American River

[Larry S]

Wow! What happened to the American River thread?
Certainly didn't think it was that out of control to be
deleted. That's what you find on Blanton's site.
Is this what we can expect on. Kiene?
Best to all,
Larry S
Sun Diego

[winxp_man]

Larry you’re right! I thought it was pretty darn civil compared to other topics that have been discussed. -_-

[Katz]

Fished high in the river. A little crowded but not as bad as a week ago. Landed this one and lost a big colored up buck. K

[Larry S]

Katz,
Sweet!

My apologies to Bill Kiene! It's his board and is in the driver's seat.
Best to all,
Larry S
Sun Diego

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Looks like a wild hen by the looks of the tail......


Larry & WinXP, thanks for your wonderful support of the forum but I just can't ever let a political thing take off here.

It would end the forum after 26 years............


We don't talk about "politics or religion"......actually no body cares much about religion any more.

[EricO]

Fished high in the river. A little crowded but not as bad as a week ago. Landed this one and lost a big colored up buck. K

Hey nice rod Katz. I have the same one, but 12' 5wt. Glad you got into some, that gives me some hope!!

EricO

[winxp_man]

Looks like a wild hen by the looks of the tail......


Larry & WinXP, thanks for your wonderful support of the forum but I just can't ever let a political thing take off here.

It would end the forum after 26 years............


We don't talk about "politics or religion"......actually no body cares much about religion any more.


I see where you are coming from Bill. Fact is though if one talks conservancy here in CA or any place for the most part, gets involved in politics. It’s just how things are tied up. But like Larry said we have to respect your decision it’s not our forum. ;)

[Troutsource]

I landed an 18" hatchery fish Saturday afternoon mid-river swinging a black and white Beldar bugger. It was my third cast of the day. Got him in a knee-deep riffle about 20 feet from the shore. My biggest fish since I resumed fishing the A in August. And the only time I didn't get on the river before sunrise.

I didn't see the offending post(s) but I think it's a good idea to keep politics off of here.

[mogaru]

Unfortunately, it's impossible to talk about water without going into politics........Fished the A for a couple of hours ......steelhead have nothing to fear from me.

[JasonB]

Nice to see and hear some folks are finding some steelhead on the American!

Thanks Bill for trying to keep the forum as clean as possible. For the most part, I think you do a far better job than most other online forums these days. I agree with comments that it can be difficult to separate out politics from important issues pertaining to our healthy fisheries, but there does come a point where things can quickly spiral into pointless negativity. Those kinds of discussions would likely be positive ones if done face to face, over a beer or around a campfire. Online, sadly, things are different. The random political “jabs” that pop up from time to time, for instance, can really sour the mood of the board. I apologize for my part in making things any more political in the previous thread.
Tight lines to all!
JB

[Mark Kranhold]

Not sure what I missed on the old thread? Sorry if I offended anyone one but my only comment was harmless, on how ridiculous this state has become with laws, like trying to ban gas powered lawn equipment l! Must of missed some good arguments, sorry Bill!

[EricO]

Since a few people have got into some fish, I figure I'd give it another go. Was out Sunday morning in a few spots and had the runs all to myself. Nice walking speed water..I was hopeful. But alas, no bumps, hits or takes. Hopefully this rain brings in some pods of fish. The air temperature was sure nice and balmy due to the cloud cover.

EricO

[Smitty Fish]

It’s definitely been a slow year. I’m going out tomorrow . Maybe I’ll get a grab! Lol

[mogaru]

The slowest year since I started fishing the American in the early 90's. Fished yesterday for a few hours on different locations for nothing. Spoke to a gear guy who saw early in the day a fishing guide with a customer hooked a fish in the lower sailor bar/ upper sunrise. Last year by this time I already hooked three fish.......this year looks really bad.

[Smitty Fish]

I’d like to see them release some water. That might bring in some more fish. Doesn’t look like that’s going to happen any time soon.

[mogaru]

Current water flows are at 2000 cfs. It seems to me fair but it could be better. Remember, that some years back we were fishing with less water and there were fish in the system. What I noticed is that the river's bed has filled up substantially and has become really shallow ........I guess all that gravel dumped up the river is making its way downstream. Upper sunrise channel has barely any flow at the top. Good luck to those salmon reds !!!!!

