Drifting the Mokelumne (sea lion free?)

[Desmo13]

Drifted the American Saturday. 1 Fish, 4 Sea Lions.

Thinking I want to try the MoKe. any advice on Launch/Takeout/shuttle, flies etc?

Mokelumne River day use area to Stillman Magee Park / Mackville road?

[POPPOP]

You have to put your drift boat over a wood gate then drag to over the rocks and gavel for about 60'. Then you have to make arrange ments with caretaker at take out for him to open the gate (20 bucks) or drag the boat 150 feet up hill. So it needs quite a bit of planing and work to plan the trip

[k9mark]

My advice is to drift it in a kayak or pontoon. Drift boat is too much for that river.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Small raft, canoe, kayak or pontoon boat sounds good.


Floating from the Hatchery to Mackville Road in canoe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl_2ZSJhosQ&t=2s

[JayDubP]

Hard shell is better than inflatable on the Moke -- depending on flow, there could be lots of branches, etc underwater that could puncture an inflatable. It would be a difficult hike out.

Moke is gentle float, but lots of snags.

Canoe would be best and SOT kayak would be great.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I think they get a caddis hatch in March/April.

Maybe a Baetis hatch on foggy / overcast days in Jan/Feb.

Should have juvenile salmon in there now?



Do people get out of the PFD and wade fish?

.

[Rossflyguy]

River looks big enough for a Clackacraft. I’ve watched a video with a guide using a 16’ Jon boat with a jet drive to go up the Moke for Stripers. I’d use a power drifter to cruise that place.

[stefanoflo]

River looks big enough for a clackacraft. I’ve watched a video with a guide using a 16’ Jon boat with a jet drive to go up the moke for striper. I’d use a power drifter to cruise that place.


Flows are too Low for any Drifting on a boat. 99% of those that I see are Kayaking or fishing In One. Did see a Fish and Game in a Driftboat Counting salmon carcasses last week ,but they where Dragging it allot in certain Spots . and they where in a Alumaweld Driftboat. Better play it safe in a Kayak or Canoe, You might end up Working harder and getting tired sooner from Dragging that drifboat than casting a Rod!!!

[Sheepdog8404]

Is there any good swinging water? All the footage I've seen lately makes it look more like indicator water.

[POPPOP]

pretty much indicator fishing

[cdevine]

Any reports from the Moke? It was a big salmon year there at the hatchery. Just curious how that has translated not the steelie side.
And pontoon (outcast) or kayak is best for sure.

[k9mark]

I swing there all the time and cover loads of water

[cdevine]

I decided to check it out myself.... Haven't been this year. Water conditions are really nice. Flows are around 350-380 range and pretty clear. The word must be out and its relatively easy to get too because it was busy on a weekday. I bushwhacked and found some good water and was able to get into a few nice fish to hand a bunch of little dinks. Typical winter stuff. Eggs, worms, small mayflies. I swung a bugger as well but no grabs.

BTW, what a bummer. I didn't realize you could use bait out there. Lots of kayaks/pontoons with spinning gear launching night crawlers. Isn't it C&R? Left a bad taste in my mouth.13809

[Siskiyoublues]

BTW, what a bummer. I didn't realize you could use bait out there. Lots of kayaks/pontoons with spinning gear launching night crawlers. Isn't it C&R? Left a bad taste in my mouth.13809


It's a river with a hatchery so definitely not C+R. Put and take and greasy bait go together like butter and toast.

[cdevine]

But I didn't see people keeping fish. C&R w/ Bait. That is a new thing to me. In any event its crowded and fishing wasn't bad. Would rather drive there than get my car broken into on AR.

[stefanoflo]

Lot of Bait guys feel unless its a 8LBS hatchery fish and Worth Bring home they will. Outside that Its Mainly Hatchery River and Most That fish it do C&R Regardless. . They love the Fight of the Residential fish and the rivers health especially, In the Summer Time Thats river gets Crazy with swimmers and certain Folks that will catch fish , Cook it right there on the Grill and Go catch more to eat. It`s sad state of affairs when you see that . I Always ask why they never Charge an Entry fee to Control those type that have no respect for the River or the Fishery at all. Those that respect the fishery will have no Problem paying a fee. but those that come ,trash it ,leave the trash and there life style at the river really makes East bay Mud spend money cleaning it .

