Future state of Feather River this fall?

[fishing&beyond]

The lowest water levels ever reported in Lake Oroville happened this week. The tunnels are empty, and no power is being made. Scary stuff.

My questions are:

With the current lake levels, is the low flow feather going to be flowing until we hopefully get late-fall or early-winter rains?

Will the water temps be too warm in the low flow?

Is there a backup water source that can be provided for the low flow?

Is it ethical to fish for the steelhead this fall, if the salmon make it up?

[Darian]

Not as informed as I should be on this but if even if the flows from the dam are continued, they're probably going to be too warm for spawning/fishing of Salmon/Steelhead (given how hot the weather has beens so far). To my knowledge there are no back-up sources of water for the low flow section.

By the fall, the dredging project on the Feather may be up in the low flow section.

[OceanSunfish]

It's my understanding that the "low flow" section (the historical river channel) is fed directly by the dam's outlet (normal dam release directly into river below dam) The Forebay and Afterbay may actually be fed by the water released by the hydroelectric production, hence, no hydroelectric production, no water divereted into the Afterbay/Forebay. IF this is the case, then I would believe the "low flow" section becomes the "higher flow" section supplied by colder water direct from the dam, not the warming conduit known as the Afterbay and Forebay.

I may be inaccurate with my understanding, so feel free to provide other references, etc.

Not having fish fooled and stacked up at the Thermalito outlet for months may not be such a bad thing.

[Fishtopher]

It's unclear if the water level has dropped below the level of the penstock inlets to the power plant or if there just isn't enough head pressure to turn the turbines. There is also another outlet at the base of the dam that can provide cold water. The press release from yesterday should answer some of your questions: https://water.ca.gov/News/News-Releases/2021/Aug-21/Hyatt-Statement

The state should know how much cold water is left in the reservoir and can predict how water temperatures will be in the river through the fall. You can contact DWR directly and they should be able to answer your question. The Feather River Hatchery Manager should also have an idea too.

[Mark Kranhold]

The future of the west coast is upon us....
Creamatoria, the new “Skeleton Coast”.
17258

[Lance Gray]

Scary stuff going on right now.

All the water for the river comes out from the bottom of the dam. Then it splits and the low flow starts and the other split goes into a canal that runs north of Oroville itself and goes into the Forebay and then the water that comes out of that goes into the Afterbay and then joins the low flow water again at the outlet to create the high flow section of the river.

The Forebay and Afterbay are for flood control for Oroville and there is multiple generations plants on the canals.

The water comes off the bottom of the lake. It is cold.

For daily info you can call the recording line at 530-534-2307 it will give you the cfs coming into the lake, the cfs leaving the lake and the cfs in the low flow and the high flow. It will also give you temperatures.

The lake has been this low before in the past. It will still be okay to fish in the Fall. At least that is my experience. The issue we are going to have is a high amount of silt. The rain drops hit all that exposed banks on the lake and create a dirty lake which eventually will make its way into the river.

We need shit load of rain and snow this coming year. If not we will be in extreme trouble.

[OceanSunfish]

Great clarification. Thank you.

[PV_Premier]

We need shit load of rain and snow this coming year. If not we will be in extreme trouble.

This...the problem (at least on the Feather, different story on the Sac w/r/t salmon) is less so this fall, it's next fall.

If we do not get an incredible winter, ideally together with a very long slow melt next spring, next fall our fishing opportunities in CA will be virtually non-existent.

I'm waiting to see what happens...between the low flows this fall and the Monument Fire, my mood is sour toward CA right now, if we don't get a solid November-December wet pattern, I might forgo a CA fishing license altogether next year.

[ycflyfisher]

The lowest water levels ever reported in Lake Oroville happened this week. The tunnels are empty, and no power is being made. Scary stuff.

My questions are:

With the current lake levels, is the low flow feather going to be flowing until we hopefully get late-fall or early-winter rains?

Will the water temps be too warm in the low flow?

Is there a backup water source that can be provided for the low flow?

Is it ethical to fish for the steelhead this fall, if the salmon make it up?

I think you're asking good questions, that everyone should be asking. With respect to some opinions expressed in this thread, it is going to be far from 'business as usual' on the Feather this fall. That's just not gonna happen IMO.

You're correct that Oroville storage is lower than it's ever been, but that only tells half the story. We're lower than ever before and it's early AUGUST. Prior seasonal lows have occurred in the winter just before storms hit and caused storage to rise.

Here's some historic data back 31 years:

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/jspplot/jspPlotServlet.jsp?sensor_no=3379&end=08%2F09%2F2021+10%3A20&geom=huge&interval=11000&cookies=cdec01

At what I'd anticipate to be daily storage drop between now and OCT, given that pre '14 diverters are on 5% allocation, and demand typically drops going into the fall and the state has been attempting to meet as much southern demand from sources downstream, I'd expect storage to be around 650,000af on Oct 1.