[Larry S]

Can't remember when I've seen such few (dismal) reports for winter steelhead. If I lived north of Sacramento,
I'd probably keep a lot of my catching info on the qt, but, we're not seeing any decent salmon or steelhead
reports. Is it that bad? Our San Diego surf fishing is experiencing the same. Is there a fishing shaman for hire out there?
Best to all,
Larry S
San Diego

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Winter Steelheaders are pretty tight lipped, especially with the power of the Internet.

[STEELIES/26c3]

Winter Steelheaders are pretty tight lipped, especially with the power of the Internet.

It's not about tight lips this year...

It's about dismal numbers of fish because the fishery is so grossly mismanaged by the agencies responsible for it.

Up until 2018, I'd tagged 75-100 adult steelies annually BEFORE January 1st and it usually got better between the opener and early March. This year, I have landed ONE ADULT since the first... and it's not just me; I've talked to 50 or so regulars who have fished the AR for 20-30+ years and some of whom are well known and respected guides and their experience/numbers this year are similar.

Of course, the lack of fish isn't entirely on CDFW as anything can happen (or not happen) in the ocean to take a chunk out of our escapement... but what I do know is that the quota for the Nimbus Hatchery has been slighted by 50% for the last two years. This is most unfortunate because water flows and temps have been more prime between 2016 and 2020 than they have been in the last 25 years prior.

At a time when the watershed offered conditions which would have optimized success of out-migrating smolts, CDFW denied that watershed 445,000.00 of the 870,000.00 it should have planted in March of 2018 and of 2019 collectively.

More fish should be raised and released into our river - which is not capable of hosting a self-sustaining population of natural-origin steelhead - but CDFW is instead cutting the HATCHERY-BASED fishery in half and pretending that gravel restoration is actually going to bring our fishery back.

Nimbus now has TWO FULL nurseries (fingerling-rearing facilities) and enough acreage and the capacity to double its smolt-rearing ponds (races) but they won't do it.

It seems to me they no longer care about providing opportunities for fishing and hunting in our state.

This saddens me :(

[Fishtopher]

Of course, the lack of fish isn't entirely on CDFW as anything can happen (or not happen) in the ocean to take a chunk out of our escapement... but what I do know is that the quota for the Nimbus Hatchery has been slighted by 50% for the last two years. This is most unfortunate because water flows and temps have been more prime between 2016 and 2020 than they have been in the last 25 years prior.

(

It's not just the American. The entire West Coast is having a down steelhead year. Along with the poorer than expected salmon runs throughout the West, its pretty obvious that the warmwater blob off the West Coast has negatively affected our salmonid populations.




More fish should be raised and released into our river - which is not capable of hosting a self-sustaining population of natural-origin steelhead - but CDFW is instead cutting the HATCHERY-BASED fishery in half and pretending that gravel restoration is actually going to bring our fishery back.

Nimbus now has TWO FULL nurseries (fingerling-rearing facilities) and enough acreage and the capacity to double its smolt-rearing ponds (races) but they won't do it.
(

Its not just as simple as releasing more hatchery fish into the river. Hatchery juveniles can have a significant impact on other salmonids both hatchery and wild. This can be a problem on systems with listed species such as Central Valley Steelhead on the American. I don't know if this is the reasoning for doing this on the American, but it is on other systems in CA. Here's a link to a student's Master thesis on the subject on the Trinity:
http://humboldt-dspace.calstate.edu/bitstream/handle/2148/449/sethnaman_thesis.pdf?sequence=3
As a result of this, the Trinity hatchery has greatly reduced its Steelhead production.

Unfortunately, hatchery impacts are much simpler to quantify than impacts due to water management. Again, the fish get the short end of the stick.

[mogaru]

The American and Feather river have had great salmon runs last year. Everybody was expecting the same with the steelhead run but so far it hasn't been the case.......we still have a couple of months left over, let's hope for the best.

[STEELIES/26c3]

It's not just the American. The entire West Coast is having a down steelhead year. Along with the poorer than expected salmon runs throughout the West, its pretty obvious that the warmwater blob off the West Coast has negatively affected our salmonid populations.



