Skaters

[Jcolin]

If any of you are passionate about fishing skaters for summer runs I'd love to hear some of your stories if you'd be generous enough to share. I've dabbled in it on the Klamath and Trinity the past two falls, but have a real hard time sticking with it when I know the run or riffle I'm in is full of them and if I tie on a wet fly and a tip I'll be in business:D I have only raised two so far and they were dinks.

Eager to hear about far away rivers too, not just the K and T, for those who have had the fortune of fishing BC etc thanks

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Chris Pasley told me one of the best bets he knew of is the Grande Ronde river in October because it has October Caddis activity.

Veteran guide and shop owner Herb Burton and his crew have skated muddlers for decades in the lower Trinity river in the Fall.

~40 years ago I watched Chris Pasley "dead drift" big Royal Wulff dry flies to Steelhead on the Dean river in British Columbia.

About 30 years ago one of our guides on the Deschutes river would come down behind us and skate flies with some success.


Here are dozens of videos on YouTube about skating flies for Steelhead.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=skating+dry+flies+for+steelhe ad

[Jcolin]

thanks Bill!! have seen a few of those videos but not all of them, appreciate it. Loved desert dries and everything by todd moen of course. that was on deschutes if i remember right.

[RSK]

I was at WSU in the 90's and spent 4-5 days a week on the Grande Ronde and the Clearwater. Most of that time I spent skating a steelhead muddler. You would have incredible hits on the surface with this technique. Almost like a bass. You could mend and controll a slow swing or add some stripps to it. This is also when I started seeing the spey rods showing up and when I bought my first.
I also had some luck on the N. Umpqua. Would strip the fly pretty fast as it skated and picked up a few.
Good luck. Its worth a trip up to the Clearwater for this. The Grande Ronde has become a little private now at allot of the access I once fished and is quite a bit busier since WA state developed all of the public access points and posted it.

Russell

Here's a good video of skating flies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YER0kAjCBc

[Brian Clemens]

Did some skating with clients this winter Dec Jan Feb and March with some decent success. It's all about timing conditions the right water and the right fish, the key out of all of that is the right fish. Some of the best times are Sept to Nov. My buddy's and fellow guides at the Trinity Fly shop love to skate, all they do is swing. Lots of knowledge in that shop and glad to be part of their crew. There's no bad time to skate, just better conditions to skate in/at. This being done on the Klamath Trinity Lower Sac Yuba and Feather for California waters, but also good success on North Umpqua Rogue and a few rivers in AK.

[hwchubb]

Brian hit the keys, especially with the right fish. Also, the ability to swallow your pride helps.

I’ve spent more hours than I care to admit chasing surface steelhead ( mostly with a hitched muddler more than a skater) and don’t have huge numbers of fish to show for it - barely small numbers in fact. Its a matter of wanting to get that surface grab, and ignoring the fact that there may be a bunch in the run that aren’t looking up. I remember something about doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result…

Your best bet by far is the Klamath in September and October for surface fish, at least as far rivers close to Sac. The Trinity is better than it gets credit for, August thru October (and April). The Rogue is also good in that same time frame. The North Umpqua is in a class by itself, spectacularly beautiful with a surprising % of fish that will grab on the surface. That said, it has declined substantially in recent years, but remains the only river I’ve raised a 10#+ steelhead on the surface (notice I didn’t say landed). The American, except for when the caddis are hatching, has been a complete bust for me on the surface, and I’ve put in a LOT of hours trying when the river is above 50 degrees, which is most of the time.

Again, you have to REALLY want to get that surface grab to stick with it. I’d recommend a few things. One, find a copy of Bill McMillan’s Dry Line Steelhead, which will be pricey. Talk with Terry Thomas and Joe Punla at Fly Fishing Specialties, who are two of the best I know on surface steelhead. Book a day with Jason Hartwick on the Trinity - he shortened my learning curve by years in one day. Check out some of the ongoing surface steelhead threads on SpeyPages, it’s the surface steelheader’s version of an AA meeting (“Hi, I’m Wayne, and I’m a dry line fanatic…”). And last, just put in the time. It’s worth the payoff, even if it is a looong time between players.

