Catalytic converter stolen under Hwy 20 Bridge on Lower Yuba

[Ken Kondo]

Yesterday, while I was fishing the lower Yuba, a thief cut off and stole the catalytic converter from my Prius parked under the Parks Bar Bridge. I read that this kind of theft is quite common. So if you are a Prius or hybrid owner, you might want to invest in a theft-deterrent metal plate. (That is what I'm going to do.) One article said thieves go after catalytic converters on hybrids because the precious metals in them are less degraded and fetch higher prices.
Driving home in a super-loud car, I felt like a boom car driver.:)
Ken

[Ralph]

Yesterday, while I was fishing the lower Yuba, a thief cut off and stole the catalytic converter from my Prius parked under the Parks Bar Bridge.

What a bummer. ANY vehicle parked at the Park's Bar bridge is at risk. Thieves consider the place a pick 'n pull. I lost an Avon drifter, its frame, ice chest, and oars stolen from the back of a locked pick up (they smashed the camper shell door with a rock). Mid day and in plain sight of the road. When I filed a police report in Marysville, the sergeant said it was the most burglary prone area in Yuba County - and that says a lot. It is at the extreme edge of the county and they can't afford to patrol the area often and the tweakers know it.

[WLREDBAND]

What he said! One of the many reasons I don't fish the Yuba any longer. The question is not if your car is going to be broken into, it's only when.

What a bummer. ANY vehicle parked at the Park's Bar bridge is at risk. Thieves consider the place a pick 'n pull. I lost an Avon drifter, its frame, ice chest, and oars stolen from the back of a locked pick up (they smashed the camper shell door with a rock). Mid day and in plain sight of the road. When I filed a police report in Marysville, the sergeant said it was the most burglary prone area in Yuba County - and that says a lot. It is at the extreme edge of the county and they can't afford to patrol the area often and the tweakers know it.

[yubaman]

Man, that sucks. I was broken into one day several years ago. They didn't touch about $2k in fly rods, or a brand spanking new set of Titleist AP2 irons that were in my car. They did take 20 CD's, my clothing bag and cell phone. Unfortunately for them, the cell phone was what led the Yuba County Sheriff's to their location and they nailed them. House full of tweakers in Marysville. They said their garage looked like a swap meet.

[Woodman]

Man, that sucks. I was broken into one day several years ago. They didn't touch about $2k in fly rods, or a brand spanking new set of Titleist AP2 irons that were in my car. They did take 20 CD's, my clothing bag and cell phone. Unfortunately for them, the cell phone was what led the Yuba County Sheriff's to their location and they nailed them. House full of tweakers in Marysville. They said their garage looked like a swap meet.

Amazing they got caught. Part of the problem is they can do anything they want with very little risk of consequences. In most cases, the police report is just for insurance purposes. We had $15,000 of repairs on four new Tundras parked overnight at the office. Catalytic converters on three. New gas tanks on two because they just drill a hole and collect the gas in a bucket (why siphon). Two tailgates stolen. Gotta love California.

[avidangler]

Gotta love California.

This doesn't just happen in California

[Mark Kranhold]

Sorry to hear that, that sucks! I would love to exterminate all the tweak scum of the earth, and believe me I would enjoy doing it!! 16890

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Maybe it is time to leave "good old" California, all together?


With all the homeless not being dealt with.

Prisons being emptied and closed down.

Felonies are now Misdemeanors. Misdemeanors and now Incidents.

All the illegals flooding in now with open borders.

Police being persecuted and defunded.

To say nothing about our infrastructure.......our roads are terrible.

High gas prices and taxes going up.



Not the California I grew up in back in the 1950s........

[PV_Premier]

Show us jobs in Wyoming that pay and we will have many willing to leave. Sadly, CA is still not a bad place to make a buck.

And if you’ve been following along, the borders are not wide open...

[BobVP]

Maybe it is time to leave "good old" California, all together?


With all the homeless not being dealt with.

Prisons being emptied and closed down.

Felonies are now Misdemeanors. Misdemeanors and now Incidents.