Its not just as simple as releasing more hatchery fish into the river. Hatchery juveniles can have a significant impact on other salmonids both hatchery and wild. This can be a problem on systems with listed species such as Central Valley Steelhead on the American. I don't know if this is the reasoning for doing this on the American, but it is on other systems in CA. Here's a link to a student's Master thesis on the subject on the Trinity:
http://humboldt-dspace.calstate.edu/bitstream/handle/2148/449/sethnaman_thesis.pdf?sequence=3
As a result of this, the Trinity hatchery has greatly reduced its Steelhead production.

Unfortunately, hatchery impacts are much simpler to quantify than impacts due to water management. Again, the fish get the short end of the stick.

Yes, I know of the complexities of population dynamics of salmonids on a river. I do know that adding more hatchery juveniles does not necessarily guarantee a greater, future return of adults but it sure has on Mokelumne River so I bet it would on the AR as well.

I also know that releasing greater numbers of hatchery steelhead can have a negative effect on wild populations both within a river system and outside of it due to straying. In fact, a USFWS biologist stated that as a concern when CDFW was considering replacing the Eel R. strain of steelhead (in the Lower American R.) with Coleman Hatchery steelhead. It was later determined that straying of the Coleman strain of mykiss would likely have no deleterious effect on other races of central valley steelhead. And besides, it's all a moot point because Coleman fish are a summer run and would never return to the AR at a time when their sexual maturity coincides with cold enough temperatures to ensure survival of their offspring anyhow.

There are no true wild salmon nor steelhead on the American River and even very few adults of natural origin return each year... so that is a moot point as well.

CDFW should at least meet (if not increase) its annual quota for salmon and steelhead smolt production. And by failing to do that - whether intentionally or otherwise and failure to make this information available to the public - is tantamount to lying to its 'stakeholders'.

It actually begs the question, "Is CDFW trying to systematically eliminate fishing and hunting?

FWIW... I am all for eliminating hatcheries and hatchery fish on watersheds in OR, WA and even CA whereby to do so would save/protect/enhance healthy populations of TRULY WILD salmon and steelhead.

Thanks for your input. Glad we could keep it civil this time :)

[STEELIES/26c3]

The American and Feather river have had great salmon runs last year. Everybody was expecting the same with the steelhead run but so far it hasn't been the case.......we still have a couple of months left over, let's hope for the best.

GREAT is a relative term...

The Feather did have a good return of kings and a lot of 2 year steelhead because a repair to the hatchery was made by some engineers to rectify a bad situation caused when the spillway failed in 2017. That repair actually reduced mortality by a large percentage because it removed even more sediments from the water intakes than the methods and equipment used prior to the spillway failure.

And I know this because I met the guy who worked on the project there as a contractor for CDFW at RALEYS lol... go figure.

Steelhead season the AR was pretty good but salmon returns were only 21,000. I wish we could see numbers one the American like the first 3 millennial years (164,000 in 2003) :)

[mogaru]

This is a good article which describes how recently the American was dewatered for 24 h and probably destroyed many of the salmon reds.

http://redgreenandblue.org/2020/01/14/bureau-reclamation-orders-salmon-killing-slashing-american-river-flows/

[STEELIES/26c3]

This is a good article which describes how recently the American was dewatered for 24 h and probably destroyed many of the salmon reds.

http://redgreenandblue.org/2020/01/14/bureau-reclamation-orders-salmon-killing-slashing-american-river-flows/

Yep my nickname for Department of Water resources is D W R = De Watered Regularly and I have fished most days before and after the drop so yep was aware. It wasn't just 24 hours either... It dropped from 2400 to 2000 to 1800 and is currently back at 2000. This can't be good for eggs, alevin or fry... but it is something BOR and DWR do on a regular basis.

[mogaru]

I've heard it plenty of times..........the enemy is always at home......although they always point with their fingers somewhere else, so you look far away from them.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

You can't go Steelheading once a year.....you have to go at least 6 times to get any odds going for you and pay your dues.

[mogaru]

That's is very true Bill. I usually go once or twice during the week, besides if you are a true "steelheader" we live for this time of the year. I'm thinking of the Russian or the Eel....or maybe the Garcia or Gualala.

[avidangler]

Mitigation hatcheries put in place to offset severe spawning habitat degradation that are not producing hatchery fish are an absolute travesty IMO. Where are these so called "wild" salmon and steelhead on the American spawning? Nimbus basin? I am all for the propagation of "native" salmonids. But without the habitat for them to spawn,you wither mitigate with hatcheries,or you have nothing. That's the reality of it. The Trinity has a couple major un-dammed tribs for spawning to take place. That said it lost all that upper habitat. That habitat will never come back. The reality. I am so hopeful that the Klamath dam removal project will help to restore that river. We will likely never get runs back to historical rivers anywhere. Water diversions and habitat degradation will only increase as the population does. Man I am getting sad now.