[BumpBailey]

My best skating story.... We were on a BC trip 6 years ago fishing a trib to the Nass. It was our last day and I had been asking about a skating opportunity. Our guide mentioned he had one pool that we would have a decent shot at picking one up on a skate. We tied on ska-opper that I had in my box. We started working the pool and after 6 or 7 swings and steps it happened. Mid-swing and a huge blow up. Unfortunately, my "lightning fast" strike pulled the fly away. Total adrenaline rush! We went back to the top of the pool and started again. Get back to the same spot and she came up and whacked it again and I missed her again. But, the excitement of it was just so pure. We went back to the top with a little extra rest and went through again. Nothing. So, back to the top and we decided to tie on a non weighted intruder to get it just below the surface, this time we got her. She was hot and it was definitely one of the most exciting catches of my life. I'll never forget that fish!

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[Jcolin]

Great responses thank you guys! Very nice hen bump. My one winter steelhead this winter swiped at it a few swings in a row before finally committing, those are definitley the type of fish we are after. I am new to his videos but have been enjoying some of Loni Wallers stuff on youtube. Thanks again for sharing your expertise and stories guys

[Brian Clemens]

Hey Hwchubb,

I had the opportunity to guide Terry a few days up on the T last Sept and we had one of the best 2 days particularly on skated flies I had all season, best 2 days swinging with numbers all season, it was epic. It was a great year for returning numbers and aggressive fish. Was able to get clients on skated fish (not all landed) each month starting in Sept to March.

Also I prefer muddlers over skaters and I feel the trinity fish prefer the muddler over the skater in most conditions.

[RSK]

what is the "skater" I tied my allot of my muddlers with a tight packed head and trimmed them on the bottom to plane up. They skated very well. Also tied some more sparse that swung like a hairwing. Most of my fish on a skated fly were on a muddler.

Russell

[stonefish]

Used to hook a fair number of summerruns while fishing for searun cutts while October Caddis were out.
Though a dry, a orange stimulator skated across the surface got a good amount of action.
SF

[Brian Clemens]

Russell

It's all different lingo, when someone says I skated up a fish that could mean he or she used a traditional hair style muddler and skated it up or a foam style skater, aka skahopper and skated it up. So for me when someone says I was using a skater I assume a foam style fly and of course when they say a muddler that makes total sense. The skahopper was originally tied by Tony Wratley up on thr North Umpqua, many many years before, Scott Howell got it mass produced. The true skahopper is much more slimmed down that the mass produced version.

[hwchubb]

Brian,

The first fly out of my box is normally a size 6 orange bodied muddler, so I guess I’m not actually skating all that often. I’ve dry lined fish in December on the Trinity (when I forgot my poly leaders) but never tried fishing the surface in the winter. Impressed that you were able to raise fish (or even try) in the winter - what were the water temps?

And JColin, I haven’t met Brian, but people I know who have speak really well of him. And he’s crazy enough to try, and succeed, fishing the surface in the winter, so I’d add him to the list of guides you might want to spend a day with and shorten the curve. He’s also a strong advocate for the Trinity.

[RSK]

Brian, I'm old school I guess. Foam didn't even cross my mind like spun deer hair didn't seem to cross yours. Difference in generations of fly fishers. Skater is spun deer hair and hackle not foam and plastic bobbers are gear fishing.:rolleyes:

Russell

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

This is an iconic little film that opened many eyes...................filmed on the Umpqua river.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YER0kAjCBc


I guess you can pop them, skate them or dead drift them on top?

When you are on or near the surface you get a better quality of Steelhead.

[TahoeJoe]

Rich Z. definitely knows his way around the N. Umpqua. He likes to pop the fly with a rhythmic vertical twitch of the rod. It makes my wrist get cramps just watching. Rich uses a custom foam popper similar to a Skahopper.

