Truckee

[Jeff F]

After being humbled yet again this weekend, in both CA and NV, I think it would be interesting to hear thoughts on why these fish, with so much cold water, so many bugs and baitfish, and so much fishy water, are so damn befuddling.

Not whining, cuz we had a great time as always, nor looking for tips, fishing spots or flies. Just curious on some observations about why these particular fish are what they are.

[Rossflyguy]

After being humbled yet again this weekend, in both CA and NV, i think it would be interesting to hear thoughts on why these fish, with so much cold water, so many bugs and baitfish, and so much fishy water, are so damn befuddling.

Not whining, cuz we had a great time as always, nor looking for tips, fishing spots or flies. Just curious on some observations about why these particular fish are what they are.

That’s why they call it 'fishing' and not 'catching'.

[Jeff F]

Ya I figured that was coming. Just trying to have a conversation about what makes the Truckee so different than other rivers. So nevermind. Bill please delete this post.

[McFish]

I too am curious about why they are harder. I can get platitudes anywhere. i suspect it is mostly educated fish. I have a private pond I get to fish regularly; it's loaded with bass. After a winter where they don't see anyone, the fish bite great. I'm talking Feb/March,not April/May. By June they totally ignore whatever they liked earlier. And it's not just that they are located differently or focused on a different pattern or depth. They learn. I can switch to poppers and be good for a week; then they want something else. Even in Sept/Oct when they should turn on again, they are still wary of what I caught them on earlier. And I represent 75% of the total fishing pressure. On the Truckee; the pressure has tobe about 100 times as much.

[JayDubP]

Ya i figured that was coming. Just trying to have a conversation about what makes the Truckee so different than other rivers. So nevermind. Bill please delete this post.

JEFF- your point is valid. There seem to be many more posts about having an "OK" day of the Truckee or being skunked that there are posts on spectacular results.

Jim

[mogaru]

The Truckee gets a lot of fishing pressure, specially in the last few years. I think part of the success is locating the feeding fish which varies depending the time of the year and water temperature. Some techniques (euro nymphing) seem to be more successful than others. Look for sections of the river that don't get as much pressure because it involves more walking or difficult access. Fly patterns, size are the other part of the equations. Learning a river well takes time, perseverance, and determination but the rewards are worthy. Be willing to move location frequently and change fly patterns until you find the ones that work. Don't fall into a fishing routine. Location and fish diets change frequently.Get local advise from fishing guides, they have all the knowledge and secrets. I hope all of this helps you in your next fishing adventure.

[bigfly]

Haven't posted for a while......
Jeff, I wanted to respond because you deserve more than, "that's fishin..."
Most fishers that say that kind of thing depend on fishing luck......I don't think luck has anything to do with fishing.
Getting to fish on the T is a study in frustration. A good start is asking your question.
I started watching other fishers......for 30 years....
Many, if not all fishers, fish the way they do on their home waters. Why we think we can get away with that, I do not know.
Normal human behavior probably.
This was the worst year for pressure I have seen. It started in Feb. when the resorts closed. The first wave was locals, the second wave all the refugees from the bay area. The third wave, summer time vacationers.
Many locals actually know how to fish here, so they stung a bunch of fish early on.
Most people think fish are dumb, those folks have an especially hard time here.
Once you see how poorly we all fish, you can embrace change.
I have rules to fish, taught to me by the T......
Rule #1. Don't let them know you are coming. Most folks walk around like fish can't see.....I have seen fish spook at 40 yards..be sneaky. Wave your rod around a bunch, and it's a ghosttown...
#2. Fish on the fishes schedule not yours.
Highnoon is good in winter, but not in summer. Blue skies are harder than clouds.
#3. Fish what's on the menu...forget your "lucky fly". Get a bug seine and use it.
Remember the fish have seen all the flies sold locally.....
#3. Get a perfect drift...the 1st try.
Two hundred shitty drifts don't help your odds. Fish less to catch more.
#4. If done correctly, fish will bite, so don't be surprised and have a plan!
#5. Walk a ways from the car....
#6. Deliver the pizza....give them what they want, when, and where, they want it.
We nymph mostly, but have a dry set-up always at the ready..but, I let them tell me which approach is best.
I never just walk water thinking I know...
I go see.
#7. More weight......
#8. Longer leader....
#9. Different equitment....
#10. Learn to fish bigger flows...