Oroville hits dead pool, the point where the lake cannot be drawn down any further at 604'. I expect it to hit dead pool sometime shortly after Oct 1. As the lake approaches dead pool, it will rapidly lose what little cold water pool potential it has left, and at dead pool, outflow is essentially warm surface water and best case scenario total flow to the river = inflow to Oroville- evap loss.

I'm not seeing how this escapes disaster. There will be water in the river but I'm seeing much lower than normal flows that are much warmer than normal with probably all flow volume being sent via the LF with the exception of gate seepage at the Outlet.

I think this will severely impact all aspects hatchery operation, release schedules etc. I can see the Annex where the raceways are fed by ground water from deep wells not supporting Mykiss development, but chinook production.

When we do get that first storm, I think we'll see massive deposition of fine sediments also.

Also Hyatt shut down due to lack of head pressure @640, but the Thermalito Complex can still generate power at the Diversion Pool dam and at the Robie facility and Robie I THINK has pumpback capability to the Diversion Pool, and that could be used to augment river flows, but storage for the entire complex is pretty minimal.

https://water.ca.gov/-/media/DWR-Website/Web-Pages/Programs/State-Water-Project/Operations-And-Maintenance/Files/Operations-Control-Office/Oroville-Operations/Oroville-Forecasted-Storage.pdf


Just my take on a pretty dire situation.

[OceanSunfish]

By "pre '14 diverters" you mean pre-1914 or Senior water right holders?

[Tony Buzolich]

In speaking with several local guides they are saying that salmon are already confused and are stacking up at the Thermolito outlet because there's almost no cold water coming through the Lowflow. There's more water coming out the dam Thermolito than the Low Flow. If the water in the Low Flow was COLD, the salmon would like normal go in that direction.

Normally the river right now below the hatchery and feeding the low flow would be loaded with salmon, there are non. Take a ride to Oroville and go look at the water behind the auditorium or the look-out area. You won't see salmon like usual.
Tony

[Lance Gray]

In speaking with several local guides they are saying that salmon are already confused and are stacking up at the Thermolito outlet because there's almost no cold water coming through the Lowflow. There's more water coming out the dam Thermolito than the Low Flow. If the water in the Low Flow was COLD, the salmon would like normal go in that direction.

Normally the river right now below the hatchery and feeding the low flow would be loaded with salmon, there are non. Take a ride to Oroville and go look at the water behind the auditorium or the look-out area. You won't see salmon like usual.
Tony


You are right Tony.

I was there on Sunday and there was no Salmon in the Low Flow.

Water Temp that I took was 60 degrees a little warm.

I didn't take the water temp below the outlet.

[fishing&beyond]

Okay, so maybe target the fall run steelhead in the high flow this year and skip low flow until we get some rain?

[Tony Buzolich]

Lance,

We've still been fishing the main river for striped bass and the temperatures have been reading 69.5 to 71.? degrees for weeks now.
As for the dredging and the silt build-up down lower, it won't help the salmon or the striped bass come up if there's NO water coming down.

There's an old saying about "follow the money" and this poor water management is a perfect example of that. Yes, we're having a drought, but instead of saving water for people, power, and wildlife, the big money is buying up the managers and sending it to irrigate wasteland in the central valley.

San Diego County by contrast says they have more water than they need and will be good until 2045 if they have to. They have been increasing the higth of their dams, using huge desalination plants to convert sea water, and even using converted waste water from their sanitation plants. There's a really good video on YouTube about San Diego's water.
Tony

[Lance Gray]

Lance,

We've still been fishing the main river for striped bass and the temperatures have been reading 69.5 to 71.? degrees for weeks now.
As for the dredging and the silt build-up down lower, it won't help the salmon or the striped bass come up if there's NO water coming down.

There's an old saying about "follow the money" and this poor water management is a perfect example of that. Yes, we're having a drought, but instead of saving water for people, power, and wildlife, the big money is buying up the managers and sending it to irrigate wasteland in the central valley.

San Diego County by contrast says they have more water than they need and will be good until 2045 if they have to. They have been increasing the higth of their dams, using huge desalination plants to convert sea water, and even using converted waste water from their sanitation plants. There's a really good video on YouTube about San Diego's water.
Tony

Yes sir follow the money!!

[ycflyfisher]

By "pre '14 diverters" you mean pre-1914 or Senior water right holders?

My mistake, that should have read post '14. While attempting to confirm some things yesterday, I was also told about this:

https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/press_room/press_releases/2021/pr08042021_delta_emergency_regulation.pdf

I'd consider my knowledge of CA water rights and the respective history better than rudimentary, but it's not something I'm well versed in, but by my account the state telling 1000's of riparian rights holders they can no longer divert is game changing.