Another foam fly that's interesting is the Little Wang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0mzKUiq1EQ Todd is into fishing these and bombers so he covers both styles.

[Ned Morris]

Gosh what happened to the old Steelhead Bee by R.H. Brown? I have caught 90% of surface Steelhead on that fly alone and it's the original.

[Jcolin]

Yes the steelhead bee! Never fished it but have seen it in various books. I may have used the wrong terms, by skaters i just meant any dry you would skate for steelhead, muddlers, foam Ska-Oppers stinulators etc. as far as skating I thought it was basically swinging a dry on a tight line with a down and across or broadside swing as opposed to dead drifting. I could see popping/stripping working well at times. Thanks for the replies!

[Brian Clemens]

I prefer a muddler over a foam/hair skater any day of the week. I've got some in sz 4 and sz 2 that I throw during the winter months when things are just right to get those fish to come up. It is a better be lucky that good, but when it all comes together, there's nothing like getting a sz 2 muddler blown up into the air in mid Jan by an 8 lb fresh chrome dome. I have also found some rivers the foam/hair skaters produce more fish, while the traditional muddlers do better on others. Like I love muddlers on the T, but will fish a mini foam/hair Klamath skater on the K. I don't like big foam skaters, a bit more slender for me if I go that route. Nothing like getting that grab on the surface.

Hwchubb thank you for those kind words. Greatly appreciated.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Thanks Brian

Nice to have some Nor Cal fly fishing guides here to add some of their perspectives to the subjects.

[Brian Clemens]

You're welcome Bill. It's my pleasure.

[fivefingers]

I had a 10 fish day with Brian on the T last winter, swinging. Having a fish porpoise on a skated fly beat out those 10 fish. I still dream about it.

[Brian Clemens]

That was January 13th 2022 to be exact. I will never forget that day, a day which will forever live in infamy. EPIC doesn't even describe it.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Brian....you deserved that special day.


If you fly fish for a lifetime you will get some of those special days.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Skating video.......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBNoJBH35JI

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Nice video of skating dries........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q07QuIrSj_8




Dustin is one of my favorite Steelhead guys too.

You could learn more about steelhead over a beer with him.

[RSK]

Awesome to hear of winter skating experiences skating. Something I tried hard but never was successful.

Russell


That was January 13th 2022 to be exact. I will never forget that day, a day which will forever live in infamy. EPIC doesn't even describe it.

[PV_Premier]

As Brian has nicely detailed, fish on the T and K are pretty willing to chase a skated fly virtually anytime, it just takes some trying.

Yuba fish will sometimes eat a greased muddler too, while they aren't the same as a Trinity 5-10# steelhead they can be fun on a 3wt Trout Spey when they want to cooperate with this technique. The longer greasier runs down in the lower half of the river are best for this under lower afternoon light conditions.

And while a bit different than the true subject at hand, don't forget about mousing for trout when the steelhead are not in the rivers chasing skated Spey flies.

[fivefingers]

As Brian has nicely detailed, fish on the T and K are pretty willing to chase a skated fly virtually anytime, it just takes some trying.

Yuba fish will sometimes eat a greased muddler too, while they aren't the same as a Trinity 5-10# steelhead they can be fun on a 3wt Trout Spey when they want to cooperate with this technique. The longer greasier runs down in the lower half of the river are best for this under lower afternoon light conditions.

And while a bit different than the true subject at hand, don't forget about mousing for trout when the steelhead are not in the rivers chasing skated Spey flies.


Hmm....

(looking at my muddlers)

I might have to tie some of you puppies on during my next outing at the Yuba....

[Brian Clemens]

Fly fishing Specialties has a great selection of muddlers from sz12 to sz4s in many styles and colors. All of which I fish throughout the year. Recently had some success skating muddlers on the Feather for steelhead, again it's all about timing. Huge sz10 cream caddis hatches coming off very early. And that was prime for the skating.

