Looks Like Creative Sports is no more

[Bob Loblaw]

I just swung by what used to be Creative Sports in Pleasant Hill today to grab a few tying bits and pieces and its no longer there. No "we have moved to" sign, nothing. Its tough running a fly shop these days. It was the only fly shop along the whole 680 corridor, lots of people and lots of fly anglers....but not enough clearly.

[Idadon]

That’s a bummer. I used to drive over from Mare Island Naval Station back in the mid 80’s while Andre was still there. Used to love the messy nature of the place back then.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

In the 1970s Creative Sports was the hottest thing in the fly fishing world on the West Coast.

When I had the "Fly Hutch" in the 1970s in Sacrament I bought tons of product, wholesale, from Creative Sports.

Dave, Andy and Sarah made a great team.........they had some top people working for them too.

You could see old fly fishing celebrities there like Mike Fong, Earnie Schwiebert and Dave Whitlock.

Before 1970 there were very few "fly fishing only" shops in America.

Then the fly shops really took off..........there were 60 Sage dealers in California....now there are maybe 12?

Fly shops had a good 50 year run but small business today is just too hard.


The new 'One World Order' does not like small business.

[timmosazz]

What a shame. I used to stop in there from time to time. It was the pulse for the east bay. The new world order has nothing for me. I’ll stop there.

[Ralph]

Another one bites the dust. Sad.

As a grom in the early 70's I'd hang out at Andy's in Walnut Creek. I was too young to drive so he would sometimes run up the hill to pick me up from scuba practice. His place was cluttered, dark, kind of mysterious and smelled of mothballs and pipe tobacco. I couldn't get enough. I was imprinted on how a fly shop "should" be. No neon lights, no Linoleum floors, no Jim Adam's fly bins and soft good racks. All of today's fly shops are simply cookie cutter variants of a same sterile model. Useful, but no hint of polar bear, seal fur or jungle cock hidden in some musty wooden drawer tucked along side a bottle of bourbon. Times change. The fall of CS is simply another reminder of such.

[DLJeff]

Spent many an hour in Creative Sports - laughing, learning, and trying to sort the BS from the helpful bits. I loved Andy's no nonsense, pull no punches approach to it all. I loved the impromptu fly tying sessions when someone would plonk their scissors down on the table each time after using them. Andy would threaten to toss the next person out on their ear if he heard a pair of scissors hit the table. (Andy was a proponent of always keeping your scissors nested quietly at the ready in your non-bobbin hand you see). He used to turn cork grips on rods I was building. I'd bug him and bug him and finally he'd relent, tell me to come over around 9pm and he'd get out his cork shirt one evening. We'd dig his old Southbend lathe out from under a mish mash of stuff, search for a sharp bit, wrap on half a roll of masking tape, cut a cardboard box to use as a support for the end of the rod, and turn the grip. The fun part was Andy didn't charge a fee - his price was to bring a bottle of Scotch and join him in a few fingers worth. I could listen to him talk about fly fishing for hours. I miss those days.

[Paul B.]

Called Jamie Burman and he confirmed that he did close the shop. Working a job but still guiding the Yuba and Putah.

Contact is

creativeflyshop@yahoo.com

[Richard Marnhout]

Hello everyone, I am a friend of Jamie's and served as the unofficial shop rat for several years. If you want to know what was the death knell for the shop, it was the internet. I can't tell you how many times some guy would come into the shop and want Jamie to put a (internet purchased),line on his (internet purchased ) rod and reel. Top drawer stuff too! Jamie would be endlessly polite and load up the line, while I would fume in the background. And on and on. The plague provided the final nail in the coffin. Rods, reels , waders, all sorts of items were constantly on backorder. Now I know that you guys up in Sacto do ok, and you have the financial wherewithall to do pre season sales etc. But not every shop can do that, and that's not just flyfishing -small bike shops,bookstores, any number of businesses. So now there is one less shop, one less place for fishermen and women, to get initiated into the subtleties of our game.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Thanks for the feedback Richard.....


Kiene's Fly Shop is doing very well now, partly from moving right on Hwy 50 in Sacramento.