All the illegals flooding in now with open borders.

Police being persecuted and defunded.

To say nothing about our infrastructure.......our roads are terrible.

High gas prices and taxes going up.



Not the California I grew up in back in the 1950s........

I tried, for a short while, to not respond to this but it is just sticking a little too much...

Ah yes, the 50s in California, the decade of my youth as well, where:

Logging companies essentially destroyed tens of millions of salmon and trout with siltation and total disregard for wildlife.

When there was no care at all about vehicles spoiling the air.

A time when interracial marriage was actually outlawed!

When one could not buy a house because of one's color or nationality.

Litter covered the roadways and toxic waste was spewed into waterways.

Bill, I absolutely respect what you have done and what you keep doing to keep this sport we all love alive and healthy and growing and I even "get" what you mean by the words you wrote above...the lack of common decency that seemed to be the norm 60 years ago...everywhere, not just California.
But playing the "good old days" card across the board does a lot of injustice to both the evils of the past and the hard work that has been done to bring about positive change. (My daughter and granddaughter could not have attended college in most of the colleges in CA during the 1950s. Now they can.)
I too miss that sense we had of life being kinder...people being kinder and more helpful, but the reality was we were mostly blind to the bad things happening to the Earth in the name of progress. We tried out best (unwittingly) to not take a closer look at how things were being done just as long as there was a promise of profit. We lost so much.

Just as much as turning a blind eye to all that was "bad" or ill-conceived and believing everything was rosy it would be just as bad of me to propound that the entire era was evil. It was not simply "one or the other". We started paying attention to how to do things better and we started changing things with an eye to future generations (human and animal) surviving.

Human history is...complicated. Always has been and always will be.

I do not want to go back to being able to kill 20 or more trout in a day. I do not want to willy-nilly take abalone off the rocks of my home coast. I want limits! I want people and companies to be held accountable for disregarding the Earth and for disregarding each other.

It is an absolute shame that the crime of stealing somebody else's stuff...of breaking into their cars...of being impoverished by drugs (or any other reason) has become the norm but it happened in the 50s as well! I do not have any answers but I do know the ills of the world cannot all be blamed of political situations, such as people coming here to make abetter life (Both my mother and father did just that! One in 1912 and one in 1926), police being held accountable (They should be..as everyone should be...and, I have five people on my family that have had careers in law enforcement).

I will offer this: World population in 1955 was just under 2,800,000,000. Population today: 7,900,000,000! We cannot continue to pretend this is not happening without making sure everyone os cared for and part of that is changing the out of balance levels of health care, jobs and food distribution. Without that...with just making overt threats to people on drugs that steal things...there are going to be a lot more thefts before things change.

Yes, it pisses me off too and I hate worrying about where I park and I am sorry for everyone who is violated in this way...I hate that the beautiful foothills of California seem to be the beehive of meth addiction....I hate it and it makes me sad, but I do not want to go back to the evils (hidden and otherwise) we have crawled and clawed out of from the days of my youth.

With all respect.

[Ralph]

...

With all respect.

Beautiful post Bob. For all of its warts, I love California.

I've been very lucky to have travelled and fished around the world (gotten paid many times to do it!), but I have yet to find anywhere else that comes close to everything California has to offer. I live in the NE part of the state and have a total disconnect from LA, the Bay Area and even Sacramento. California is NOT just homeless, drug addicts, criminals, or the Kardashians.This morning, on PUBLIC water I caught a 7 pound brown and a 4 pound rainbow before breakfast (NOPE! location will not be disclosed on social media or even a private PM). We have our mountains, high prairie, the Central Valley and the desert. What other state can claim that? Get OVER the social issues and dig even a tiny bit into why California has the world's 5th largest economy and the 4th highest ranking of places people, from around the world, would want to live.

Any time someone suggests it's time to leave California, it's probably a good idea. For them. I am 5th generation and looking at 6th and 7th gen with our kids and grandkids. We're here to stay.