[Chris Gearhart]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I guide the Moke out of a drift boat. There are a few spots that can be a little tight but not too bad. As far as swinging goes most of my clients quickly put down the indicator rod in favor of swinging. Hopefully Im not sounding like a "know it all" just trying to pass on helpful info.

[hwchubb]

Swung it a couple of weeks ago with an 11’ 4 wt switch, great rod for that river. Sized down a little, and found some playmates on both a small orange comet and black and orange spey pattern. Also got my 2018 steelhead skunk off, technically, with 2 fish over 16”. Thank you DFW regs!

Anyway, nice low gradient water, and fairly uncrowded away from the hatchery stretch.

[Rossflyguy]

There’s nothing wrong with keeping fish legally, reguardless the type of fishing one is doing. Especially hatchery fish. Just remember, fly fishing was used to catch fish to eat until CNR became popular among the fly fishing community. I for one would rather eat a hatchery fish than to buy a farmed fish from a store. All hatchery fish get bonked.

[winxp_man]

There’s nothing wrong with keeping fish legally, reguardless the type of fishing one is doing. Especially hatchery fish. Just remember, fly fishing was used to catch fish to eat until CNR became popular among the fly fishing community. I for one would rather eat a hatchery fish than to buy a farmed fish from a store. All hatchery fish get bonked.

By this idea you would need to "bonk" all american river steelhead.... Just sayin. 0_o

[Rossflyguy]

By this idea you would need to "bonk" all american river steelhead.... Just sayin. 0_o

I do unless they have an adipose. Just sayin.

[FattMerro]

As someone who is fairly new to fishing the lower American river (7 steelhead cards reported, and zero steelhead over 5lbs caught in that whole span of fishing the AR), I'm completely torn on this argument that seems to come up more and more often. I don't think I'm alone in that feeling either.

I'm obsessed with Steelhead, and I want a healthy local river. What to do? To bonk or not to bonk? I guess I'll grab the popcorn and sit back.

[Jeff F]

As someone who is fairly new to fishing the lower american river (7 steelhead cards reported, and zero steelhead over 5lbs caught in that whole span of fishing the AR), I'm completely torn on this argument that seems to come up more and more often. I don't think I'm alone in that feeling either.

I'm obsessed with Steelhead, and I want a healthy local river. What to do? To bonk or not to bonk? I guess I'll grab the popcorn and sit back.

That debate will never end, and probably deserves it's own thread. But the way I see it, the American is screwed up beyond repair with regard to re-establishing the original wild fish runs and numbers. And the hatchery ain't going away, so there will always be interbreeding between "wild" fish and pellet-eaters. So, since the river is already completely jacked up, I say the more steelhead in there the better. That's why I don't kill any steelhead.

Just think how many more fish would be in that river, and all rivers, if every single fish were released.

[Morgan]

That debate will never end, and probably deserves it's own thread. But the way I see it, the American is screwed up beyond repair with regard to re-establishing the original wild fish runs and numbers. And the hatchery ain't going away, so there will always be interbreeding between "wild" fish and pellet-eaters. So, since the river is already completely jacked up, I say the more steelhead in there the better. That's why I don't kill any steelhead.

Just think how many more fish would be in that river, and all rivers, if every single fish were released.

I agree! But we all know that is too good to be true.

[cdevine]

I fish quite a bit and try to give honest and accurate feedback. The fish I caught were all wild resident rainbows with adipose fins. I didn't catch any hatchery fish returning. Bummer. Wish I had. With all the pressure these rivers get I just am a firm believer in C&R. Not because I fly fish and its cool and trendy. But I would rather they be long term and sustainable fisheries.

Oh well, like I said before its a nice piece of water that is fishing pretty well, but I would avoid weekends. Not really my cup of tea but its close for many to wet a line so I can see the appeal. If you have a kayak or pontoon its a nice float.

[winxp_man]

I do unless they have an adipose. Just sayin.

