Shooting head weights

[ICE]

So hopefully I can get a clear under standing of shooting heads from the wisdom of this group.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Shooting heads -
T - represents tungsten
# - grains per foot

T-# also represents a fixed sink rate per ft.

Now, with my Sage XP 8wt 10', I typically throw a T-14 cut to 28' = 392 grains as advised by my last local shop.

That is the densest line head I currently have so if I wanted to fish higher in the water column I should be fishing T-12 or 10 at the same grain wt. Now if I was to weigh an I line head or floating head, again the head weight should be the same weight as what ever best loads the rod and that weight is determined by the line length multiplied by grains per ft.

Right?

Thanks folks, it's all very confusing to me. But not really just a bit of a mind f#$k some times.

Now.... I'm gonna weigh each of my heads, measure them, divide weight by length and figure out what the hell I've been beating my rotator cuff up with!

Let me know if I've got this straight. Please and thanks

J. Ice

By the way, writing this out helps my thought process.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

This is an area I do know quite a bit about.


Is this fly fishing for Stripers from a boat or wading rivers for Steelhead?

[ICE]

Truthfully, I didn't consider there being much differace in distinguishing where or how.
For me, stripers / perch in the surf and stripers in a boat.

[cmcdhuibh]

Personally I have trouble going more than 12’ of t material added onto a shooting head for a rod at 12-12’6.
Rotator cuff aggravations don’t go away, but Spey rods help ease the pain.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Truthfully, I didn't consider there being much differace in distinguishing where or how.
For me, stripers / perch in the surf and stripers in a boat.

For casting and stripping for Stripers most use ~30' heads with running lines or full integrated lines.

For swinging for Steelhead and trout in rivers most use sink-tips for line control.

___________________________________

Looks like you are using heads on a running/shooting line.

Rio Outbound Short Shooting heads:

https://www.rioproducts.com/products/outbound-short-shooting-head


Regular -30' factory looped shooting heads come in many sink-rates. $49.00


Floating

Clear slow sinking

Type 3

Type 6



For your 10' #8 line single hand fly rod you need a Rio OBS 315 grn ST8 ~30' factory heads


Then a 28' length of T14 for super sinking.

[ICE]

Thanks Bill,
Is my general understanding of the system and head to weight to rod correct as explained above?

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Shooting heads have to be between 25 and 35 feet long to cast right.

25' would be for shorter distances.

30' for average distances.

35' for very long distances.

____________________________

You sometimes have to adjust the leader length with the flies used to get a head to turn over right.

Sometimes your leader will "dump" or turn over prematurely if your leader is too short?

[Darian]

I've cast shooting heads ranging from 28' to 32' but had to adjust the casting stroke significantly in either direction from a length of 30'. Assuming the same rod is used to cast each head, it seems like a short head would require a faster casting stroke and the longer head, a slower stroke. But that hasn't always been the case for me. Anything shorter than a 28 footer or longer than 32' (assuming the correct grain window for the single handed rod) makes the timing of loading and casting difficult. The cast ends up being more of a lob....

Are the longer lengths for spey/switch rods?? :confused::confused:

[Jay Murakoshi]

I fished shooting heads most of my fly fishing career. Throwing everything from 225 gr to 600gr heads. Back in the old days, Cortland and SA made different weight shooting heads. Cortland was marked slow sinking - light brown, fast sinking - med. brown and extra fast was dark brown. SA had there own colors also. I always and still use clear Amnesia for my running line. I know most everyone hates that stuff. Sunset line was the manufacturer. It was called Amnesia shooting line. Then they started coming out with the colors but I always stuck to clear. The black would straighten out after the sun hit it being that black color absorbed the heat. I still use LC 13 for my shooting heads, especially for stripers at San Luis and the Forebay. I also use it in Baja. To me it seems to sink faster than the RIO T line material.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Old guys like Jay, Dan Blanton and I started with factory heads by Cortland and Scientific Angler.

These heads were ~30' long with a loop on one end for the shooting/running line and a taper on the leader end.

They came in floating and then many different sink rates from slow to very fast.

They came in line sizes from 7 to 12 ? On average most went up one line size.

[Darian]

Jay,.... Is LC-13 any smaller diameter than a tungsten head?? If so, wouldn't the density of the LC-13 combined with the smaller diameter contribute to a more rapid sink rate?? But, the coating on LC-13 appears thick (without actual measurement). Cortlands trolling line was uncoated braid over a lead core and that was very small diameter.

[Jay Murakoshi]

The plastic coating on the LC13 is somewhat larger than the T lines. I've made 30' coils of both, tied them up with string and threw both in my swimming pool at the same time, the LC 13 hit the bottom a little faster than the T line. Way back in time, I made a few shooting heads out of the uncoated lead core but the problem is the lead broke down. Just like today when I put on lead core lines for people trolling for Kokanee at Shaver, you have to use the nylon coating to tie the lead core to the mono material. All you have to do is twist the lead core a couple times and it breaks. That doesn't happen with LC 13

[Carl Blackledge]

Darian,

Your right about the sink rate, the LC 13 will sink a tad faster then the T-14.

The problem with the LC 13 is that it breaks a lot easier then the rated test.

The problem with the T-14 is after pulling on it for a while it delaminates and the coating comes off in large chunks, Rio told me that the reason for that is the coating and the core weren't compatible whereas one will stretch and one won't, however they also said they were working on that. I do use the Rio 30 foot "tuna" line and haven't ever had any problems with it. My 2 cents

Carl Blackledge

[Darian]

I've experienced the de-lamination issue on T-14. I guess we just have to endure it while RIO gets the incompatibility issue resolved. Bugs me that RIO would go ahead and sell a line that has incompatibility between the core and covering before changing it. T lines are becoming expensive....

[Carl Blackledge]

Darian,

I guess using the T line for smaller fish is OK? However if you go to Mexico and really yard on big fish the T-14 line does come apart, again it doesn't break just the coating falls off after a while.


Carl Blackledge