I could go on....but if anyone needs help to raise their game, give a shout.
Don't fish like the other guy is a good start
to learning the Tuffy. The fish are here when you are ready. And, they know you're coming.....

Advice edit....don't listen to those who give you tips, who don't actually hook up here. They ARE that other guy.
Guys that can hook-up at will, are the ones to draft on......

Jim

[John Sv]

I don't think the Truckee fish are any wiser per se or necessarily pickier. Most of the guys I know that do well- it seems like it is two statistics: Time on the water and weight. Re time on the water- that's not intended to be flip. The hatches that move the river's fish around or pique their curiousity are usually sparse, fleeting and a right place, right time thing. Re the weight, I think the difference between the people that get decent success is that with the tricky currents and wired slots, they get their flies to the fish more effectively. Lastly a fish biologist guy I know, recently retired from CA DFW , also told me the Truckee is a tough existence for fish and there just isn't a ton of biomass down there. Seems like a good day on the Truckee vs, say the Yellowstone is 4 fish vs 25...
My $.02 as a guy that lives near the river but doesn't fish it that much but has some pals that do!

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Ya I figured that was coming. Just trying to have a conversation about what makes the Truckee so different than other rivers. So nevermind. Bill please delete this post.

Jeff, I fished the Truckee river off and on for almost 50 years, that said I never got very good at it either.

Over 50 years in the tackle business I talked with thousands about the Truckee river too.

Some who will admit it say it is not an easy river to be successful on.


Techniques have improved in the last decade or two with "right angle indicator nymphing" and improved streamer techniques.


When I started fishing it most used attractor dry flies, classic wet flies and classic old streamers because 50 years ago there were very

few nymphs to buy.




I think the problem with the Truckee River is the fact that there is way too much food in there.

Crayfish, minnow/small fish, aquatic insects, terrestrials, mice, frogs......?

[Jeff F]

That's what i was getting at. Thanks to all. Can't tell you how many times we've tried to figure out these fish over beers in Reno or on the drive home.

I dig Jim's comment on making the 1st drift count. Great advice

[bigfly]

Jeff.....
I am the president of the Universal fisherman's assoc.
Which means, if I don't watch out, I will fish just like the other guy.
I've found in over 20 years guiding on the T...that a first drift fish is not only possible, it's even probable.....
I've lost track the number of demo drifts for a client that has turned a fish. It happened so often, I just started planning on it.
After that first drift, we often find a bunch of follow-up drifts garnered not a single look. I will also suggest a reach cast to increase the quality of said drift. That elbow down "dry fly" mend is the worst possible mend. You move the fly when mending, and the fish here know what that means. Lift your line off the water when mending....DON'T MOVE THAT FLY!
Another guide up here refers to the T as the Pebble beach of rivers. I agree.
If ya fish poorly here, you get poor results.
I can even get a client into a one drift fish, if they practice good cast and drift skills.
Had a guy out the other day...it took about five or six casts every try on new water.
The outcome was..."no fish in the river.
Nobody wants to think they fish poorly, so we do not want to even consider it.
I hold up my right hand and say...
" Hi, I'm Jim I'm a universal fisherman. "
I believe you have to admit you have a problem, to get better.
Mediocrity is easily attainible, excellence is not......

Jim

[Jeff F]

Well said, Jim. I think I get complacent because I'm used to fishing rivers with, shall we say, mentally challenged fish.

Thanks for your posts.

~Jeff

[bigfly]

And that is why I'm still here....
Easy fish scratch your itch, but they don't help your game.
I want to work out with fish that have some game.
I say, who would Superman be, without a nemesis? Just a putz in tights.

Jim

[John Sv]

"Easy fish scratch your itch, but they don't help your game.
I say, who would Superman be, without a nemesis? Just a putz in tights."

I have come to expect the goods from you Jim but these two lines exceed expectations! Top shelf writing there!
JS

[yubaman]

Jim,

Great to see you post!!! I was up fishing with a buddy on the T this weekend, and telling him how much I missed your posts. We fished Nevada and California with sketchy results. I find myself making many of these mistakes . . . I lose my patience quicker on slower days as I get older. I am way to careless marching around on the river these days. I have probably cleared out 2/3 of the holes before my first cast when I am not paying enough attention to minimizing my presence. It does allow me to get to one of the cold beers I have carried in my pack much quicker though when the catching is slow . . . there is a reward!

