing%20regulations% 202000&f=false (https://books.google.com/books?id=l6rap2wt1pwC&pg=PA42444&lpg=PA42444&dq=California+Freshwater+fishing+regulations+2000&source=bl&ots=u5JY5340sR&sig=ACfU3U0fKhj9tbim6TkcTCtFmKdTBs7Eaw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-x6Wp26b6AhWfj2oFHR81AoI4HhDoAXoECBMQAw#v=onepage&q=California%20Freshwater%20fishing%20regulations% 202000&f=false)

[Mark Kranhold]

Way to many people on the A now fishing for salmon and steelhead. The foreign people are the worst part about all of this, they don’t follow regs, poach and leave shit everywhere! It’s quite frustrating growing up on this river and watching it all go down the crapper. I was on a bike ride on Monday and there were 2 foreigners fishing from the shore where the old gates used to go across below Hazel. There is one group of foreigners in particular that over harvest all day long, I’ve witnessed them taking salmon up to their vehicles and put them in the trunk of their car and come down for more. We need way more policing of this river. Good luck Brian, wish I could remember the old regs. It’s called these things we chat on (internet) hasn’t helped our fisheries either. Thanks

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

In the early 1960s there was no "Howe Avenue Bridge" either.

You could drive into the Watt Avenue Bridge access on the south side of the river and drive on the levee down to Howe Avenue.

Back then you could cross over the lower American river at Watt on a concrete "Low Water Bridge".

It was immediately above the upstream/ north bound bridge on the north side channel.

The man who owned the canoe rental company at that time up at Sunrise? tried to get an oar that went under that bridge and drown.

_________________________________________

I thought the old salmon/steelhead closure was November 15 to December 31 from the cable crossing the river at the Nimbus

hatchery down to the powerlines that cross the river at Ancil Hoffman Park?

The river was open back then from the cable crossing the river at the hatchery upstream to the face of the Nimbus dam?

.

[bonish]

Start with a request to DFW and/or F&G commission. My guess is, staff should have no problem supplying this information if it is available. They may, however, ask you to submit a public records act request to either the respective public information of legal division. The reason for doing this isn't a bureaucratic hurdle, but a formal way to help them document activities.

If this is unsuccessful, try using the California State Library. Staff there are very helpful and are a tremendous resource. I know they archive past California state statutes, but I'm not certain about regulations.

[Brian Clemens]

Thanks for all the insight everyone
It's greatly appreciated.

[hwchubb]

Hey Brian,

My insight only goes back to 1985, but the regs have always been the same (except for the late ‘90’s) as long as I’ve been here. The power lines at Ancil Hoffman upstream closed 11-1 to 1-1. Of course, it also used to be open above Hazel. Beyond that, you’ll need to ask the (even) old (er) guys…

[Terry Thomas]

Being one of those old (er) guys, I seem to remember that there was a closure of the upper river in February. Speaking with one of my fellow experienced friends who now lives in Oregon, he remembers the closure starting February 15th for a year or so and then being changed to February 1st. The time period was the mid sixties. Now it’s time for those with the technology to research the facts. I’m sure it couldn’t have been the “herbs” clouding our memories.

[Dick]

I have a copy of the California 1960 Sport Fishing Regulations. Section 25.39 American Salmon Spawning Area. The American River from the YMCA quonset hut, about one mile downstream from the gate at the end of Arden Way to Nimbus Dam is a salmon spawning area closed to all fishing from October 16 to January 31.

Sections25.38, 25.39 and section 25.40 all deal with the American River

[tcorfey]

So the spawning area was from approximately the upper part of Gristmill up to the Dam. That is a significant change. About 10 river miles for spawning habitat and 12 miles for fishing.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

My old friends who are all gone now said that before the dames were on the American river they fished

for salmon right where they put those two lakes, Folsom and Natomas.

So basically they covered that best part of the river with water.


Besides stopping the fish from getting upstream to spawn, the dams also stop the flow of rocks and gravel for spawning.

I always heard King salmon like larger rocks than Steelhead.

[Mark Kranhold]

My old friends who are all gone now said that before the dames were on the American river they fished

for salmon right where they put those two lakes, Folsom and Natomas.

So basically they covered that best part of the river with water.


Besides stopping the fish from getting upstream to spawn, the dams also stop the flow of rocks and gravel for spawning.

I always heard King salmon like larger rocks than Steelhead.

Helped film a commercial up in Coloma years ago. The old timer that owned the property remembered catching salmon up there on the south fork as a child on the family farm property. Love fighting big fish in skinny waters.

[Greg Vinci]

Hi Brian:
The guy to talk to is Denis Lee who is a retired fisheries biologist with the CDFW and authored two books
on Steelhead. I'm sure you can get his contact information by Googling him.

It's great to see someone such as yourself taking the time to contribute your valued opinion to the CDFW
about protecting our fisheries resources. Wish more individuals would do that. I'm not sure whether or not you are aware of this but our winter Steelhead are an introduced sub species that did not exist in the L American River prior to the construction of the dams. The hatchery was unsuccessful in spawning the indigenous fish that incidentally were spring spawners rather than winter spawners as are the current strain. The current strain was imported from the Eel River (and others) and are much larger than the indigenous fish they replaced. The Eel River fish were introduced for the purpose of providing recreation for fishermen and not necessarily for the purpose of attempting to re-stablish wild fish in the L AR. If the winter months were closed to fishing then the CDFW would have no reason to continue their Steelhead spawning program. Just a thought

[Brian Clemens]

Thanks Greg

Sadly the AR hatchery had a very successful introduction of the Sac Valley steelhead from the Coleman hatchery. As close to what was originally on the AR as you could get. A huge number of these fish returned more than ever expected to the AR 2 years later and instead of producing more due to the success, they decided to pull the, they were diseased and killed all that came through the hatchery. They did this despite the Coleman hatchery had no issues the year they were introduced those fish on the AR or 2yrs later. You know, God forbid an experiment actually worked and showed promise, when it does, gotta make an excuse and kill the project.

[costalsteel]

Why ? If the quotas are sufficient for the hatchery not necessary . If that that is a problem make it no kill in the upper areas . Even on hatchery fish if needed and or once quotas are reached . open it up . It's already stupid anyway. Promote catch a release even if it is not mandated.

[Jeff F]

Thanks Greg

Sadly the AR hatchery had a very successful introduction of the Sac Valley steelhead from the Coleman hatchery. As close to what was originally on the AR as you could get. A huge number of these fish returned more than ever expected to the AR 2 years later and instead of producing more due to the success, they decided to pull the, they were diseased and killed all that came through the hatchery. They did this despite the Coleman hatchery had no issues the year they were introduced those fish on the AR or 2yrs later. You know, God forbid an experiment actually worked and showed promise, when it does, gotta make an excuse and kill the project.

Man, I remember those Coleman fish. There was a 2 year period where those fish would come in late August, early September, in really good numbers. Had many excellent days swinging and wet wading for those fish. I recall they were excellent fighters too.