I just don't understand

[Carl Blackledge]

I have a tough time understanding the personalities of some fisher people who spend a lot of time and money going to destinations that produce really lousy results. Two of my friends recently returned from a bone fish trip who are both seasoned fishermen. The fly guy caught one fish and the spinning rod guy caught two. I can't understand why any one would want to put out their precious rubies (probably thousands of dollars) for such a small catch. And in the two previous weeks that place was full and only five fish were caught.

A long time ago I was a tarpon guy who spent thousands of dollars for a two-week trip but I literally caught hundreds of tarpon. I even caught a "Grand Slam" and have an IGFA certificate. I was doing my annual Mexico trip at the same time and as things started to change (get worse) on the tarpon front, I realized I could stay twice as long in Mexico for about half the price of a tarpon trip. For people that really want to catch fish, for the life of me I can't see why you wouldn't want to try Loreto, which has been very consistent for over two decades.

I realize that sometimes people have other motivations for trips, and may like the thrill of the chase or the scenery or just getting away, but all those things are available in Loreto as well. The people that run the Hotel Oasis where I stay are wonderful and the staff will bend over backwards to make you happy, and the food is great. The guides are knowledgeable and the fishing, I'll say again, is the most consistent I have encountered over my lifetime.

If any one would like more information about my trip, you can email me at
carlblackiedge@aol.com. I can tell you how to put together a trip and refer you to the right people. If you email me you're phone number I'd be happy to talk to you on the phone also. I don't get any money for this, I just like to share the 411.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

If you want to go off shore fly fishing out of Loreto, Baja, Mexico I know Carl Blackledge will help you.

____________________________________________


Out of our fly shop my staff and I took thousands of people on group trips for 40 years so I can tell you a little about this subject.


Problem #1) Many people are not very good fly casters..........huge issue.

Problem #2) Many people do not get properly outfitted for their trips.....they have outfits that no one could cast well.

Problem #3) Many people do not go to these destinations at "Prime Time"............very sad.

Problem #4) Many of these old famous destinations are no longer any good.........big problem.


Example: There are probably 30 or 40 "lodges" in the Bahamas or Belize and only maybe 6 are worth going to today.


I would go through a good fly fishing travel agency like Flywater, Yellow Dog, the Fly Shop, or Bob Marriot's.

The lodges pay them to get customers so it doesn't cost you anything.

These travel services have employees who go to these destination regularly and know them well.



We call the best destinations the "returnable destinations".

These are the ones that people go back to, year after year, until they no longer can make the trip.

These lodges are booked up for years during the prime weeks by the same fly shops or fly clubs or groups of anglers.

I had old customers who went on the same set of trips for many decades.

One in Alaska for Rainbows, one in British Columbia for Steelhead, one in New Zealand for trout, one in the tropics for flats fishing.


With the passing of the men of the Greatest Generation many feel that international fly fishing travel will fade away too?


The biggest problem is that 90% of the World's fisheries have tanked.


This why we have to pay $5,000 to $10,000 a week to go to one of the few places with an intact ecosystem and lots of fish.


If you find a place where the wife can have shopping, play tennis, lay one the bech (without bugs) and have nice restaurants then you can be sure the fishing will suck.


The worst the amenities are the better the fishing will be.


Call, text or email me for any advice.........

[McFish]

I went to Loreto in the 1990's. It was good, maybe as good as what Carl talks about now. except that there were no knowledgable rooster fishing around if dorado were slow. The price was comparable to current rates. There were fewer fly guides back then. I loved it then; it sounds even better today.

[Carl Blackledge]

Mc Fish,

We have crazy good rooster fishing. In Loreto the Roosters are all around all the islands, in the old days we always went way out to sea and chased Dorado and bill fish, it seems one year we had a lot of wind so most of us stayed in close to the islands to stay out of the wind, and wow we found roosters, Today you catch 50 roosters per day and that is the truth-10-20 pound roosters all over the place. I usually fish 2-3 day for Dorado then go beat up the roosters just cause I can, and a 15 pound rooster can pull a 10 pound bone fish backwards then eat it for lunch--lol Carl

[fivefingers]

Salt fishing is a different monster I'm no expert on, but if you've ever been steelheading, your mindset really isn't equipped for it.