I don’t know if it’s possibe to go back in time. But the native wild fish that existed at one time on the American River, don’t any longer. If I’m correctly remembering (and after discussing this issue with a buddy) I had read some article dated 1920’s and titled reintroducing steelhead in the American river. Yes it’s that far back when the American had steelhead problems. The toll that mining took on the America river back in the mid to late 1800’s is irreversible! And the steelhead that once where native are gone. There for if you take the idea to bonk all the fish on the America that are hatchery.... well they are all hatchery breed fish.

Like this year I have not seen so many different types of steelhead trout, and rainbow trout. So many different looks on what is in the river it’s not even funny. Point being the more fish at let go the more diverse the gene pool becomes in my opinion. But to each their own. But again to Say bonk harchery fish, you would need to bonk the hole damn river. ;)

[Rossflyguy]

I don’t know if it’s possibe to go back in time. But the native wild fish that existed at one time on the American River, don’t any longer. If I’m correctly remembering (and after discussing this issue with a buddy) I had read some article dated 1920’s and titled reintroducing steelhead in the American river. Yes it’s that far back when the American had steelhead problems. The toll that mining took on the America river back in the mid to late 1800’s is irreversible! And the steelhead that once where native are gone. There for if you take the idea to bonk all the fish on the America that are hatchery.... well they are all hatchery breed fish.

Like this year I have not seen so many different types of steelhead trout, and rainbow trout. So many different looks on what is in the river it’s not even funny. Point being the more fish at let go the more diverse the gene pool becomes in my opinion. But to each their own. But again to Say bonk harchery fish, you would need to bonk the hole damn river. ;)

Law states wild fish are to be let go. How are you going to determine if a wild native steelhead decided to swim up the American instead of a coastal river? You don’t know. You can only assume. Also, how much different genetically are the steelhead in the sac than the American, Feather, or Yuba? I’m sure they’re all the same since those rivers are basically tribs off the sac river and fush have been tracked to frequent all three. So how do they know for a fact the steelhead that originated aren’t the same ones in the sac river or the Lower Yuba or the Feather? Hatchery fish come from a wild source right? Coleman hatchery steelhead seem to be thriving better than the eel strain in the sac valley rivers. So you’re idea that wether they’re clipped or not they’re hatchery doesn’t quit add up. Too many variables would say different.

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

Seems like the lower Moke, Yuba, Feather and Sac have a population of wild native Rainbow trout.

Lower American River gets very warm late Summer / early Fall, especially during a drought.

[winxp_man]

Law states wild fish are to be let go. How are you going to determine if a wild native steelhead decided to swim up the American instead of a coastal river? You don’t know. You can only assume. Also, how much different genetically are the steelhead in the sac than the American, Feather, or Yuba? I’m sure they’re all the same since those rivers are basically tribs off the sac river and fush have been tracked to frequent all three. So how do they know for a fact the steelhead that originated aren’t the same ones in the sac river or the Lower Yuba or the Feather? Hatchery fish come from a wild source right? Coleman hatchery steelhead seem to be thriving better than the eel strain in the sac valley rivers. So you’re idea that wether they’re clipped or not they’re hatchery doesn’t quit add up. Too many variables would say different.

Dude let’s agree to disagree. Fact is there is no such thing as wild native fish on the American. Fact is that in the 1950’s the Eel River strain was introduced. Fact is that letting them go will increase numbers regardless of what you want to think. I remember when in the same damn river you can catch quite a few fish (regardless of size of river because it’s been the same since 1955) in these drought years and low fish years “bonkig” them will not freaking help. But hey you are entitled to your own opinion. And the “law” does state that you can keep “hatchery” fish. I’m done discussing with you. Tight lines and keep on bonking I guess.

[Rossflyguy]

Dude let’s agree to disagree. Fact is there is no such thing as wild native fish on the American. Fact is that in the 1950’s the Eel River strain was introduced. Fact is that letting them go will increase numbers regardless of what you want to think. I remember when in the same damn river you can catch quite a few fish (regardless of size of river because it’s been the same since 1955) in these drought years and low fish years “bonkig” them will not freaking help. But hey you are entitled to your own opinion. And the “law” does state that you can keep “hatchery” fish. I’m done discussing with you. Tight lines and keep on bonking I guess.

