Smith question

[Jcolin]

Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. This year I'm hoping to fish the Smith river for the first time, have been meaning to make it up there for years now. I’m thinking about waiting until February to go as it seems like there'd be more fish in the system then. Just wondering what I should be looking for flow wise, i think I heard when the gauge is at like 10-12 feet it's good. Does that sound right? Any tips or insight would be greatly appreciated. Will be swinging flies. I normally use an 18’ intermediate OPST Commando Skagit head on a 12’6 #6 weight rod for my winter steelhead fishing but also have a 12’ #8 weight, wondering if I'd benefit from a longer Skagit head and bigger rod as it's a big river and the fish can be huge. Thanks

[Carl Blackledge]

Sir,

I don't know any Steelhead guys on the Smith river that catch Steelhead on flies consistently and on a regular basis, in fact I haven't heard of any Steelhead being caught on flies in the last 10 years or so. Lots of Steelhead do get caught on bait...my 2 cents

Carl Blackledge

[Jcolin]

Hi Carl, thanks for the response. Without a doubt, people still fly fish the Smith river, though I realize you may not. Do they catch them consistently and on a regular basis? I'm sure they don't. I don't on any river in general in the winter, I know I'm lucky to hook (not land) 3 winter steelhead a season swinging flies on the Russian river and Mendocino coastal rivers, and I'm on the water as much as possible during the winter, weather permitting, even if its only an hour before work. If I spend 3 days swinging flies on the South Fork Eel and I get a single legitimate grab that's a good trip. So to be clear, obviously a 3 day trip to the Smith would likely result in a skunk, as do most days for me swinging flies for winter steelhead.

[NCL]

Only fished the Smith once and the challenge seemed more to be finding water that was good to swing. There were 6 or 8 in our group and we never got any fish. It might be a good idea to go with a guide the first time just to learn a little about the river.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

20 to 50 years ago nobody guided Winter Steelhead with a fly rod in Northern California.

Mike at the Eureka Fly Shop told me the Smith river was too clear for fly fishing for most.

In the drought of the late 1970s people caught salmon and steelhead from small prams in the tide water of the Smith river.


Jcolin, your description of your winter steelheading was so right on the money.

Winter Steelheaders who swing flies is a small dedicated group serious anglers.



Spey Commando Mike McCune told me that winter Steelheading was one of the few ways to catch a big wild Steelhead on a swung fly.



In the past 20 years with the rise of two handed fly fishing we have a few guiding winter Steelhead on swung flies.

.

[pvsprme]

Rich Zellman (steelheadwater.com) and Jason Hartwick (Steelheadonthspey) guide the Smith for winter fish. Both would recommend your 8 weight over the 6 as you’re going to be using skagit heads and lots of T or heavy MOW tip to get down. Timing is critical as the river rises and falls very quickly.

[Jcolin]

Thanks guys, yeah i thought hartwick guided on the smith. Would be cool to float it if thats feasible. Carl, reread my post and im sorry for sounding snotty, all i meant was not my first rodeo steelheading and my expectations are definitely realistic( low).
I have heard the river is generally not fly friendly, theres gotta be some gravel bars and runs to swing though. Think i have my dads old streamtime map for it if i can find it. Thanks and will post a report after i go.

[Carl Blackledge]

Jcolin,

I didn't take any offence to your post. I am a regular fly fisherman for Salmon on the Smith river casting flies out of my pram, If I ever thought I had a shot at catching Steelhead on the fly from the Smith consistently I would have been there and done that (we are maybe 20 years too late). FYI the Smith was so bad this year for Salmon I didn't even go and a few regulars did show up and told me it was the worst on the Smith river this year ever and the Chetco was about the same, Now after that being said you would have a lot better chances to fly fish the Chetco for Steelhead then the Smith. Contact "at rivers edge RV park in brooking's Oregon " rent a little cabin from them walk 2-3 hundred feet and cast to Steelhead and actually catch fish if you time it right. Another suggestion would fish the Russian River, It has lots of Steelhead at the right time, again it's timing and the later in the year the more fish. The last week or two of February and the first two weeks of march has more fish that at any other times of the year, make sure the river is open. That's my 2 cents. Carl Blackledge

[WLREDBAND]

Caught on the Smith swinging in January 2019. Big difference between tough to do and impossible!!!! Winter steelheading is definitely tough, but certainly not impossible!!!!