[WLREDBAND]

Bluewater flyfishing is a game that requires specialized and expensive equipment that can only be used for a very short time period. You fish Loreto Carl, for what, a month a year, what do you fish for in the other 11 months? Thus, there is a very steep entry cost that many people don't want to pay, for expensive gear that has little use elsewhere. Loreto's great, don't get me wrong, but BW flyfishing will never be as popular as trout/steelhead flyfishing.

[Carl Blackledge]

Wlredband,

Your right BW gear is very expensive If bought new, I bought most of my stuff on ebay and I use mine between 5-6 weeks a year in Mexico, however I only pay once and I find the thrill well worth the small price, however You could say that same thing to some steelheader who thinking about graduating his/her game going bone fishing for the first time? By the way I used to use my BW gear also for Tarpon-permit and bones :)

PS a 9 foot 9 wt Sage that a local steelheader would buy costs the same as a 16 wt Sage that a BW would buy-go figure

Carl

[L Kenney]

If anyone wants to save some bucks on a heavy SW outfit I have a TFO Bluewater MD 8'6" 4 pc 500-650 grain rod for sale for $150 shipped in Conus. Used once before I went to something lighter. Think bill fish, tuna, sharks...... The rubber end of the fighting butt broke off and TFO wanted me to send the entire rod back to replace it and charge me for return shipping. I repaired it myself and it's fine.
PM me for images.

[Carl Blackledge]

Larry, I have a guy who wants to buy your rod....call me 707-481-9000

Carl

[Troutsource]

Mexico = safety issues stemming from cartels?

[David Lee]

Mexico = safety issues stemming from cartels?

Not in Baja or Baja Sur . I've been going down since 2005 , sometimes several times a year . Never any cartel-related issues . They are there , they are busy w/ other things .... not tourists . Most who encounter problems are doing ..... unwise things - looking for dope , hitting the cathouse , being drunk in public , etc. . Look for problems , and you will likely find problems .

BTW - my 4 1/2 year old Daughter does the trip with us , and has ever since she was 5 Months old . I wouldn't take her down unless I thought it as safe/safer than the U.S. .

D.~

[Tony Buzolich]

I started going to Loreto WAY back when. At least the early ninties. I booked with Fly Fishing Specialties when Stan Hellickson was running the place. It was always the same group of guys from the Sacramento area. We stayed at La Pinta (I think) right on the beach close to the marina.

Every morning we'd walk over to the marina, find our pangero, and wait for the sun to come up and get our bait for the day. Then it was off, sometimes north, sometimes south, but we always found fish. Dorado were always at the top of the list and there were tons of them.
One day we had so many we had to sit down and take a break as the dorado continued to swim around the boat. What a sight it was to see two guys sitting giggling and pointing at all the fish next to the boat. We had been throwing poppers and one of mine was hanging over the gunnel of the boat just barely touching the water. Suddenly a big splash goes off and my rod flies out of the boat. There it goes skipping across the surface like a water-skier with a dorado pulling it like a speed-boat.

Long story short, I lost an 11 wt.SAGE and an ABEL BG#3. All we could do was laugh or cry, and get the spare rod out:)
Tony

[Carl Blackledge]

Troutsource, or whatever your name is, you are completely wrong and ill informed. Loreto where I fish is 100% safe and the local people will bend over backwards to help you with anything, Don't talk about stuff you know nothing about.

Carl Blackledge

[Carl Blackledge]

David, Thanks for your input, anybody who talks about the Cartels in Mexico shows they haven't ever been in Baja :)

Carl Blackledge

[Carl Blackledge]

Tony,

I have lost two Sage rods over the side in the past 22 years in Loreto, I just lost a rod and my guide said i can see your line, so he jumped in and came up with my fly line still hooked to a mad Dorado, The guide earned an extra $100 that day, i think we laughed all day reliving that adventure---lots of good times for pennies :)

Carl Blackledge

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Salt fishing is a different monster I'm no expert on, but if you've ever been steelheading, your mindset really isn't equipped for it.

