Frameless pontoons - any experience ?

[steveg137]

Any folks out there using / used frameless pontoon?

Like look of outcast models especially he larger model, think it’s stealth pro.

Looks like they take motor and anchor mounts. Doubt they drift or track well but I’ve read positive reports.

Anyone own one ?

Steve

[TPO]

Any folks out there using / used frameless pontoon?

Like look of outcast models especially he larger model, think it’s stealth pro.

Looks like they take motor and anchor mounts. Doubt they drift or track well but I’ve read positive reports.

Anyone own one ?

Steve

I have the Outcast Scout. Overall, I like it. It's comfortable, keeps my gear in the back dry (unlike my float tube), and rows/ tracks pretty well. I do have to take my Fishing Buddy fish finder out of the water to row, which is a minor nuisance. The bladder sprung a leak and Outcast immediately sent a replacement under the five year warranty which was great. For a quick / short trip I like the float tube, for a longer day or when I need to cover more water it's hard to beat the pontoon. Main downside for me is that it won't fit in the back of my SUV fully inflated. I believe the Stealth Pro is 8' long vs 7' for my Scout, and it has a more durable urethane bladder vs. the vinyl one in the Scout. It also sells $1,000, full retail, as I recall, I paid $525 for my Scout on sale.

Tom

[steveg137]

Super helpful Tom
I do more rowing than kicking due to dodgy knee which is another plus for larger model.
I hear you on not fitting is suv though.
At least can partially deflate i guess.

Thanks again

[Woodman]

I love my Scadden boat. Far more durably built than the Outcast. Would handle some serious whitewater if I were a better oarsman. He'll likely be at the ISE show in January and some good deals to be had during show season.

That said, dealing with Dave Scadden has been challenging for some folks.

[ycflyfisher]

I own two: A first gen Creek Co Voyager ( a boat I wouldn't recommend) and the Scout that TPO mentions. The Scout is a good boat for the money, has a fully adjustable seat and has quite a bit of cargo space for a frameless.

It's also a two chamber design and has the Scotty accessory bases installed. However, the pin thru the oars design helps keep the cost down but is not ideal for generating lots of leverage in moving water.

I've never owned but have drifted in a Scadden.

IMO none of the frameless boats I have experience with track nearly as well as a framed boat, but they don't track so poorly that it's a deal breaker for me. What they don't do well at all is gain upstream real estate. Expect to be pulling hard for 10-15 minutes to gain the same upstream distance you could cover in ~ 5 minutes with a framed boat.


I've personally never popped one while drifting nor do I know of anyone that has, but so much more of the boat surface in is contact with the water that it is scary drifting over every alluvial for the first time each season where the boat is kissing/contacting the bottom frequently. You've definitely got to be much more diligent in watching for stickups and structure that can damage the boat.


The only reason I went frameless is that they fold up compact enough to store 2 boats in the back seat of a passenger car. If you've got the space to haul a framed boat(s) I think I'd go that route. The ease of hauling the boats is really the only real advantage I can see in going frameless.

[steveg137]

What model do you have ? I have the outlaw x, really like it. Handled lower sac and Yuba very well. Had a few issues with valves but he sent me replacements free of charge.

[steveg137]

Makes a lot of sense.
I was only considering it for ease of set up vs my frameless model as it’s a pain at end of each session, also envisage having a larger truck at some point to throw it in but that’s another topic for another day or conversation with my wife :)

[gwris]

2x Woodman. My Scadden is tough enough that I don't worry too much about running over rocks. No frame is lovely, saves weight and setup time. I really appreciate being able to row (easy to row if you blow it up stiff because not much pontoon in in the water) and then kick to position myself for casting while having my hands free.
Gregg

[steveg137]

Hey Gregg, what model of scadden do you have ? Do you use it on Stillwater and with an anchor?

[ifsteve]

I got a Outcast Scout last year and its fantastic. I got rid of my framed pontoons because they were just too hard to transport. I can fit this mostly inflated in the back of my traverse. It tracks fine and has plenty of room. I have an anchor and fishin buddy mounted as well. Depending on where you put the fishin buddy holder strap it can make rowing easier if you take it out. All in all its just what I needed. Got me back into the pontoon game and the range that goes with it compared to a float tube but without the hassles of a framed pontoon.