I am going to have to brush up the stealthy approach on my next trip up.

Great to see your posts. I always value your information and insight. I owe you a Torpedo IPA someday.


Bob

[Ralph]

Haven't posted for a while......
Jeff, I wanted to respond because you deserve more than, "that's fishin..."
Most fishers that say that kind of thing depend on fishing luck......I don't think luck has anything to do with fishing.
Getting to fish on the T is a study in frustration. A good start is asking your question.
I started watching other fishers......for 30 years....
Many, if not all fishers, fish the way they do on their home waters. Why we think we can get away with that, I do not know.
Normal human behavior probably.
This was the worst year for pressure I have seen. It started in Feb. when the resorts closed. The first wave was locals, the second wave all the refugees from the bay area. The third wave, summer time vacationers.
Many locals actually know how to fish here, so they stung a bunch of fish early on.
Most people think fish are dumb, those folks have an especially hard time here.
Once you see how poorly we all fish, you can embrace change.
I have rules to fish, taught to me by the T......
Rule #1. Don't let them know you are coming. Most folks walk around like fish can't see.....I have seen fish spook at 40 yards..be sneaky. Wave your rod around a bunch, and it's a ghosttown...
#2. Fish on the fishes schedule not yours.
Highnoon is good in winter, but not in summer. Blue skies are harder than clouds.
#3. Fish what's on the menu...forget your "lucky fly". Get a bug seine and use it.
Remember the fish have seen all the flies sold locally.....
#3. Get a perfect drift...the 1st try.
Two hundred shitty drifts don't help your odds. Fish less to catch more.
#4. If done correctly, fish will bite, so don't be surprised and have a plan!
#5. Walk a ways from the car....
#6. Deliver the pizza....give them what they want, when, and where, they want it.
We nymph mostly, but have a dry set-up always at the ready..but, I let them tell me which approach is best.
I never just walk water thinking I know...
I go see.
#7. More weight......
#8. Longer leader....
#9. Different equitment....
#10. Learn to fish bigger flows...

I could go on....but if anyone needs help to raise their game, give a shout.
Don't fish like the other guy is a good start
to learning the Tuffy. The fish are here when you are ready. And, they know you're coming.....

Advice edit....don't listen to those who give you tips, who don't actually hook up here. They ARE that other guy.
Guys that can hook-up at will, are the ones to draft on......

Jim

Jim pretty much says it all. One note though, the Truckee has always been tough. It was tough in the 70's and early 80's when there might be two people between Truckee and state line - on a busy day. Cal Bird said it was just as tough before my time in the 50's and 60's. I fished with Cal on days when we both got spanked. I've guided many of the county's top notch anglers, and to a person, they said the Truckee humbled them. You have to fish the Truckee on its own terms. Not many tips, tricks or shortcuts here. You have to hunt these fish, especially the big guys. You can't just walk up and shotgun the water with your $900.00 fishing pole and have a fish leap into your $200.00 net. You have to earn them. Think big, think stealth, think precision. You might even break stuff. Save the bling for Hot Creek.

[JasonB]

Jeff, thanks for starting this thread. It’s turned into a good one, with some very valuable info for anyone looking to have a little more success on the Truckee (or in general). Your original post squares up well with my own experiences there; some very good days here and there, but lots of humble pie served up regularly. I had what I now know was a fair bit of beginners luck there, thanks largely to a lot of help from guys like Jim (Bigfly). Somewhere along the way, I think I started feeling like I had grown to a higher level and should therefore be able to expect better numbers ... and be able to achieve them on terms, fishing the ways I enjoyed most. That’s when I really got humbled more and more. It’s been a while since I’ve fished the Truckee, between the worst years of the drought and being eager to explore other waters and other fishes, etc. I think the last few times I was there I was quite enamored with soft hackle flies and was in the early stages of my addiction to swinging flies; I had decided to dedicate myself to just swinging soft hackles each of those trips ... ended up completely blanked all three times. I’m not complaining. I still enjoyed the process and learned a lot more despite coming home with little “success” to show for my efforts more often than I’d have liked.