[Jcolin]

I also really enjoyed your post Bob. Being born and raised here i’d have a hard time ever leaving despite plenty of BS for sure. Im all for folks leaving the state! Was tickled reading about the tech folks leaving the bay area to work remotely in cheaper states during the pandemic. Ralph i remember reading, i believe in my dads old copy of sierra trout guide or somewhere else, that your great grandparents (or great great etc) transplanted trout in milk pails in the sierras to remote lakes? Unless i got the wrong Ralph, ive assumed that you’re R Cutter. Alwyas very appreciative when im backpacking the sierras and find various lakes that somebody, usually, brought the trout there a long time ago.

[Ed Wahl]

Bob that post is a real gem. Thank you.
Ed

[Mr T]

I tried, for a short while, to not respond to this but it is just sticking a little too much...

Ah yes, the 50s in California, the decade of my youth as well, where:

Logging companies essentially destroyed tens of millions of salmon and trout with siltation and total disregard for wildlife.

When there was no care at all about vehicles spoiling the air.

A time when interracial marriage was actually outlawed!

When one could not buy a house because of one's color or nationality.

Litter covered the roadways and toxic waste was spewed into waterways.

Bill, I absolutely respect what you have done and what you keep doing to keep this sport we all love alive and healthy and growing and I even "get" what you mean by the words you wrote above...the lack of common decency that seemed to be the norm 60 years ago...everywhere, not just California.
But playing the "good old days" card across the board does a lot of injustice to both the evils of the past and the hard work that has been done to bring about positive change. (My daughter and granddaughter could not have attended college in most of the colleges in CA during the 1950s. Now they can.)
I too miss that sense we had of life being kinder...people being kinder and more helpful, but the reality was we were mostly blind to the bad things happening to the Earth in the name of progress. We tried out best (unwittingly) to not take a closer look at how things were being done just as long as there was a promise of profit. We lost so much.

Just as much as turning a blind eye to all that was "bad" or ill-conceived and believing everything was rosy it would be just as bad of me to propound that the entire era was evil. It was not simply "one or the other". We started paying attention to how to do things better and we started changing things with an eye to future generations (human and animal) surviving.

Human history is...complicated. Always has been and always will be.

I do not want to go back to being able to kill 20 or more trout in a day. I do not want to willy-nilly take abalone off the rocks of my home coast. I want limits! I want people and companies to be held accountable for disregarding the Earth and for disregarding each other.

It is an absolute shame that the crime of stealing somebody else's stuff...of breaking into their cars...of being impoverished by drugs (or any other reason) has become the norm but it happened in the 50s as well! I do not have any answers but I do know the ills of the world cannot all be blamed of political situations, such as people coming here to make abetter life (Both my mother and father did just that! One in 1912 and one in 1926), police being held accountable (They should be..as everyone should be...and, I have five people on my family that have had careers in law enforcement).

I will offer this: World population in 1955 was just under 2,800,000,000. Population today: 7,900,000,000! We cannot continue to pretend this is not happening without making sure everyone os cared for and part of that is changing the out of balance levels of health care, jobs and food distribution. Without that...with just making overt threats to people on drugs that steal things...there are going to be a lot more thefts before things change.

Yes, it pisses me off too and I hate worrying about where I park and I am sorry for everyone who is violated in this way...I hate that the beautiful foothills of California seem to be the beehive of meth addiction....I hate it and it makes me sad, but I do not want to go back to the evils (hidden and otherwise) we have crawled and clawed out of from the days of my youth.

With all respect.


Beautiful post Bob. For all of its warts, I love California.

I've been very lucky to have travelled and fished around the world (gotten paid many times to do it!), but I have yet to find anywhere else that comes close to everything California has to offer. I live in the NE part of the state and have a total disconnect from LA, the Bay Area and even Sacramento. California is NOT just homeless, drug addicts, criminals, or the Kardashians.This morning, on PUBLIC water I caught a 7 pound brown and a 4 pound rainbow before breakfast (NOPE! location will not be disclosed on social media or even a private PM). We have our mountains, high prairie, the Central Valley and the desert. What other state can claim that? Get OVER the social issues and dig even a tiny bit into why California has the world's 5th largest economy and the 4th highest ranking of places people, from around the world, would want to live.