Those who fly fish Stripers in the Delta out of a boat should do well in Loreto.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I think Baja, Mexico is safer than most other parts of Mexico because of it's remoteness and low population numbers.

[David Lee]

I think Baja, Mexico is safer than most other parts of Mexico because of it's remoteness and low population numbers.

Make no mistake - the cartels are well entrenched in Baja and Baja Sur . They have diversified , and are in most of the larger towns and cities .... doing what criminals do (getting their Fingers into anything and everything they can to fleece the locals of $$$) . What they DON'T do is hassle tourists . Most cartel shootings are targeted at rival factions , so unless you have the bad luck to be near them when there's an issue .... you probably won't be involved with them .

The most common problem are Police , who will pull you over for any reason/no reason at all , and demand a bribe . Always ask for a ticket , and refuse to offer/pay mordida - always go to the Police station . Driving in Baja will kill you long before the criminals will !

As for the subject that Carl broached .... I guess people go where they go and spend what they spend is because they want to . I know guys who Love the Umpqua , or the Skeena system , and travel to these spots every year , good season or crap season . The old bit about 'Fishin' ain't always about fishin' ' is pretty much true . As a long time Baja veteran , I've found what I always searched for - solitude , millions of different Fishes , and stupidly low cost . The trade off ? I am limited by the Tides , as far as my time on the water , I have to camp , so no hot shower and dinner already fixed when I come in cold and wet . We get whatever supplies are available , and go without some things because they just are not there , and we are always at the mercy of the weather (destroyed 7 Tents in 5 trips !!) . The biggest issue for us is time - we budget at least 3 weeks for a trip (have done a total of 3 Months before) , lots of driving involved , and you must pay attention to the logistics .

I often used to find myself with the same thought as Carl posted - I'd be in the middle of releasing Fish #75 .... or Fish # 154 for the day , and think "I wonder how the Steelheaders did on the American today?" . Bottom line is - it doesn't matter . They didn't drive 2,000 miles , they have food options , they have civilization 5 minutes away . Do what you like , and do what you can do , and have fun !!

D.~

[gitt]

We were south of Cancun in November. There were reports of shoot outs in Playa de Carmen before our trip. A couple of tourists were caught up in the cross fire between rival drug cartels. This was a late night issue on the beach where tourists tried to score drugs. Before we departed, Los Morelos had rival drug cartels shooting it out on the beach. It is a territorial thing for the drug dealers. On our last day, a truck load of Federales armed with automatic weapons entered our resort. I had read that the 1400-1500 Federales were ordered into the area as a show of force and bring a sense of calm to the tourists. We had rented a car and were headed south on the highway between the airport and our resort at night. The traffic opened up and I wasn't paying attention to my speed as it crept up past the posted limit. I could see a vehicle gaining on me in my rear view mirror so I tried to move over to let him pass. Halfway through my lane change the vehicle passed me on the right as if I was standing still. I corrected my lane change and pulled back to the left as a local cop over came me. We continued on for less than a half mile before we saw he had gained on his target and pulled them over. The targeted driver was only four to five cars in front of us. Talk about pucker power whilst driving.

In comparison, I have never felt intimidated driving nor walking around while in Baja. The area around the Marina in Loreto caters to gringos. If you walk into the town of Loreto at night, the town's people (families and young adults) are out in the cool of the evening. There is lots of traffic for its size and if you hang out long enough, you might encounter a truck load of police or federales mixed in the traffic. I think it is a presence that is welcomed. I recall walking around town looking for a pair of ostrich boots. We found a pair that fit and the price was fair, so we bought them. The clerk made a mistake and gave me change that benefitted me by twenty dollars. She looked like she was in an abusive relationship due to her swollen lip, black and blue eye and stitches on her eye brow. I imagined her mistake with the change would only add to the physical abuse, so I corrected her by returning the extra twenty.