So if a coho runs up the American it’s not native? Even if the American is a historic spawning ground for coho? You’re pretty closed minded. Fish choose rivers most suitable. Not all fish spawning in a river originated from that river. That’s how genetics become diversified. The “fact is” it isn’t so cut and dry like you think it is. Unless you have data that natives no longer reside in this river it’s just an assumption. Wild Native steelhead do run in the American. Not the numbers the hatchery fish have but they do. Even if they hatched from a different water source. That’s why the adipose law is in affect. Just like they run up the Lower Yuba with NO hatchery. I’m gonna bonk as many fish as I legally want. Taking fish doesn’t mean you’ll have less fish returns. I don’t know if you know this but they live in the ocean most of their life. Ocean conditions play a far bigger factor than taking a couple fish from a river system. You’re also giving the word “native” a different definition than it really means. The Hatchery for the American is using NATIVE Californian steelhead to stock the river because of poor spawning habitat. They aren’t dumping non native fish. Any river that has access to the ocean can have any steelhead born in any river run up and spawn in it. That’s a fact.

[winxp_man]

So if a coho runs up the American it’s not native? Even if the American is a historic spawning ground for coho? You’re pretty closed minded. Fish choose rivers most suitable. Not all fish spawning in a river originated from that river. That’s how genetics become diversified. The “fact is” it isn’t so cut and dry like you think it is. Unless you have data that natives no longer reside in this river it’s just an assumption. Wild Native steelhead do run in the American. Not the numbers the hatchery fish have but they do. Even if they hatched from a different water source. That’s why the adipose law is in affect. Just like they run up the Lower Yuba with NO hatchery. I’m gonna bonk as many fish as I legally want. Taking fish doesn’t mean you’ll have less fish returns. I don’t know if you know this but they live in the ocean most of their life. Ocean conditions play a far bigger factor than taking a couple fish from a river system. You’re also giving the word “native” a different definition than it really means. The Hatchery for the American is using NATIVE Californian steelhead to stock the river because of poor spawning habitat. They aren’t dumping non native fish. Any river that has access to the ocean can have any steelhead born in any river run up and spawn in it. That’s a fact.

Ross you really are special! Oh and keep bonking them bud! ;)

[Siskiyoublues]

What the heck are you two even arguing about? :rolleyes:

[winxp_man]

What the heck are you two even arguing about? :rolleyes:

No argument here..... hahaha! Just bonking away. :D

And let’s not forget it’s steelhead time. So it’s a must. Hahaha

[Rossflyguy]

What the heck are you two even arguing about? :rolleyes:

He’s butt hurt that hatchery steelhead are being harvested and seems to be the expert on steelhead biology and history. Except he has no reply to the fish that end up in different river systems than they originated from to spawn or knows what the term native means. But I’m the bad guy who harvests hatchery fish because releasing hatchery fish means more fish in the river system. His only way to respond to any of what I said is to call me “special”. The only time a person has to resort to name calling is when they really don’t know what they’re talking about. So I’m going to chalk it up to he’s got some research to do before he starts spouting off “purist” remarks. I’m just gonna leave it at that.

[winxp_man]

Ross you are a funny person. No butt hurt here. And quite a few people know me that are members of this forum. They can tell you it would take more the army of Ross to butt hurt me. ;) But you seem to have a bone to pick with everyone on a variety of subjects. Heck maybe the bass and pan fish section can use some strong debates. ;)

Tight lines!

[Rossflyguy]

Ross you are a funny person. No butt hurt here. And quite a few people know me that are members of this forum. They can tell you it would take more the army of Ross to butt hurt me. ;) But you seem to have a bone to pick with everyone on a variety of subjects. Heck maybe the bass and pan fish section can use some strong debates. ;)

Tight lines!

You have a problem with me bonking fish. I didn’t start this argument. I just finished it and you’re definitely butt hurt if you feel the need to sarcastically remind me to bonk fish. Good to know people on this forum know you. I know people too. Doesn’t mean anything. If you don’t care I bonk fish let it go. You’re not gonna strong arm me cause I take hatchery fish and give me no facts to back up your reason to try and put me down. Especially calling people names. You don’t know me and you definitely shouldn’t be calling someone names you don’t know. Again, I’m leaving it at that. Take it how you want.