[Rossflyguy]

Mitigation hatcheries put in place to offset severe spawning habitat degradation that are not producing hatchery fish are an absolute travesty IMO. Where are these so called "wild" salmon and steelhead on the American spawning? Nimbus basin? I am all for the propagation of "native" salmonids. But without the habitat for them to spawn,you wither mitigate with hatcheries,or you have nothing. That's the reality of it. The Trinity has a couple major un-dammed tribs for spawning to take place. That said it lost all that upper habitat. That habitat will never come back. The reality. I am so hopeful that the Klamath dam removal project will help to restore that river. We will likely never get runs back to historical rivers anywhere. Water diversions and habitat degradation will only increase as the population does. Man I am getting sad now.

I’ve witnessed steelhead spawning on the American last weekend and they were no where near the basin. Salmon spawning throughout the American.

[STEELIES/26c3]

I’ve witnessed steelhead spawning on the American last weekend and they were no where near the basin. Salmon spawning throughout the American.

Yes there are salmon spawning in the river throughout. The problem is that the number of offspring those fish will produce is extremely minuscule and the amount of those which will make it to the ocean and back will be less than minuscule.

1-2 out of 5,000 Chinook eggs survives to return as an adult to its river of origin. We likely had a return of 10,000 salmon and perhaps 1,000 females (probably much less) will have successfully spawned in the river by the time the carcass count surveys are completed. 1,000-2,000 additional kings is not sustainable considering in 2003 we had 163,000 return to the Nimbus Hatchery alone...

As for steelhead... How many adult steelies have you caught over the years? and I don't mean smolts, young of year or 2-year residualized fish... I mean true adults 3-5 years in salt 28"-34".

Out of thousands of ADULT steelhead I have caught in the American River over the last 30 years, I can tell you I have caught only a few dozen with adipose fin intact (not counting Folsom and Natoma footballs which plunge over the spillway/s at Folsom/Nimbus.

What Avidangler said is spot-on.

Instead of trying to make the American River something it cannot possibly be, why not at least make it what it can be...

[STEELIES/26c3]

https://www.facebook.com/NorCalSportsmenAssociation/videos/597261731096904/

[avidangler]

Mitigation hatcheries are just that,to mitigate habitat loss. That was a selling point for damming up these rivers. So promises need to be kept IMO. If I were managing our fisheries I would plant ample fish in rivers where habitat loss was severely degraded or lost. This spreads angling pressure around,thus alleviating pressure on native fish stocks. I am no biologist but I am fairly informed on fisheries management. And all across the board on the west coast our fisheries managers are having to deal with bureaucrats and special interest groups,water diversions,infighting. It's a real mess.

[winxp_man]

You can't go Steelheading once a year.....you have to go at least 6 times to get any odds going for you and pay your dues.

When talking to people that go even more than this and still no fish you know there are some shenanigans going on! Fact is guides love to boast in the social media age. And not a peep even from them! It’s a fact at one point where we have to acknowledge there are not many returning period.

[winxp_man]

Mitigation hatcheries are just that,to mitigate habitat loss. That was a selling point for damming up these rivers. So promises need to be kept IMO. If I were managing our fisheries I would plant ample fish in rivers where habitat loss was severely degraded or lost. This spreads angling pressure around,thus alleviating pressure on native fish stocks. I am no biologist but I am fairly informed on fisheries management. And all across the board on the west coast our fisheries managers are having to deal with bureaucrats and special interest groups,water diversions,infighting. It's a real mess.


The math is simple when you cut damn near 95% of all spawning grounds for the American river and you want to argue, it’s not because of numbers released or bonk hatchery fish to save the wild ones...... One might just thing a person needs their head checked. Well put in your post! It’s like 1+1 basic simple math and people with “degrees” want to argue otherwise. Just sad really what it’s become. Just like up north they want better numbers but allow the slaughter of thousands of fish by gill nets. But we still need to save the salmon! Isn’t that the meaning of counter intuitive?!?

SMH!