[Troutsource]

I think I'd need adult diapers to fight a fish like that.

[Carl Blackledge]

Sir,

If that fish was indeed caught on a cast fly from the Smith River, that would be an outstanding trophy, and as you said, a difficult task however not impossible. Great picture Great Trophy. :)

Carl

[Jcolin]

Beautiful fish. Carl would/do you guys also fish for steelhead in a similar way to chinook? I mean anchoring prams in deep holes and stripping flies with sinking lines? From reading chatham’s anglers coast and other accounts from folks that have fished these rivers much longer than me it has me curious about trying it in some of the deep holes on the russian from my pontoon. Ive gotten bit enough times stripping my fly back to make another cast when swinging that it seems like it would work well in deep holes as long as you can get deep enough.

[Carl Blackledge]

Jcolin,

I fish out of my pram all the time on the Russian river for Steelhead never Salmon. It's nice to fish by yourself if you use the pram. I also don't find it necessary to fish deep for Steelhead, When fishing for Steelhead you would go through almost the same motions as if fishing for Salmon however the Steelhead on average or only about 5-6 feet deep where the salmon will be near the bottom in most cases. I mostly use an intermediate and depending on water speed (CFS) I might use a number 1 or number 2 shooting head sink rate. The old Cortland blue intermediate has caught more steelhead then all lines put together! We use to buy the Cortland blue line full length in double taper then wack it in half and make two 30 foot shooting heads out of it. You can also buy the Cortland Camo line in full lenth double taper and do the same thing, I think I have 5 or 6 of those still new in the package made into shooting heads. As far as the retrieve, I don't, I just try and stay in-touch with the line. When casting I keep adjusting the up stream casting angle till I find what I think is the best speed and depth and as the line swings to the end of the drift and starts to rise that's usually the grab spot, for me anyway. If you went with a competent guide for a day or even a half day you just might save a lot of time learning the rules on the Russian, I would like to refer you to a good fly fishing guide on the Russian, however i don't know of any. Of course if you call around there is always somebody ready to take your money :) I hope some of this helps? Carl Blackledge

[Larry S]

@WLREDBAND

Outstanding!
Larry S
Sun Diego

[Larry S]

Jcolin,
Experience taught us that any flows below 7-feet in the park meant the river was too
low and clear for us. Headed for the Chetco, which, incidentally has much more spey-switch
type water. As far as the Smith, try the water in the park just below Hiouchi; lots of room.
If you cross to the other side at the forks and drive down toward Stout Grove, there's
swing water above White Horse.
StreamTime maps for both the Smith and Chetco are great investments.
Looking forward to your reports.
Best,
Larry S
Sun Diego

[WLREDBAND]

Just to clarify, I did not catch that fish (wish I did!). I know the guy holding the camera!

[Jcolin]

Great info there, thanks very much Carl. I need to try fishing the deeper, slower holes in the lower river instead of just the good swing runs.

[Jcolin]

Thanks Larry, think when i go i should spend the extra money on an out of state license and fish the chetco too if im already up there

[Larry S]

Jcolin,
I would wait until you're up there to decide. We used to spend a week or more in Hiouchi. When the Smith
lowered and cleared, we'd head to the Chetco. IMHO, the Smith is the fastest rising and quickest clearing stream you'll
ever encounter. We've seen it go up 10-feet over night and then 2-3 days later you're fishing the edges.
Haven't fished it for 12 years or so. It's truly an experience to fish it whether or not you do well.
Go for it!
If you email or PM me your address, I can probably send you my StreamTime maps. Fishing
stuff needs to be used!
Larry S

[Carl Blackledge]

Jcolin,

Why fish the deeper pools?

If you go down to Casini's ranch and pay your small fee you will see wonderful fishing water, and don't go far out, the fish travel 10 feet off shore and you will see the Vs as the fish go up the River on a falling tides, Stay back from the water at least 10 feet and cast away. They are hard to catch as most moving fish are but they do bite. good luck

Carl

[Tony Buzolich]

I used to fish Cassini a lot when things were happening. Carl's right on about fishing close in.