Marilyn and I had no idea how important it is to be on a major freeway in a big town in Nor Cal.



Small businesses, like small farms, have been failing for decades now.

COVID eliminated a large amount of small businesses.

In the 50 years I was in the fishing tackle business in Sacramento it just kept getting harder to have a small business.

Online stores, YouTube, Google and fly clubs (thank God for them) are now taking the place of the good old fly shops.



Us Baby Boomers had it so good but now life is getting far less personal.

People communicate by Texting which reduces human contact.

We destroyed the Blue Collar jobs by sending them overseas too.

20 years ago there were 60 Sage dealers in California, now there are only about a dozen.



As us old Baby Boomers pass away now, so goes many old values and traditions.

Youngsters today know nothing of the Great Depression or World War II.

[JayDubP]

Bill, every so often I re-read a post you made several years ago on the history of N Cal fly fishing-- just so I keep remembering correctly.


Link to your post:

https://www.billkiene.com/forums/showthread.php?42639-The-Heydays-of-Fly-Fishing-in-Nor-Cal-1970s&highlight=puyans


Jim

[Bob Loblaw]

I have a rule. I never drive past a fly shop without stopping in and buying something, even if its just a hat...I have about 50 fly shop hats. Yesterday I took my kid fishing up to the Stanislaus at Dorrington. Stopped in at the Trout Spot and spent $40 on bits and pieces. Nothing I urgently needed, but stuff I always use. A pack of leaders, split shot, some fine gold wire, a couple of packs of jig hooks, and a couple of stickers for the kids water bottle. Last time I was in Creative Sports Jamie gave me a shop hat for her. Collectors item now. Shame.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Thanks Bob......


I can tell you that only a few fly shops really ever make a good living.



Mike Michalak, owner of 'The Fly Shop' in Redding, CA, is one who actually did well in this industry.

Mike 'worked his ass off' from the beginning and is probably still hard at it today.

The Fly Shop has 6 profit centers where most shops have only one or two.

Mike has walk-in retail, catalog sales, online sales, international travel, private waters, instruction at his ranch and a guide service.




The perfect fly shop would be up in Southern Oregon near the middle Rogue river, visible off Interstate 5.

5,000 square foot building with high ceilings, big screen TVs going with fishing and fly tying.

Have an outside 200 foot casting pond between the shop and the freeway.

Have Spey casting instruction and guiding on the Rogue rover. (Jeff Putnam has just moved up there).

Get together 5 big investors with a million dollars each.

Copy "The Fly Shop" model and plus no sales tax.

You would have walk-in from Interstate 5, forget the catalog, have cutting edge online web site.

Have huge West Coast guide service and instructional system.

Make hundreds of top level educational and travel videos up on YouTube.

Have a famous staff of fly fishing professionals.

Have fly tying classes with celebrity tiers coming in on weekends.

Have a huge Spring and Fall event like Bob Marriott's.

Give away points for dollars spent to be applied for travel, private water, schools and guiding.



Any more ideas?

[yubaman]

Missing the beer machine!

[amoeba]

Another one bites the dust. Sad.

As a grom in the early 70's I'd hang out at Andy's in Walnut Creek. I was too young to drive so he would sometimes run up the hill to pick me up from scuba practice. His place was cluttered, dark, kind of mysterious and smelled of mothballs and pipe tobacco. I couldn't get enough. I was imprinted on how a fly shop "should" be. No neon lights, no Linoleum floors, no Jim Adam's fly bins and soft good racks. All of today's fly shops are simply cookie cutter variants of a same sterile model. Useful, but no hint of polar bear, seal fur or jungle cock hidden in some musty wooden drawer tucked along side a bottle of bourbon. Times change. The fall of CS is simply another reminder of such.

Polar Bear? That can't even be possessed or sold anywhere in the United States unless documented pre-1972/CITES, and commercial sale of even that is forbidden by California State law (and a few other species parts, like kangaroo and alligator). The very few internet sources of tiny squares of Polar Bear fur from old rugs for tying purposes won't ship here.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Thanks Jay,

I guess we have over 25 years of posts here that are very interesting to many.