[Bob Laskodi]

I have both framed and frameless pontoons (both are Scaddens). Frameless pros: Faster and easier setup and transportation. Much lighter so easier to hand launch/carry. Frameless con's: Oars are pin mounted to the tubes and they snap off easier and are harder to row due to less leverage and flex with oars. Framed pro's: More stable, track better, and row better. Safer in whitewater. Framed con's: Pain to transport and take 2X as long to set up. If I'm doing whitewater I will usually take the framed boat since it's safer and easier to row. If I'm not doing whitewater, I will usually take the frameless boat since it sets up easier and faster and is lighter to carry. As usual, YMMV!

[steveg137]

Thanks a lot bob. What frameless scadden do you have?

[njbeast]

Steve,
Myself and a couple of buddies have Scadden's (can't remember..outcast of Renegade)...its the 11' model. I have floated the Klamath above Copco Lake, the Stan and small lakes. Love my Scadden. Easy to row in my estimation...plenty of room for stuff and a pretty good sized deck behind the seat. I have found it to be very comfortable and stable, even in some pretty hairy water. Turns on a dime with little effort...tracks reasonably well. The biggest selling point for me is ease of access/egress when floating down river. It does catch some wind on lakes, but overall an excellent product. Dave is kinda a trip...he likes to okey-doke you but will deal at shows.

[Bob Laskodi]

Thanks a lot bob. What frameless scadden do you have?

Outlaw Renegade for frameless. McKenzie Drifter for framed. I also have a Watermaster and Water Strider, both frameless rafts. A word of caution about Scadden's whitewater ratings for his products. There is no way in $#ll (you know where!) I'd take a frameless Scadden down Class 5 whitewater as he claims you can!!!!

[steveg137]

Bob

Wow I thought my 2nd potential pontoon and Pram was pushing things but you have lots bases covered !
Ok if I share your list with my wife :)
I only plan on still and light river action, I'm not rated for any whitewater
Steve

[gwris]

Steve - I have a Renegade. I use it mostly for still water. Have the anchor set up, but rarely use it except for Baum lake which has current or a windy day. Mostly I like to be able to move to keep casting to new water. Because I sometimes find that I have to carry my fully rigged boat, inc. rods, fins, etc. some distance from the parking/camping area to the water, boat weight becomes a consideration. Keep that in mind. I have used my boat in class 1 and class 2 water without worry and don't worry when pulling it up on rocks on the shore.
Gregg

[Bob Laskodi]

Bob

Wow I thought my 2nd potential pontoon and Pram was pushing things but you have lots bases covered !
Ok if I share your list with my wife :)
I only plan on still and light river action, I'm not rated for any whitewater
Steve
I won't tell you how many boats/floaty things I have to play with!!!! Lets just say I've got no more room at mine or my son's house for any more boats/floaty things!
If your plan is stillwater and light river use only without whitewater, no doubt about it, I'd go frameless. IMNSHO, That's an easy no brainer decision!

[steveg137]

You are a shining light for those of us that can't save ourselves Bob!

Seriously, appreciate the help.

I like to anchor up on still water and drift vs kicking so will look for frameless that best suits that with anchor option.

[drdan]

Steve - I have a Renegade. I use it mostly for still water. Have the anchor set up, but rarely use it except for Baum lake which has current or a windy day. Mostly I like to be able to move to keep casting to new water. Because I sometimes find that I have to carry my fully rigged boat, inc. rods, fins, etc. some distance from the parking/camping area to the water, boat weight becomes a consideration. Keep that in mind. I have used my boat in class 1 and class 2 water without worry and don't worry when pulling it up on rocks on the shore.
Gregg

I have used a Creek Company classic pontoon and liked it but the setup and takedown was about 30 minutes which was painful. I bought a second hand Scadden Predator and I LOVE IT. It is inbelievably light - 13lbs unladen. This makes a huge difference when you need to walk it to and from launch. I would buy it again in a heartbeat. Dave has come out with a newer version that has a more rigid seat, comes with a motor mount, and an innovative removable skag that allows straighter tracking when on still waters. I have taken my pontoon down the Yuba and the Lower Sac and it’s fabulous in 2+ whitewater. Dave is a notorious salesman so I would take his pitch with a grain of salt but he is a real innovator in this space.

Regards, Dan

[steveg137]

Got it , thanks !

[steveg137]

Thanks Dan

[JayDubP]

I have owned several frameless and framed inflatables. Outcast, Scadden, Watermaster and SeaEagle. Outcast and Watermaster are the best construction and the best Customer Service. I had 2 Scadden boats and it was hit or miss on quality and Customer Service (too much one man show?) -- but has the most innovative concepts.

As you are finding out, you will be hard pressed to find one frameless that is suitable for all fishing types, so really qualify where and how you will use it and buy used if you can-- so when your mind changes about what you need, you won't lose too much money--- or end up with too many boats (are there really too many?)