[ycflyfisher]

In speaking with several local guides they are saying that salmon are already confused and are stacking up at the Thermolito outlet because there's almost no cold water coming through the Lowflow. There's more water coming out the dam Thermolito than the Low Flow. If the water in the Low Flow was COLD, the salmon would like normal go in that direction.

Tony

You can believe that if you want to but it's just not true:

Water temps at Robinson's for the last two weeks this year:

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/jspplot/jspPlotServlet.jsp?sensor_no=33748&end=08%2F11%2F2021+20%3A18&geom=huge&interval=15&cookies=cdec01

Same period for last year:

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/jspplot/jspPlotServlet.jsp?sensor_no=33748&end=08%2F11%2F2020+20%3A18&geom=huge&interval=15&cookies=cdec01

[ycflyfisher]

Okay, so maybe target the fall run steelhead in the high flow this year and skip low flow until we get some rain?

My advice would be to go sooner rather than later and you'll definitely find better temps higher up. I definitely would not wait until the first major storm. The trib channels in the lake that are normally under 100+ feet of water are exposed, and even with the tribs at ultra low base flow, the tribs are cutting deep channels thru insanely massive sediment bars that have formed over 53 years of deposition. When those tribs head over 1000+cfs, all those fine sediments are going to go into suspension. The period until the river returns to fishable turbidity won't be measured days, but months IMO. I wouldn't be totally shocked if the lake fairs no better than Lewiston did in the 96/97 flood event.

I'd consider also the possibility of the DFW shutting down a river that's being fed from a res approaching dead pool.

[ycflyfisher]

Just some more info:

The Feather Annex, the set of raceways on the west side of the Afterbay has been abandoned in place and is no longer operational, The main facility only has chillers to support incubation.

3 of the 4 penstocks at the Ron Robie plant @the forebay/afterbay dam house generator pumps that do have pump back capability.

DWR is currently conducting an emergency river eval. I expect we'll get more information upon completion.

[Troutsource]

Great conversation and I'd be curious to hear what people expect for the Lower American.

[Brian Clemens]

Robinson Riffle, aka office, aka fisherman's gate is averaging 52 to 55° constantly, palm Riffle is upper 60s to upper 63° constantly as well as gridley in the low 66s to low 70s.

[fishing&beyond]

Robinson Riffle, aka office, aka fisherman's gate is averaging 52 to 55° constantly, palm Riffle is upper 60s to upper 63° constantly as well as gridley in the low 66s to low 70s.

Thanks Brian is there a site where you are getting this info or was this a personal observation on the water?

[Brian Clemens]

Its actually both, I keep a mechanical lazer temp gun on the boat with me and also I get temps from CDEC. Dreamflows has temps for some rivers as well.

[ycflyfisher]

Some good news. The river is currently being fed by what's called the River Valve Outlet System (RVOS). The RVOS was cast into place in Div 2, one of the two 37' ID diversion tunnels that were installed to facilitate dam construction. Div 2 has an invert elevation of 225'.

What that means is the dead pool elevation of 604' that was quoted by the DWR Media office in the past critically dry years of 2014 and 2015 is wrong and the lake can be drawn down far below that elevation.

Temps shouldn't be a concern this fall either.

I don't know anything about the American but the CVP has a bit more flexibility than the SWP does (the SWP has Oroville, the CVP has several impoundments) and can use flows from Trinity and Shasta to meet demands downstream of the mouth of the American. Upstream storage from Folsom (on paper) looks a bit better than on Oroville also, and I think Nimbus has recirc chillers.

[fishing&beyond]

Some good news. The river is currently being fed by what's called the River Valve Outlet System (RVOS). The RVOS was cast into place in Div 2, one of the two 37' ID diversion tunnels that were installed to facilitate dam construction. Div 2 has an invert elevation of 225'.

What that means is the dead pool elevation of 604' that was quoted by the DWR Media office in the past critically dry years of 2014 and 2015 is wrong and the lake can be drawn down far below that elevation.

Temps shouldn't be a concern this fall either.

I don't know anything about the American but the CVP has a bit more flexibility than the SWP does (the SWP has Oroville, the CVP has several impoundments) and can use flows from Trinity and Shasta to meet demands downstream of the mouth of the American. Upstream storage from Folsom (on paper) looks a bit better than on Oroville also, and I think Nimbus has recirc chillers.

Great news! Thanks for bringing some sunshine to all the doom and gloom that's been going around.

[fishing&beyond]

To all those interested I just returned from the Low-Flow Feather. Flows are perfect water is cold and the steelhead and salmon are there. Eggs and caddis were the tickets. The biggest fish was 24inch.