[Rossflyguy]

Polar Bear? That can't even be possessed or sold anywhere in the United States unless documented pre-1972/CITES, and commercial sale of even that is forbidden by California State law (and a few other species parts, like kangaroo and alligator). The very few internet sources of tiny squares of Polar Bear fur from old rugs for tying purposes won't ship here.

Kangaroo and alligator? I had alligator gumbo in the East bay maybe 6-7 yrs ago and it was delicious. Silly California laws.

[Ralph]

Polar Bear? That can't even be possessed or sold anywhere in the United States unless documented pre-1972/CITES, and commercial sale of even that is forbidden by California State law (and a few other species parts, like kangaroo and alligator). The very few internet sources of tiny squares of Polar Bear fur from old rugs for tying purposes won't ship here.

I guess you don't understand what early 70's mean. Pre CITES. Lots of documented pre CITES polar bear was legally sold well into the eighties. Terry Hellickson must have had 50 pounds of it.

[Rossflyguy]

I guess you don't understand what early 70's mean. Pre CITES. Lots of documented pre CITES polar bear was legally sold well into the eighties. Terry Hellickson must have had 50 pounds of it.

Yea I believe I’ve seen some in Fly Fishing Specialties maybe a couple years ago that was for sale.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Every so often I hear of old timers who have passed away and the family wants someone to take all their fly tying materials.

This might be a time to get some exotic materials that have not see the light of days in 50 years?

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

When I worked at Sports Unlimited (big sporting goods store) on Arden Way in the 1960s we had Jungle Cock capes, and Polar bear hair.

Back then there were only a couple of "fly fishing only" shops in California.

From then to now the fly fishing world has totally changed........

_____________________________________

In my lifetime it went from no indicators to indicators for everything?

If someone told me that they would be indicator fishing for America Shad I would still be laughing.

If they outlawed indicators in fresh water 90% of the guides would have to give it up.



I don't need anyone to tell me anything about this because I lived daily through this "movie" for over 50 years.


Most know that I fly fish with only weight forward floating lines, a simple leader and an unweighted barbless fly.

I think many anglers today will fish a lifetime, catching thousands of big fish and never catch one on a dry fly.



Sadly it is the lack of healthy ecosystems and then lack of fish that has caused all this.



I don't think most of the younger ones here would believe how good the hunting and fishing was around Sacramento in the 1960s.

The lower American river was almost as good as the Klamath is now for Fall half-pounders and Winter run Eel river Steelhead.

Stripers and salmon are down 90% at least. It was hard to wade the rivers in the fall for all the salmon spawning around your feet.

Anyone could catch limits of Stripers right off the banks?


I live in Florida now, one of the most unbelievable diverse fisheries left in America.

I use 3 outfits, a 6, 7 and 8 weight, all with only floating lines. I fish mostly top water which does not always work well.

If I can not fly cast then I will stay home.


We have Tarpon from 12 inches to 40# year round in our rivers, streams, creeks, canals, mangrove lagoons and golf coarse lakes?

Nobody eats Tarpon so we still have tons of them in the World. Development, where they back fill wetlands is their main enemy.


Around Miami in the canals, creeks, rivers and lagoons they have Tarpon, Snook, LMB, Peacock Bass and Exotic fresh water fish.


Florida has it's problems from septic systems, golf coarse affluence, Big Sugar industries' runoff pollution, Etc.

We are trying to bring back the Everglades to it earlier greatness.


Our Alligator and Manatee populations are off the charts.



Every morning I can drive one miles from my home and catch 5 to 40# Tarpon off the bank in the south fork of the Sebastian river.

One mile from my home I can launch my light little 15' Super Skiff and catch Tarpon, Snook, Jacks, LMB, Etc.

I fished all of the coast of Belize for 20 years and I can say Florida is just as good.

You do need to go to Miami and below in the Keys to get bonefish and permit.


Many anglers here are going out through the famous Sebastian Inlet in larger 20' + boats for Dorado right now.