When you visit these towns, you are contributing to the local economy. There is no target on you unless you decide to wear it. Drink to excess, get loud and wear your distain for the locals, you are only inviting repriocity. The locals already know that you are not from there. Don't increase your odds as a target as an ugly American. Lastly, respect goes a long way.

[David Lee]

When you visit these towns, you are contributing to the local economy. There is no target on you unless you decide to wear it. Drink to excess, get loud and wear you distain for the locals, you are only inviting repriocity. The locals already know that you are not from there. Don't increase your odds as a target as an ugly American. Lastly, respect goes a long way.

Well said !

D.~

[mems]

Love to fish. Love to travel. Love Mexico, my son is down there now with his fiancée. Love panga fishing. Love drifting a river in Alaska. Love trout fishing on a small stream. Love trout fishing on Big Streams. Love the marsh and a big bull red. Love Bluewater fishing for big fast fish. Love Roosters, big ones are even better. Love mahi, again big ones are even better. But I also love the flats and I love bonefish. I have caught a lot of bonefish, but remember with fondness all the ones over 10 bs and that was only three. It is not a contest, but the joy of fishing that I love. May you each pursue your passions with awe and wonder. Everyplace I ever fished had some degree of risk.

[Carl Blackledge]

Don, You have a great philosophy :)

Carl

[fivefingers]

I kind of feel like this thread is an advertisement. It's very strange.

[gitt]

I have no economic gain nor invested interest here. My comments were related to the dangers/fears of visiting Mexico. I have more reservations/concerns about fishing the American River than traveling to Mexico.

[Carl Blackledge]

fivefingers,

I don't understand your feeling like this thread is an advertisement. I don't sell anything especially trips to Mexico.
However I do endorse fishing in Baja a lot more then fishing for Bone fish on the east coast. I think I stated that fact in the first paragraph of this thread.

Carl Blackledge

[Sonoman]

I know Carl talks up Mexico a lot and has for years. He loves fishing there and his enthusiasm shows, so if you don't know him it might sound like an advertisement. My son and I plan to go down for the first time and Carl has been enormously helpful. I booked everything independently and I believe him when he says he doesn't make anything from the trip. He sent gear recommendations and he helped me locate some used gear I can re-sell without losing a lot if I don't like the fishery. Everybody I talked to so far knows Carl and speaks highly of him. I did purchase some flies from him, because he ties commercially and he knows the fishery, but he didn't push them. So far I have been very happy with Carl's support and I look forward to exploring blue-water fly fishing in Mexico

[Carl Blackledge]

I know Carl talks up Mexico a lot and has for years. He loves fishing there and his enthusiasm shows, so if you don't know him it might sound like an advertisement. My son and I plan to go down for the first time and Carl has been enormously helpful. I booked everything independently and I believe him when he says he doesn't make anything from the trip. He sent gear recommendations and he helped me locate some used gear I can re-sell without losing a lot if I don't like the fishery. Everybody I talked to so far knows Carl and speaks highly of him. I did purchase some flies from him, because he ties commercially and he knows the fishery, but he didn't push them. So far I have been very happy with Carl's support and I look forward to exploring blue-water fly fishing in Mexico

Bob, Thank you for that, That is exactly the message I have tried to send to anybody that reads this. Yes I do tie flies and sell them, been doing that for the past 40 years. As far as fishing in Loreto, I don't make one penny or receive any kick backs from anybody, hotel or guides because I don't want too, I want to catch every fish I can and have as much fun as possible.
Every year in California seems to keep getting worse, so i fish longer in Loreto, actually pretty simple.
Carl Blackledge

[WLREDBAND]

I keep hearing about how fishing in NorCal sucks on this forum. Guess this one caught recently sucks also!!!! That ain't a spawner or a steelhead, it's a trout, and the spawn is month's away. Can't catch them from your keyboard, so get on out there even if it sucks!
https://i.imgur.com/YXDSTdK.jpg

[slage]

Wlredband…..what the hell dude?