[avidangler]

I was on a popular river in Northern California last week and the harbor seals were all the way up by the put in. We saw them in different spots on the entire drift. It was out of hand.

[Larry S]

avidangler,
A "popular" killing zone for seals/sea lions has been the estuary at Redwood Creek in Orick.
Have seen them as far upstream on the Smith near the state campground. A difficult situation
considering the Marine Mammal Protection Act versus endangered species like salmon and steelhead.
Best,
Larry S
Sun Diego

[avidangler]

avidangler,
A "popular" killing zone for seals/sea lions has been the estuary at Redwood Creek in Orick.
Have seen them as far upstream on the Smith near the state campground. A difficult situation
considering the Marine Mammal Protection Act versus endangered species like salmon and steelhead.
Best,
Larry S
Sun Diego

They are in every stream . Every single one .

[mogaru]

Any improvement on the 2020 steelhead run on the American?. It's been a couple of weeks since the last time I fished it and at that time there were very few fish in the system.

[Pvillarr]

Any improvement on the 2020 steelhead run on the American?. It's been a couple of weeks since the last time I fished it and at that time there were very few fish in the system.

I believe it is still the same, unfortunately.

[Troutsource]

Looks like flows dropped to 1800, and water temps are dropping more rapidly with these cold nights. I went last weekend and got skunked for the first time since I started regularly last August. I did see a few adults in the river, though. And tons of suckers hugging the bottom (one even jumped right in front of me - first time I've ever seen that).

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Here is an email reply from Justin Coupe, one of the young men who made the great movie, "Rivers of a Lost Coast".

https://tubitv.com/movies/189479/rivers_of_a_lost_coast?utm_source=google-feed&tracking=google-feed

_________________________________-


"Hi Bill, Hope you're doing well. I got a nice fish on the American yesterday. Several years ago I got a whitewater raft and have gotten pretty good in getting into some remote water with some big fish. Still having fun and still exploring.

Best,
Justin Coupe"

[Mark Kranhold]

Sounds like Justin found the needle in the haystack!

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

At 1,800 cfs the wading is fantastic and the fish might stop at some riffles around Watt and below?

[troutie]

Fished Sailor Bar to Rossmoor on Monday. Landed an 18", lost a smaller half pounder and a nice adult. Wow, that wind was something, kept blowing me upstream. Had to push my way downstream all day to make the takeout.

ShadiMaster Jeff, if you read this I sent you a private email.

Troutie

[troutie]

Hi Jeff, did you see my private email?

Troutie

[Troutsource]

Anyone know why flows were raised 200 CFS last weekend?

[STEELIES/26c3]

Anyone know why flows were raised 200 CFS last weekend?

I would like to think it was to help push out the 460,000 steelhead smolts that were planted at Sunrise Boat Launch Feb 20,21,22 but probably not...

[PV_Premier]

I would like to think it was to help push out the 460,000 steelhead smolts that were planted at Sunrise Boat Launch Feb 20,21,22 but probably not...

so you're saying don't go swing a buggy fly right now unless you're using a 2wt? haha

[Troutsource]

I thought I read that the smolts were released in the Sacramento River(?).

Funny story from the other weekend. I hit the A mid-river on that Saturday, eagerly baptizing my new rod and some new flies I tied the week prior. I got into an obscene amount of fish (one every 60 seconds) and became very enamored with my rod, my flies and my general skill level. I said to myself, "I never knew there were this many fish in the river in these riffly environments. I must be a real stud now! But it's strange that they're all hatchery fish and about the same size..." Then I encountered another guy who was also tearing them up. And then he informed me of the "stocking" that just occurred a few days earlier... Total ego deflation.

[Pvillarr]

I thought I read that the smolts were released in the Sacramento River(?).

Funny story from the other weekend. I hit the A mid-river on that Saturday, eagerly baptizing my new rod and some new flies I tied the week prior. I got into an obscene amount of fish (one every 60 seconds) and became very enamored with my rod, my flies and my general skill level. I said to myself, "I never knew there were this many fish in the river in these riffly environments. I must be a real stud now! But it's strange that they're all hatchery fish and about the same size..." Then I encountered another guy who was also tearing them up. And then he informed me of the "stocking" that just occurred a few days earlier... Total ego deflation.

I wish the American river had action like that without the stocking :/

[Pvillarr]

It does look like some of the conventional gear guys are currently getting them on the American River.