Just across from Cassini is Austin Creek and there used to be access there too. I'd often stop there and fish till dark on my way up to our hunting club past Cazadero. We hunted pigs all winter long during steelhead season.
Tony

[Larry S]

@Tony,
One of the things I love about the Kiene forum is the collection of
old timers with their wealth of experiences and knowledge coupled
with the younger set offering a new outlook and fresh way
of dealing with the changing conditions. We all have so much to learn from
and to offer each other.
Best to you,
Larry S
Sun Diego

[Pupa]

Great thread! Has anyone ever had any luck deep nymphing through those hard to reach runs and pockets wade-fishing? Maybe on one of the Smith forks?

[Larry S]

Pupa,
Some interesting water on the South Fork with the right conditions.
Pull off at "Sand Camp." Unfortunately, private ownership has entered the discussion.
Still, worth a try. Hike downstream a bit for a deep run.

[Jcolin]

Thanks for all the info guys. Ill have to try Cassinis this year. Have wanted to float from Monte Rio to Cassini in my pontoon to be able to fish the Austin creek riffle but have been hesitant due to all the frog water.

Floated Guerneville to Monte Rio yesterday, got one smolt and that was it. Hoping this rain brings some fish up, the report I'm getting from other anglers I talk to on the river is not very good, not much news of big winter fish caught yet.

[Idadon]

I’ve fished the Smith for 60+ years. It’s always been a Love/Hate relationship though. Spent 2 weeks at the CG above Gasquet back in 2013 and almost drew a blank except for one hookup that decided saltwater was more to his liking and outran me heading down river. That take was on a white plastic worm under a float.

Some good advice here from Carl and others. Fish the edges carefully! If you get that really clear water use bright green on a nickel hook with a splash of purple somewhere. Best advise I can give is don’t waste to much time with a fly rod just swallow your pride and fish a nightcrawler. I like the South Fork best.

[BobVP]

Hi Carl, thanks for the response. Without a doubt, people still fly fish the Smith river, though I realize you may not. Do they catch them consistently and on a regular basis? I'm sure they don't. I don't on any river in general in the winter, I know I'm lucky to hook (not land) 3 winter steelhead a season swinging flies on the Russian river and Mendocino coastal rivers, and I'm on the water as much as possible during the winter, weather permitting, even if its only an hour before work. If I spend 3 days swinging flies on the South Fork Eel and I get a single legitimate grab that's a good trip. So to be clear, obviously a 3 day trip to the Smith would likely result in a skunk, as do most days for me swinging flies for winter steelhead.

Best description of steelhead fishing, at least in my world, I have read in a long time.
Mendocino coast streams are just too beautiful to pass by without fishing them and way too beautiful to worry about catching anything.

[Larry S]

BobVP and Jcolin,
Fished the 10 Mile several times back in the 70's. Had to get permission at Ft Bragg.
Completely different from other coastal streams. I think the estuary is now closed.
Even Alder Creek deserved a look. I'm wondering if casting into the surf
near those rivers might be worth a try.
Best to you,
Larry S
Sun Diego

[Troutsource]

I think you gotta love just being outside in a river, that kind of baptismal experience. Catching or hooking a fish is a plus.

[JasonB]

Agreed! I love the Smith, and have pretty much no interest in fishing gear or bait personally, so I swing flies... mostly for nothing other than hope. It’s a special river, and I really wish it were more productive for those of us who love to swing flies, but it is what it is. I have no intention of just giving up, but I have to agree that the cards here really are stacked against you. For all the reasons mentioned, and for the fact that the guides there are probably some of the most inconsiderate you will find anywhere imo. My sense is that due to the fact that it is a very challenging fishery for them as well, they tend to view fly fishermen as an added obstacle rather than a legitimate fellow angler (just my perception of things). Given the clear water it’s pretty tough when you have boats floating right over the fish that are holding in more moderate depths, and right over your fly line in the process. Heading up the various forks helps get away from most of that, but it’s still extremely challenging fishing and extremely dynamic flow fluctuations in the winter months. If you do manage to land a steelhead there it will be special and memorable! I still look forward to going despite the fact that I have by far the most hours fished per grab of anywhere I’ve ever fished...
JB

[TaylerW]

Winter of 2013 I fished the smith for the first time. I was up on the south fork with only my spey rod. I stepped in to the smith for the first time, and in less than 10 casts had a beautiful 10lbish hen to hand. Have never caught another on a fly.

[Carl Blackledge]

Perhaps you should have bought a lottery ticket that same day...lol just kidding

Carl