Any time someone suggests it's time to leave California, it's probably a good idea. For them. I am 5th generation and looking at 6th and 7th gen with our kids and grandkids. We're here to stay.




Good points on both sides here.

Bob, you are correct that we have made a lot of good steps in many directions, but unfortunately the political powers have bowed to pressure and are allowing behavior that is flat out wrong to pass unchecked or contested. I don't think anyone would disagree with me when I say this is not the way to run a society. How we can fix it (if that is really an option now), I do not have the answer to that.

Ralph, I'm 3rd gen, and love the state as well. But the politics are so far to one side that its hard to stomach living here. I've often considered leaving and have not ruled it out yet. You are fortunate (Note that I am not saying this in a perjorative manner here- more out of respect that you made the decisions that allow it) in that you enjoy a total disconnect from the LA, the Bay Area and and even Sacramento. Moving to a remote region of the state appears to my eye to be a similar response not much unlike leaving the state.

I live in Sacramento, and work in the biotech industries, so I am working daily in those areas. For me to make my living, I have to make this deal with the devil, as the 5th largest economy in the world generates the majority of the revenue in a few concentrated regions. Telling someone to get over the social issues is not a simple thing to do when my downtown is boarded up like a war zone since the last round of protests, and I see street after street covered in litter, waste and debris. It's shoved down my throat daily.

Is California a great state? yes, compared to most anywhere else in country or most of the world, so its not a surprise people want to live here. But it has lost much of the appeal if you have to live or work in the urban areas.

Do I want to leave California? Not really- I loved growing up here and wish I could offer the same to my kids and grandkids.

[Ralph]

I also really enjoyed your post Bob. Being born and raised here i’d have a hard time ever leaving despite plenty of BS for sure. Im all for folks leaving the state! Was tickled reading about the tech folks leaving the bay area to work remotely in cheaper states during the pandemic. Ralph i remember reading, i believe in my dads old copy of sierra trout guide or somewhere else, that your great grandparents (or great great etc) transplanted trout in milk pails in the sierras to remote lakes? Unless i got the wrong Ralph, ive assumed that you’re R Cutter. Alwyas very appreciative when im backpacking the sierras and find various lakes that somebody, usually, brought the trout there a long time ago.
Yeah, R Cutter! My great and great great grand fathers were very instrumental in some of the original southern high Sierra stocking (sometimes for better and sometimes not so much). My great great grandfather Kennedy was a shepherd and mapped much of the high country - his name still sticks to some of the geographic place names. I'm glad those guys have provided you pleasure so many generations later.

[Bob Loblaw]

Bob that post is a real gem. Thank you.
Ed

I echo every single sentiment in that post. I emigrated to California from Ireland in 1994 with $400 in my pocket and a half promise of a below minimum wage job. Today I own my own home in the Bay Area (thats worth far too much), I'm married to a great woman, have a great daughter who can cast better than most men twice her age, a career I love and more money than I every thought I'd have in three lifetimes. I live in the best place in the world and get to enjoy great mountain biking on my doorstep and great skiiing and fly fishing just a few hours away, and the beach an hour to the west. For all its faults and the challenges we face, California and in particular Northern California, is as good as it gets.

[David Lee]

We left CA. last July , single best thing I have ever done .

I traded the homeless crapping in the streets for dead silence at Night . I traded the druggies smoking meth at the local park for a ridge top full of Wildlife . I traded civil unrest for isolation on the outskirts of a town of 20,000 . I traded the lawlessness for a 20 minute drive to the closest grocery store . Leaving my birth State to go off into the unknown was a gamble , and we won it .

My Daughter will never grow up thinking any of that nonsense is normal , or acceptable .