All the inflatable manufacturers will be at ISE- Sacramento in January and Pleasanton Fly Fishing Show in March. Spend a lot of time talking to them before you decide. And try before you buy- Kiene's is an Outcast dealer plus ask on the forum.


My thoughts on Frameless boats for different uses:

FLATWATER WITH A MOTOR- SeaEagle PRO 285fpb- a 9ft "U" inflatable with hard floor, so you can easily stand to cast/fish and the best motor mount available. A real fishing boat. Plus optional raised, swivel, folding seat like a real boat has will be appreciated after a long day on the lake. I have used one on 7 N Calif lakes plus on Lower Sacto (with motor), Yuba and Feather low flow section. Slightly rockered front so it moves well with a motor. Their PRO Series are among very best manufactured boats- you can load it down with every fishing accessory you need. Scadden and Outcast seem to have copied the SeaEagle motor mount, but neither is as strong. Set up time is same as other frameless-- but you could add fish finders, anchors, multiple rod holders, motor, batteries, etc etc etc-- and use a dolly to move it fully loaded to/from the water.
seaeagle.com.



FLATWATER WITHOUT A MOTOR: Outcast Scout or Scadden Escape or Carbon Predator-- if you want a more maneuverable float tube where you can use fins or oars and that will also handle some minor moving water like the Yuba or Feather Low Flow Section.
Side wind on flatwater will push any inflatable around and head wind or dead water make any inflatable a pain to row or fin. You can use Scotty glue on mounts on either brand for rod holders or anchor.


MOVING WATER- DAY TRIPS: Class II or less. Outcast Stealth Pro or Scadden Predator or or Scadden Assault X. Like other posters have said- talk to Dave Scadden at ISE or Pleasanton Fly Fishing Show before you buy a Scadden product... PLUS 95% of people should not be near Class III or higher water while wearing waders and wading boots. So Dave's claims that his boats are Class IV capable always make me shake my head. You should also look at the front bottomless kayaks: Outcast Commander and if Scadden still has one. The bottomless kayaks are good if you just want to get from point to point fast and not fish from the boat.


MOVING WATER- MULTI DAY TRIPS: if not framed, then Watermaster Kodiak with or without the removable bottom (my present boat) You can load this up with tons of camping gear and run most water. Quality construction. Motor mount is strange design which I would not use. Scadden's Assault series with bottomless front is similar design- the XX can be set up for single or double use and carries a decent load. Scadden uses rockered ends to make his rafts a little quicker but worse in wind. Flat style raft like Watermaster puts more of the tubes in contact with water, so it rides higher in whitewater, not so quick side to side and a little better in the wind-- most large rafts are flat tubes-- but row both kinds to see which one fits your style and your use. Neither brand has a motor mount that instills confidence, although Scadden is better design. Dave told me that some of the Scadden frameless Assault models (Assualt XX ?) can use Scadden Dragonfly (?) frames- so you could have both in one boat, but verify that is true. Outcast Striker is great for 2 people...either day use or multi-day use-- not too enjoyable as a single user boat.


Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Jim

[steveg137]

Jim

Really appreciate your input, super helpful.

I want to use the boat for Stillwater and occasional day river floats (LS and LY).

Typically in Stillwater I like to anchor or drift sometimes with drogue.

Due to a bad knee I don’t kick.

Typical still waters are Manazita, Baum...like to try others and Fall River with minn kota.

As you say not one idea boat but you ve given me other food for thought. Including the sea eagle as assume I could use scotty anchors.

Will let you know where I land.

Thanks
Steve

[JayDubP]

Steve, if you are still looking. I received an email from SeaEagle today about a new inflatable for motorized flat water. It is a l"flat" pontoon with a raised swivel seat. In their promo they show it powered by both a Honda gas outboard and an electric. Price point is reasonable. Look at their "Pro" package.

Here is link: https://www.seaeagle.com/FishingSUPs/SUPCAT10


Jim

[steveg137]

Thanks jim

I’m leaning towards frameless pontoon for lakes and some river stuff but will check this out

[ricards]

I have the Outcast Stealth Pro.

The Good News: Lightweight and easy to set up.

The Not So Good News: You're sitting low in the water, so if you want to get someplace in a big hurry, it's not gonna happen. Even with upgraded oars. Framed boats are better from that standpoint. Pick and choose your river water carefully. I don't float the Lower Sac when flows are over 8,500 CFS.

I wouldn't recommend a frameless pontoon boat for Fall River. Get yourself a pram for that water.

[TaylerW]

Watermaster is the only way to go!