First you jam Carl up over expensive, exclusive gear. Then you post a random picture of a rainbow you “slayed”…in a discussion about Mexico.

I don’t get it? Just bored and trolling?

[WLREDBAND]

You need a history lesson so re-read the entire thread. First Carl asked a question, "I don't understand why....." and I answered "why". And the reason why is BW tackle is expensive and very few people have it nor will use it enough to justify the large expenditure required. Simple question answered. If you really don't want a question answered, don't ask it in the first place.
The "random" picture is in response to a complaint frequently elicited here, that fishing in CAL "sucks", which the OP (and others) has posted many times before and also again. So, I posted my "random" picture of a recent caught fish that clearly shows that fishing in CAL "sucks". Simple question answered again. I hope I explained it clearly to you.
And I have to ask you the same question, I don’t get it? Just bored and trolling?
And I'll actually answer your question of just bored and trolling. I've been out fishing the past 3 days and have 25 steelhead logged on my CA Steelhead Card in March alone. So much for fishing in CA "sucks" or being bored and trolling.
Besides, I pretty much agree with fivefingers comment also. Look it up while you're re-reading the thread. And maybe that's why the OP posted? You can decide that one. I already have.


Wlredband…..what the hell dude?

First you jam Carl up over expensive, exclusive gear. Then you post a random picture of a rainbow you “slayed”…in a discussion about Mexico.

I don’t get it? Just bored and trolling?

[slage]

Carl asked, “I have a tough time understanding the personalities of some fisher people who spend a lot of time and money going to destinations that produce really lousy results.

Not, “why do people not BW fish” which is what you “answered,” with: and I answered "why". And the reason why is BW tackle is expensive and very few people have it nor will use it enough to justify the large expenditure required.

No correlation.

Next. You post a picture of a trout. You explain you are proving California fishing doesn’t suck. In a post about fishing in Mexico.
Then you explain to me that, “Simple question answered again. I hope I explained it clearly to you.”

No you didn’t. What question did that answer? That CA fishing doesn’t suck. No one asked that “question.” That’s not a question…it’s a statement. A statement that wasn’t made in this post.

No correlation.

Good job fishing. That’s great. I love steelhead.

I have 211 post since 2006. Not exactly troll type numbers.
Dude, you aren’t making sense. People are being polite. You are new here and don’t know the folks you are talking about.

[WLREDBAND]

I ain't new here. Been around forever. Had to change my login name when the site switched over many years ago. You know long before you even knew of this site. If I used that old login name, all the old timers would know who I am and I'd have thousands of posts. But thanks for your wrong advice. And for the record, you ain't telling me what to post, so don't even try that. And I'm not gonna go in a tit for tat with you because you misunderstood what I posted, which is in response to comments made in this thread. Try re-reading them and the answer is right before your eyes.



Carl asked, “I have a tough time understanding the personalities of some fisher people who spend a lot of time and money going to destinations that produce really lousy results.

Not, “why do people not BW fish” which is what you “answered,” with: and I answered "why". And the reason why is BW tackle is expensive and very few people have it nor will use it enough to justify the large expenditure required.

No correlation.

Next. You post a picture of a trout. You explain you are proving California fishing doesn’t suck. In a post about fishing in Mexico.
Then you explain to me that, “Simple question answered again. I hope I explained it clearly to you.”

No you didn’t. What question did that answer? That CA fishing doesn’t suck. No one asked that “question.” That’s not a question…it’s a statement. A statement that wasn’t made in this post.

No correlation.

Good job fishing. That’s great. I love steelhead.

I have 211 post since 2006. Not exactly troll type numbers.
Dude, you aren’t making sense. People are being polite. You are new here and don’t know the folks you are talking about.