If you are willing to put in the time, skating the dry, it will happen. Watch for fish feeding, rolling or any signs of life, low light is best, but doesn't mean you can get then mid day, I say till about 1030 then from about 4pm on is prime time.

[amoeba]

what is the "skater" I tied my allot of my muddlers with a tight packed head and trimmed them on the bottom to plane up. They skated very well. Also tied some more sparse that swung like a hairwing. Most of my fish on a skated fly were on a muddler.

Russell

Did someone answer this question? I thought a skater is a dry fly, like a giant Humpie, isn't a muddler subsurface? Shows what I (don't) know.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

The deer hair head on an unweighted muddler helps it float.

Then they "riffle hitch it."


The "Bomber" which is originally an Atlantic salmon fly is popular for skating.

[Jcolin]

Never tied muddlers before (im obviously not a serious tier) but ones ive store bought have been both weighted and unweighted. The unweighted ones ive both swung and dead drifted upstream as i would any dry; the only truly large trout i hooked out of the west walker took a dead drifted muddled on the surface. It was such a surprise blowing out of the water i set way too fast and broke off.

[Brian Clemens]

We've been having a great time over these past few weeks swinging on top and just subsurface.

Skaters of all types from your traditional muddlers, to Chuckie Joe's it and even light foam skaters have been getting some sweet blow ups on top. Fished with a scandi on personally hand tied mono tapered leaders. We are also having good success grease lining, fishing slightly subsurface with personally hand tied fluoro tapered leaders with a good number of more traditional style spey flies. Flies like green butt skunks, gt40s, Heisenbergs, silvey spey flies, silver hiltons, green butt hiltons, obsidian Johnsons, anderson euphorias, lady Caroline's, pimps, bh assasins, brindle bugs and many others.

If you plan on tying up some flies, try tying a size 6 fly on a sz5 or sz4 hook, this will help get the fly down deeper when grease lining and give a more traditional swing that the fish want.

No need to fish sink tips this time of year, fish are on the move and grabby.

Get out, get swinging and get bent.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Brian...Thanks for talking and teaching the classic Steelhead and Atlantic Salmon fly fishing methods.

I love reading your great information here.

It takes a special kind of fly fishing guide in Nor Cal to move past the steady diet of indicator fishing for clients.

Today you have customers who want to Spey cast for Steelhead and will settle for more learning and less catching.


Two-handed/Spey fly fishing for Steelhead in Nor Cal really slowed down the sales of indicators.


I am still better with my single handed rods, swinging flies for Steelhead, than I am with two-handed rods.


To transition to Spey/Two-handed fly fishing you need to first get a balanced outfit put together first.

Then get some ongoing Spey casting instruction.

There are always people on the American somewhere practicing Spey casting that you can get help from as well.

[Brian Clemens]

Thanks Bill, I take great joy and pleasure showing anglers that you can hook fish pretty consistently without using an indicator and at times out fish an indicator if you know the what where when why and how.

I just had the pleasure of guiding Terry and Jim on the Trinity and it was a hoot. Found some fish, worked for some fish, talked about old buddies who we've recently lost and made some new memories, we are all looking forward to our trip together in Sept 2023.

There's always time to pick up that 2 hander Bill. Jim who is 80 is still out there doing it, and one of my recent trips I guided famous jazz pianist Denny Zeitlin who is 84 and his friend Frank who is also over 80. He books 3 day trips in early Sept and late Sept on the Trinity as well as 3 day trips in May and June for shad. Then a few local trips here and there on the Feather for steelhead and the Yuba for trout, all on a 2 hander. You are never to "young" to try a 2 handed rod.

I hope and pray that at 80, I'm still able to get out there and be as active as these guys. Don't know if I'll be able to afford a guide, but as long as my knees can walk and back can row ill find a way to make it happen.

As Tim Mcgraw sings "like like you are dying"

[Rye_Tyler]

Steelhead Bee on the American
Ldr’d a really nice fish last week and picked up his little brother at midday yesterday on the Bee.

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