I really can’t begin to contribute advice given the quality of Jim and Ralph’s comments, other than perhaps in advising a newcomer to the Truckee to adjust expectations and redefine how they measure “success”. I was quite happy and satisfied with ANY action when I was there mostly focused on just developing my game; the times I fished there feeling like I somehow knew what I was doing and deserved a little more action were the ones I went home most humbled.
JB

[EricO]

I was with Jeff this weekend and was humbled by one thing in particular. There was a guy across the river from
us fishing Tenkara (which surprised me). The dude was a machine! He took at least four fish (12-14" I'm guessing) in a
50 yard stretch.

I said to Jeff...it's two things, his tippet size is smaller or he has a great pattern. But thinking about it after Jim's post, I'd say it's probably my stealth. Just bumbling up to a run, stripping out line and hoping for a grab when every decent fish is probably long gone. That said, I did catch 4 fish, but all were 10" inches and under. Couple on an orange soft hackle swung with no weight. Had one decent grab on a sculpin pattern but didn't hook up. This was the CA side. On the NV side, the water looked so sweet and didn't get one bump.

Thanks for all the posts, it gives me alot to think about. One thing, it sure is nice to hit Revision Brewing on the way back from
the Nevada side. Love their beers and the chill atmosphere in the warehouse.

Eric O

[John Sv]

That could have been Brian Slusser from 4 Seasons Fly Fishing. He has been Tenkara-ing and I think guiding clients with Tenkara. I bring that up because he is not your average Truckee River fisherman.

[EricO]

That could have been Brian Slusser from 4 Seasons Fly Fishing. He has been Tenkara-ing and I think guiding clients with Tenkara. I bring that up because he is not your average Truckee River fisherman.

Ah interesting John. It was impressive watching him.

Eric

[Jeff F]

Ok, one last question i think everyone wants to know....
There is a fish in every primo run where there absolutely has to be a fish, right?
How many times have you said "theres gotta be a fish in there"
Such an enigma

[John Sv]

Ah interesting John. It was impressive watching him.

Eric

Wasn't Brian. He just told me he is up on the Klamath right now

[yubaman]

Eric,

Besides Revision, you have to stop at the Sasquatch in Verdi if you are fishing in Nevada. it is a great start to the ride home, and lots of good water in the near vicinity. Big juicy burgers and chicken wings as well.


Bob

[Jcolin]

Really good thread and hear what youre saying jeff. The truckee was the river my dad would usually take my brother and i fishing when we were kids, usually in the fall, still love fishing it but moreso in the spring now. Much more experienced people have offered better insight than i can but the only things i would add is that i generally do way better in the spring fishing it in high flows, in terms of numbers, but especially size of fish and also seems like less fishing pressure than fall. This year with covid seemed like more dudes than ive ever seen. I relate to your post because some days its great and others its really tough, despite good weather patterns etc.

[EricO]

Eric,

Besides Revision, you have to stop at the Sasquatch in Verdi if you are fishing in Nevada. it is a great start to the ride home, and lots of good water in the near vicinity. Big juicy burgers and chicken wings as well.


Bob

Thanks Bob, I'll put it on the list!

Eric

[Ralph]

Ok, one last question i think everyone wants to know....
There is a fish in every primo run where there absolutely has to be a fish, right?
How many times have you said "theres gotta be a fish in there"
Such an enigma

Jeff- If you REALLY want some self flagellation, put on a mask and snorkel. There are SO MANY fish in the river and SO FEW that you catch, you'll never leave the Truckee again without felling shitty for being such an inconsequential angler. There are scads of fish in even what we pass off as "not fishy" water. I cannot stress enough how important swimming with, and quietly observing, the fishes can be. No amount of fishing time will ever come close. I live to swim and observe, among many reasons, to become a better fly fisher. How many people have I seen doing likewise in the past 65 years? None. Zero.

[bonish]

Jeff- If you REALLY want some self flagellation, put on a mask and snorkel. There are SO MANY fish in the river and SO FEW that you catch, you'll never leave the Truckee again without felling shitty for being such an inconsequential angler. There are scads of fish in even what we pass off as "not fishy" water. I cannot stress enough how important swimming with, and quietly observing, the fishes can be. No amount of fishing time will ever come close. I live to swim and observe, among many reasons, to become a better fly fisher. How many people have I seen doing likewise in the past 65 years? None. Zero.