[John H]

I am a little tired of people saying fishing in California sucks. Nobody likes someone else raining on their parade. I appreciate Redband objecting to that which I think is his main message. Let other people do what they want and don’t make them feel bad about what they are doing. They have reasons for doing what they do that you may not understand. I like to fish locally and can do short trips multiple times a week and it does not suck. Live and let live.

Carl does a lot of good things for people. Getting them connected to a good opportunity in Mexico they otherwise might miss out on is a big deal. I have given it some serious thought myself. I am sure there are a lot of people out there who are grateful for help they got from him. Clearly he does it because he likes helping people and not to make money. Anybody who helps people that much has to be a good guy. And he can fish and tie like crazy.

Stop hassling people on the board. Go fishing and make a freaking report.

[WLREDBAND]

John, absolutely 100% correct, top to bottom. Glad someone else gets it.
Let me put it in this context, and translate the original post into my own words: I do not understand why anyone would want to fish anywhere but Loreto, because fishing everyplace else sucks. Consider that statement and you just might understand my posts.
And now I'm officially done with this thread.


I am a little tired of people saying fishing in California sucks. Nobody likes someone else raining on their parade. I appreciate Redband objecting to that which I think is his main message. Let other people do what they want and don’t make them feel bad about what they are doing. They have reasons for doing what they do that you may not understand. I like to fish locally and can do short trips multiple times a week and it does not suck. Live and let live.

Carl does a lot of good things for people. Getting them connected to a good opportunity in Mexico they otherwise might miss out on is a big deal. I have given it some serious thought myself. I am sure there are a lot of people out there who are grateful for help they got from him. Clearly he does it because he likes helping people and not to make money. Anybody who helps people that much has to be a good guy. And he can fish and tie like crazy.

Stop hassling people on the board. Go fishing and make a freaking report.

[Sonoman]

I am disappointed to see this thread turn negative and nasty, which is not the spirit of this forum. As my grandmother used to say, if you don't have something nice to say, say nothing at all.

I fished alongside Carl in the 1980s and 90s along the north coast, and the fishery was in decline back then. We fished the Russian, Gualala, Garcia, Eel, Smith, etc for steelhead, salmon, and shad with a lot of the OG guys you read about in Russ Chatham's books. I also fished the Delta for stripers in the 80's before it was choked with hydrilla. These were special times that I will cherish forever. Sadly, I have not fished the coastal steelhead rivers in years because of the decline. I understand why Carl feels the way he does.

I have also fished the Yuba, Feather, as well as the Trinity and Sac up in "Shastanistan" and we pulled some truly impressive specimens out of these rivers. There is good fishing in CA and just last September my son landed resident trout, not steelhead, that went 24, 25, and 27 inches in a single weekend, including this one (assuming I can figure out how to attach a photo). Truly world class trout. I fish the Yuba for some dry fly action. The Lower Sac has big fish, but I don't like chasing bobbers and dry fly and swinging opportunities are somewhat limited.

After thinking about it for many years, I decided to try Loreto with one of my sons. I have not been there yet and the investment in BW gear is steep but I bought everything second hand and I can re-sell it without losing much if I don't like it. I am excited to try the fishery and I thank Carl for all his help with the planning.

Fishing is supposed to be fun and this forum is a wealth of knowledge and a wonderful community. There are way too many nasty forums out there; let's keep this one positive

Thanks and tight lines


17863

[Ed Wahl]

Maybe I'm dense. I don't see any problem here. Every major poster is 100 percent correct. Baja looks like a fabulous place. No question. California is a fabulous place, again no question. California anadromous fisheries have declined dramatically since the '70s, again no question. Carl is a great guy and speaks well of the fishing out of Loreto. Again no question. So What is the problem here? WLRedband says fishing in Ca. is still great, no question. Since I have had my reading comprehensive abilities questioned before on this board maybe I'm just not catching it. What is the problem here?

Oh, just for the record, WLREDBAND, I'm sure all of the old timers here know you and your past. And I personally am glad you're still around, even under a different handle. I think I could've showed you something on the last Shad run. Fish on brother.