D.~

[Rossflyguy]

California is great, once you leave the major cities. But the problem is the major cities control the politics in this state. Which is a huge issue. On top of that we are taxed the most and seem to not know where our money is being spent. All the horrible roads, poor public school education, high homeless population, and yet we don’t have the money to fix these problems? The issue number one issue is the people voting these snakes back into office where they’ll keep doing less and taking more. That’s the problem. People are dedicated to a specific party regardless how bad the state is being handled. If we leave the state nothing is gonna change. If you pretend there’s nothing wrong nothing is gonna change. We need to remove these career politicians and vote in people that want this state to be #1 where it counts. Not #1 at making mathematics a racial issue. It’s gone too far.

[mogaru]

Leaving or staying in California is a personal choice, however Bill wisely brought some of the issues that are dragging the state in the mud. When I retired a few years ago I thought about leaving the sate, but after 36 years and a serious thinking I decided to stay. I picked a great location close to rivers and not too far away from major metropolitan areas and I'm really happy with my decision, at least for right now. Are there any other great places to live in this great country of ours? You bet there are. At the end is what you make out of life. Go fishing before is too late !!!!!!

[grnwtrs]

I'm sorry, but I must challenge the fact that we have "career politicians" at this point in our state government.

Contrary, we have CAREER LOBBYISTS (SP) who take control of the newly elected "pol"and explain to him/her how things work.
Then when our new elected "pol" is termed out, we elect someone else, NEW. to the job. And so it goes.

How else are we to build up expertise, and I mean expertise in government if we keep turning out our local state office holders. We don't do this "term out" after so many years on the Federal level of offices , and I am unclear how prevalent that policy is on the local school board ,city, county level.

That is just my observation from the local level. I am just a pathetic fisher person for trout, steelhead and salmon, and anything else that comes along. When I say fisher person, I mean that I fish and hope to catch. Lots of fishing, little catching. I love every minute of fishing, and have never regretted those hours doing the "last cast"

Regards, Gene

[Troutstalker55B]

Yesterday, while I was fishing the lower Yuba, a thief cut off and stole the catalytic converter from my Prius parked under the Parks Bar Bridge. I read that this kind of theft is quite common. So if you are a Prius or hybrid owner, you might want to invest in a theft-deterrent metal plate. (That is what I'm going to do.) One article said thieves go after catalytic converters on hybrids because the precious metals in them are less degraded and fetch higher prices.
Driving home in a super-loud car, I felt like a boom car driver.:)
Ken

On March 1st my Ford F-250 was stolen for a 2nd time from the north side of the Hwy 20 bridge while on a guide trip. The theft happened between 2 and 4pm. I actually laughed when I realized my truck was gone. CHP found it in Marysville 2 days later totally stripped. Probably the same thieves that took your catalytic converter. CHP also informed me it was the first vehicle stolen from the north side of the bridge, as most of the thefts are on the south side.

Oh well, it's just a truck and I've moved on. - J.

[Ken Kondo]

Sorry to hear that, Jon. I remember the first time your truck was stolen.

Here is an update to the catalytic converter loss.
I tried to have another one installed but the insurance company decided to call it a total loss and is taking my fishing car away. They don’t want to keep insuring a 2005 Prius with 230K miles on it any more. I will have to find another car with the settlement. And I will have to change where and how I fish (I don’t necessarily mean the way I cast although that can certainly use some improvements).

Ken

[Troutstalker55B]

Sorry to hear that, Jon. I remember the first time your truck was stolen.

Here is an update to the catalytic converter loss.
I tried to have another one installed but the insurance company decided to call it a total loss and is taking my fishing car away. They don’t want to keep insuring a 2005 Prius with 230K miles on it any more. I will have to find another car with the settlement. And I will have to change where and how I fish (I don’t necessarily mean the way I cast although that can certainly use some improvements).

Ken

It's all good now! My truck was totaled as well, and with the insurance payback I was able to get into a 2020 TRD Tacoma Sport. You may want to reach out to Jana at Enterprise Car Sales in Roseville, she got the truck I've always wanted at a great price and incredibly low mileage.

Sorry for your situation, it sucks, but the trout will still be there waiting for you! - J.

[Rossflyguy]

I'm sorry, but I must challenge the fact that we have "career politicians" at this point in our state government.