I know a few who do. Probably helps explain why they were such successful anglers and high-demand guides.

[bigfly]

Ralph told me 28 years ago to " swim it".
I thought it was the river.
I told Ralph, "there are no fish in the river.
We say this whenever we aren't hooking fish...it's an inside joke.
It means....we should fish better.
Said many times..I would not be fishing here, let alone guiding, if it wasn't for his coaching.
I try to coach the same way every day.
Reality fishing......
They are here if you want them, and are willing to raise your game....not just fish the same as usual...
Thanks Ralph!

Thanks for the props...tight lines...

Jim

[Ralph]

Ralph told me 28 years ago to " swim it".
I thought it was the river.
I told Ralph, "there are no fish in the river.
We say this whenever we aren't hooking fish...it's an inside joke.
It means....we should fish better.
Said many times..I would not be fishing here, let alone guiding, if it wasn't for his coaching.
I try to coach the same way every day.
Reality fishing......
They are here if you want them, and are willing to raise your game....not just fish the same as usual...
Thanks Ralph!

Thanks for the props...tight lines...

Jim
Thanks Jim-
You are one of the cold water swimmers indeed. And it shows in the fish you catch and the clients you keep. If there were fishing guide trading cards like there are baseball trading cards, I'd bank a few dozen with your mug on them.

[yubaman]

I think I am afraid to see how many fish are in runs that I fish . . . see how many fish I have drifted over countless times. That might cause me to give up fishing entirely! I have had some great days on the T, and gotten my ass kicked many more times. I find if I have had a multi-day beating on the Truckee, that the NF Yuba lifts my confidence once again and reminds me that I can fish a little. Usually a couple of beers in the evening assists me with that as well.

This thread will remind me to stop marching all along the river banks, and at least attempt to be somewhat stealthy when I am fishing.

[bigfly]

LOL!
Ralph, you crack me up. Fishing oddball cards...west coast league.
I actually swam the T last week. Wasn't to see fish though! Had a small kid wader lose a sz 7 boot (managed to get the kid back...) He suggested I might purchase just one boot to replace it......
Anyway, I swam a tree bend hole and a stretch below it. No boot. But, I did find a bathtub I didn't know was there. I had hooked up there before, but didn't know why..? Swim it!
Anyone find a sz7 boot let me know!!!

Yubaman, to me, the T tests fishers.
It's the guys who won't quit trying that find fish here. I used to fish the LT to find relief or tease backcountry fish.
I stopped running away....and got better.
No secret to it......
And, it's true what I was told 30 years ago when I first fished the T. If you can fish well here, you can fish well anywhere.


Jim

[ARichcrook]

I’ve got a Bigfly rookie card in my collection!��
Thanks to both Jim and Ralph for the education.

[bigfly]

Rich!
Hang on to that one....gotta be worth a cup of coffee at least.
Let's fish!!

Jim

[yubaman]

Yep, I agree Jim. It's like any sport . . . you don't push or challenge yourself, you don't get better. The T is probably the most difficult river I can think of for sure, at least for the real fish in the river. It will tease you some days with a number of small fish. Generally, I like to throw streamers on the Truckee. Big, articulated Kelly Galloup streamers. I have had some heart stopping chases and landed a few very nice fish, but many days of bits of action and a sore arm at the end of the day.

It's ironic, we'll go fish the Big Hole, the Mo, the Blackfoot, Rock Creek and have great days on streamers, and all day long. Come home, go running back to the Truckee, thinking we have unlocked the Holy Grail back there, and the T invariably throws some reality right back at us. The hunt is part of what keeps us on the river. It has so many similarities to golf.

I'll be back out there soon enough.

[bigfly]

When I guided in Idaho a few years ago,
I found out why everyone goes to the Henry's fork...it was easy to find fish after fishing the T. I was homesick for abuse.
It was like a put put golf coarse, compared to Pebble beach.
Give shout when you do come up.....Been known to huck a streamer too.

Jim

[JayDubP]

Thanks Bob, I'll put it on the list!

Eric

I second recommendation for Sasquatch Inn. Locals swear by the fish and chips and the salmon sandwich.

Jm