We have all the large Blue Water Big Gamefish right outside Sebastian.

[Ralph]

Every so often I hear of old timers who have passed away and the family wants someone to take all their fly tying materials.

This might be a time to get some exotic materials that have not see the light of days in 50 years?

Spot on Bill. When Cal Bird passed we inherited a full fly shop worth of material, tools and flies. I gleaned the very special stuff and gave the rest to the Tahoe Truckee Flyfishers. I hope ever fly fisher has someone in the wings to pass on their stuff when they kick the bucket.

[Bob G]

Billy -

I strongly agree with your philosophy regarding indicators...I am so very sad and disappointed when I learn from a friend that they hired a fly shop and guide to teach them how to fly cast and fly fish, and the friend explains that they exclusively fished indicators.

Best, Bob

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Amen.............

[amoeba]

Yea I believe IÂ’ve seen some in Fly Fishing Specialties maybe a couple years ago that was for sale.

No you didn't, not even the slightest chance you saw natural polar bear, for sale there, or anywhere else in this State "a few years ago" or for that matter, this century. Like a fly shop that sells animal skins doesn't know what is and is not allowed. They do. Old stock is long gone and small retailers don't need Federal violations.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Over 20 years ago Stan Hellickson called me on the phone(LOL landline) from his fly shop, Fly Fishing Specialties, to warn me that the

Feds were just at their place looking for bear hair. I had some nice light tan Black Bear hair on a peg we used for Bonefish flies so I too

all 8 of them and put them into the dumpster. They never did show up?




Small business in America is almost all gone now............especially in California. It almost felt like there was a "war" on small business?

[amoeba]

Over 20 years ago Stan Hellickson called me on the phone(LOL landline) from his fly shop, Fly Fishing Specialties, to warn me that the

Feds were just at their place looking for bear hair. I had some nice light tan Black Bear hair on a peg we used for Bonefish flies so I too

all 8 of them and put them into the dumpster. They never did show up?




Small business in America is almost all gone now............especially in California. It almost felt like there was a "war" on small business?

Yeah, well, a couple million pairs of kangaroo soccer cleats, the preferred material for that sport, still make it into California every year after the ban moratorium on that silly law lifted in 2015, and I doubt they are hand-carried across the State line.

[Rich Morrison]

I hooked a nice healthy fish on a big dry Friday night. In Northern California!!!

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Good job Rich......



A few years ago I took an old Fenwick FF805 fiberglass fly rod, which was our top selling trout rod in the 1970s, up to Dunsmuir to the

upper Sacramento river. I had one of my very old Pflueger Medalist 1494 reels on it with a new weight forward 5 floating line.

That day on a #14 yellow bodied Humphy dry fly I caught a wild 16" Rainbow trout on it below town.



It was so nice........

_______________________________________

I really did a lot of Ted Fay style "high stick nymphing" in my lifetime but we used no "bobber" type indicators.


The man who taught me high stick, upstream, pocket water nymphing (1970s in Dunsmuir) had a Scientific Angler dark 'Mahogany'

colored double tapered six floating fly line with white finger nail polish on the threads making the loop connection point of the end of

his fly line. He told me that years ago he had seen Ted Fay guiding a client on the Upper Sac and hired him for the next day.


Back in the day we used the nice soft, supple Cortland "Peach 444" fly lines back then for stream fishing. We just watched the end of

the light colored fly line to see when a trout had grabbed/stopped our weighted wet fly/nymph.



Later on in the 1980s/1990s people like Ron Rabin started using some Sunset colored Amnesia monofilament pieces to make multi-

colored discrete indicators for high sticking. This really caught on.....

_______________________________________

One of the first time we saw anyone using an indicator was in the 1970s draught on the Gualala river in the winter when the fish were

held up in nice clear slow moving pools. Andy Puyans, from Creative Sports, made a small round floating indicator with something like

maybe spun deer hair?

_______________________________________

When new things came out over the past 50 years or more like factory integrated sink-tips, indicators, "breathable" waders?,

fluorocarbon monofilament, clear fly lines and bead head nymphs many old timer were in shock.

.