Contrary, we have CAREER LOBBYISTS (SP) who take control of the newly elected "pol"and explain to him/her how things work.
Then when our new elected "pol" is termed out, we elect someone else, NEW. to the job. And so it goes.

How else are we to build up expertise, and I mean expertise in government if we keep turning out our local state office holders. We don't do this "term out" after so many years on the Federal level of offices , and I am unclear how prevalent that policy is on the local school board ,city, county level.

That is just my observation from the local level. I am just a pathetic fisher person for trout, steelhead and salmon, and anything else that comes along. When I say fisher person, I mean that I fish and hope to catch. Lots of fishing, little catching. I love every minute of fishing, and have never regretted those hours doing the "last cast"

Regards, Gene

Sorry but career politicians don’t “term” out as you say. They just find another spot they get appointed or elected to and keep making horrible choices. If politicians truly termed out the corruption in our government would be substantially less I would assume.

[tcorfey]

Those locks on the Catalytic Converters certainly help, we lost two in the past year but none since we added the locks (knock on wood).

I really envy you guys living in the rural areas of CA. Down here in the Bay Area cities it is a different story. In Oakland they are averaging between 500-600 reported crimes per week with assault being the leading crime. Oakland alone has over 40 murder\homocides this year so far after the first 100 days, so pretty much one every other day. They weirdest thing is the people still wanting to defund the Police amid these huge crime statistics. I do really miss not being able to fish some places in CA because of car break-ins, I won't fish the lower American, Lower Yuba, Putah, and a few other areas unless someone else drives. It is really a shame but our politicians and many very vocal people don't really don't seem to really care about it. I love getting away from the cities and enjoying the mountains and rivers. But I still feel the need to lock or hide everything in my truck.

[mogaru]

"I'm sorry, but I must challenge the fact that we have "career politicians" at this point in our state government".


I just going to give one example : President Joe Biden close to 50 years in politics and like him there are plenty of them. With state flavor Pelosi, Feinstein, Newsom and many others.






I'm sorry, but I must challenge the fact that we have "career politicians" at this point in our state government.

Contrary, we have CAREER LOBBYISTS (SP) who take control of the newly elected "pol"and explain to him/her how things work.
Then when our new elected "pol" is termed out, we elect someone else, NEW. to the job. And so it goes.

How else are we to build up expertise, and I mean expertise in government if we keep turning out our local state office holders. We don't do this "term out" after so many years on the Federal level of offices , and I am unclear how prevalent that policy is on the local school board ,city, county level.

That is just my observation from the local level. I am just a pathetic fisher person for trout, steelhead and salmon, and anything else that comes along. When I say fisher person, I mean that I fish and hope to catch. Lots of fishing, little catching. I love every minute of fishing, and have never regretted those hours doing the "last cast"

Regards, Gene

[TahoeJeff]

Don't worry California, you'll be just fine:
Caitlyn Jenner for Governor!

http://caitlynjenner.com/

[Mark Kranhold]

RALMFAO :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Don't worry California, you'll be just fine:
Caitlyn Jenner for Governor!

http://caitlynjenner.com/

[Bob Loblaw]

"I'm sorry, but I must challenge the fact that we have "career politicians" at this point in our state government".


I just going to give one example : President Joe Biden close to 50 years in politics and like him there are plenty of them. With state flavor Pelosi, Feinstein, Newsom and many others.

I've worked in politics my whole career, and like any other profession there are people who are good at it and people who suck at it. What makes it more challenging than most endeavors is that while it is complex and challenging, people who don't understand it like to dumb it down and think that their big "idea" and big mouth are sufficient qualifications to be elected to something.

Like anything else that's worthwhile it requires work, study, experience, and dedication. Go get elected and take your big idea to the state legislature and you will find that there are 100 others who have ideas and agendas, just as big as yours, but the people who are successful, who get things done, are the ones who have learned the craft and understand the issues intimately, who can build alliances, and trust among their colleagues.

People who charge in screaming the system stinks, promising to screw everyone and kick the table over rarely if ever succeed.