[OceanSunfish]

The real debate to have is vs. BuRec. Unfortunately, 'they' never make themselves available nor do they abide by the laws that were created to restore our fisheries (CVPIA 1993) i.g., accountable.

I think everyone here wishes for the same thing...... All of this infighting solves nothing and compared to the big picture, nothing but a spec of dust vs. the will of BuRec and DWR.

[JasonB]

The real debate to have is vs. BuRec. Unfortunately, 'they' never make themselves available nor do they abide by the laws that were created to restore our fisheries (CVPIA 1993) i.g., accountable.

I think everyone here wishes for the same thing...... All of this infighting solves nothing and compared to the big picture, nothing but a spec of dust vs. the will of BuRec and DWR.

Well put, there are much bigger issues to fight

[FattMerro]

Didn't mean to spark any drama from my initial question that led to this RossFlyGuy & WinXP_man, and I shouldn't have derailed the original thread topic. Definitely interesting to see how polarizing this topic can be even amongst ourselves as fisherman though. I feel like the folks on this board attempt to act ethically (per whatever beliefs they have) when on the stream and that means a lot to me. Just trying to educate myself, and will keep trying.

[Rossflyguy]

Didn't mean to spark any drama from my initial question that led to this RossFlyGuy & WinXP_man, and I shouldn't have derailed the original thread topic. Definitely interesting to see how polarizing this topic can be even amongst ourselves as fisherman though. I feel like the folks on this board attempt to act ethically (per whatever beliefs they have) when on the stream and that means a lot to me. Just trying to educate myself, and will keep trying.

You did nothing wrong. It could’ve been a nice civil discussion but there those who mean well and don’t know how to talk to people about their beliefs without trying to ridicule someone. I myself believe hatchery fish aren’t good for the wild fish. For many reasons. Some people here believe hatchery fish are good for the river because it give people a chance to catch more fish. Priorities are different for all fisherman. If people really cared about AR steelhead they’d push for a brood stock program. Make the genetics stronger.

[lee s.]

The real debate to have is vs. BuRec. Unfortunately, 'they' never make themselves available nor do they abide by the laws that were created to restore our fisheries (CVPIA 1993) i.g., accountable.

Well....
I think OceanSunFish FINALLY said something useful on this thread.
Nature DOES keep her nich for wild fish full. Her nich has been reduced to about, what?, 15 miles of questionable spawning and rearing habitat, instead of 90+ miles. Man cannot do in a concrete raceway what nature can do herself. And if the American is like the Russian, there is danged little competition in the smolts as ours have to leave the river in about a month or the river will poison them. Of course, if you are raising wild smolts in the raceways, there may be some competition.
Whether we bonk or not, we WILL NOT change either fishery, wild or hatchery. The hatchery will produce (only what they are funded and not necessarily contracted) replacements. And unless we are much more efficient than the seals and any other predator, nature has it covered.
YES, WE DO WANT RESTORED FISHERIES.......but until we decide to restore the habitat, the water, and the envirionment that they require, we are pissing up a rope.....bonk or not.
Sooooo many organizations promote rocks in the creeks, root wads in the rivers, barbless hooks, and other wasted efforts, when real issues (poison water) get swept under the table.
Rant over......
.....lee s.

[stefanoflo]

Not to ruin the party Compadres! , but I was hoping to get Info on the Moke river below Camanche dam. fishery.
with all this great warm weather thats been in the late 60`s i was looking for a Improved fishing report on that river , not a debate on wild and hatchery fish!!!

so let me ask AGAIN!!!!. any fishing report of steelhead on the moke?????

[pvsprme]

Not to ruin the party Compadres! , but I was hoping to get Info on the Moke river below Camanche dam. fishery.
with all this great warm weather thats been in the late 60`s i was looking for a Improved fishing report on that river , not a debate on wild and hatchery fish!!!

so let me ask AGAIN!!!!. any fishing report of steelhead on the moke?????

There are no Steelhead in the Moke!
Wouldn’t hurt to keep this river on the down low.

[k9mark]

No steelhead in the moke, just little dinks 4 to 8 inches long.

[cdevine]

Read the report I left earlier. I also posted a picture of the sort of fish that I was getting into. Lots of dinks in that system as well. Its crowded. I would avoid weekends.