Politics is a career and a profession and people who dedicate themselves to it be they left or right, red or blue, R or D, and get good at it deserve to be reelected. For example, it takes decades to understand the US tax code and if we put 4 year term limits on Congress, the only people in the building who would understand how it works are the lobbyists. Same for the school funding mechanism in California, Prop 98. Do you want lobbyists running our country?

Our State legislature functioned much better before term limits were introduced. Today legislators are happy to pass laws or taxes knowing that when they take effect, they will be out of office and it will be someone else's problem. We live in an era of shortsighted, instant gratification, politics and its not healthy.

For those deriding the likes of Joe Biden or others who have spent 50 years in public service, you should know they would make 10X on the outside lobbying for special interests. They choose not to do so because they have ideals that they value more than money.

There's an old lobbyist joke. A retired Marine Corps General signs up as a lobbyist for a firm that represents defense contractors. First week on the job and Boeing calls him and says they need to talk to the Secretary of Defense because the contract for the new Navy fighter is coming up for bid. the General says "sure, that will cost you $100,000." "WHAT???" "$100,000 for a five minute phone call????" says the Boeing CEO. "You're not paying for the 5 minutes, you're paying for the 30 years I spent in the Corps that ensures that the Secretary will answer the call." This is how DC works and the people who stay on the inside rather than cash in on the outside should be commended not derided.

2 cents.

[PV_Premier]

Like anything else that's worthwhile it requires work, study, experience, and dedication. Go get elected and take your big idea to the state legislature and you will find that there are 100 others who have ideas and agendas, just as big as yours, but the people who are successful, who get things done, are the ones who have learned the craft and understand the issues intimately, who can build alliances, and trust among their colleagues.

People who charge in screaming the system stinks, promising to screw everyone and kick the table over rarely if ever succeed.

Was Donald Trump then the exception to the rule? In terms of changing the direction of a country and unifying one side of the aisle, he's arguably one of the most successful "politicians" ever. Doesn't change the fact that he was a terrible president and a general POS person, but he was and continues to be a politically successful flamethrower...at least in his own party.

[Bob Loblaw]

Was Donald Trump then the exception to the rule? In terms of changing the direction of a country and unifying one side of the aisle, he's arguably one of the most successful "politicians" ever. Doesn't change the fact that he was a terrible president and a general POS person, but he was and continues to be a politically successful flamethrower...at least in his own party.

You can fool all of the people some of the time and Trump did that, but history will not be kind to him. I would not agree on him being a successful politician. He won one election and then proceeded to lose the House and the Senate and then the White House for his party. He passed one consequential bill, tax cuts, through reconciliation, and thats it.

[mogaru]

[QUOTE=Bob Loblaw;202940

For those deriding the likes of Joe Biden or others who have spent 50 years in public service, you should know they would make 10X on the outside lobbying for special interests. They choose not to do so because they have ideals that they value more than money.

Find out how much Biden, Pelosi, Feinstein or Newsom were worth when they started and how much are they worth now with just a politician salary or how much money their spouses made knowing the right info or signing the right contracts. Don't be mistaken, that's why the are in politics. If they were lobbying, which by the way, is were some politicians end up after loosing elections, they would have to work for a living.

[Bob Loblaw]

[QUOTE=Bob Loblaw;202940

For those deriding the likes of Joe Biden or others who have spent 50 years in public service, you should know they would make 10X on the outside lobbying for special interests. They choose not to do so because they have ideals that they value more than money.

Find out how much Biden, Pelosi, Feinstein or Newsom were worth when they started and how much are they worth now with just a politician salary or how much money their spouses made knowing the right info or signing the right contracts. Don't be mistaken, that's why the are in politics. If they were lobbying, which by the way, is were some politicians end up after loosing elections, they would have to work for a living.

Pelosi Feinstein and Newsom were all independently wealthy before entering politics.

Its understandable that Americans have a cynical attitude about people who serve in public office, its fed 24/7 in the media. "they are all grifters" but thats just not true. I don't expect to change your mind, but I know it not to be the case.