American river salmon

[lairdbaird]

Does anyone on here C&R salmon on the American swinging flies? I tried last August, hooked and quickly lost just one fish after four or five outings. From my limited experience it seemed like very much a meat based fishery; was surprised by the amount of fish in the river last August-September, all day long I saw fish that had to be at least 20-30 lbs or more rolling out of the water like dolphins, it was quite a sight.

Not really my scene in terms of the combat fishing but people were very kind to me being the only fly guy, and I simply very much have the desire to catch a release a Chinook. I also found it interesting how many foreigners I met on the river, Germans, Russians, Japanese folks etc. do people really travel from that far away for the American salmon run? Seemed like it couldn't be a coincidence.

Any thoughts on the ethics of the salmon fishery in the American? In past threads I've read on this site it seemed like a bit of a contentious issue; I really am not trying to ruffle any feathers, troll or start a big argument or anything, I'm just sincerely curious.
Thanks for any input

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

I was around them my entire life and for some reason they attract lots of anglers.

They trickle in all summer and some get them right at the outlet of Nimbus dam extremely early in the morning.

October and November seem to be the peak of our run.

Andy Guibord, Joe Shirshac, Chuck Campana and Al Perryman are the guys I know who have caught them on flies.

A few years ago a hot spot was below the Goethe/River Bend bridge.

Go into the shop when Andy is working and he can give you advise.


As a rule early in the summer/fall and further down rivers you can find fresher fish.



Yes, PV the Lower Feather River has the best run of most of the Valley rivers.


________________________________________________

In August/Sept you can catch nice fresh ones on the lower Klamath and lower Rogue Rivers.

In November you can catch fresh ones on the lower Eel, lower Smith and lower Chetco Rivers.

_________________________________________________

In the Sacramento River drainage we have a rare fish called the Springers that comes in during the winter and spring and these are extremely fresh like ocean fish. There are a few tributaries up near Red Bluff that are the strong holds for these super chrome fish.

_________________________________________________

On the OR, WA and BC coast they have lots of salmon rivers.

Naturally Alaska is one of the best places to catch salmon on a fly.

.

[PV_Premier]

General advice is to leave them alone. They're here to spawn and fish that aren't caught by flossing or snagging are usually striking out of aggression, curiosity, or boredom. However, fishing behind them with an egg pattern can be highly effective and entertaining.

I've seen and heard of them caught on flies in the feather.

[lairdbaird]

Thanks for the input guys. Bill, have lurked on the website for several years now without posting much and am always impressed and grateful for your generosity in sharing experience and information. PV, that was the impression I got in general since reading about it after last season, would probably spend my time better chasing steelhead. Maybe salmon in Alaska someday if I have the money

[mogaru]

General advice is to leave them alone. They're here to spawn and fish that aren't caught by flossing or snagging are usually striking out of aggression, curiosity, or boredom. However, fishing behind them with an egg pattern can be highly effective and entertaining.

I've seen and heard of them caught on flies in the feather.

Salmon fishing is one of the most popular fish to fish for. Steelhead, sea run trout also come to the river to spawn and we still fish for them. As a matter in fact, people fly fish for salmon all over the country and pay a lot of money to do it. There aren't a lot of people targeting them with a fly on the American and I don't know why (they do it in Oregon, Washington, Alaska, British Columbia), unless you consider it beneath you and only reserved for the "gear guys"............

[mogaru]

Don't be discouraged, fly fish for them. I do. Swing big flies (black and green works well) in the deeper holes of the river at sunrise and sunset. During the day salmon tend to go deep in the pools and are difficult to hook. Good luck.

[STEELIES/26c3]

No reason not to fish salmon or steelhead. Avoid the redds. Avoid long leaders. Avoid tandem fly rigs. Swing away. This year, the water is higher and colder than it has been in decades and the salmon are eating. But most would never know that because they are trying to floss with an 'egg pattern' on the bottom (springers have absolutely zero interest in eggs right now and they are not on the bottom even in the daytime... they are suspended and on the go to get to the headwaters they do not know are blocked by Nimbus Dam...)

[JayDubP]

Just local permanent immigrant. Fortunately most of the fish are snagged/flossed striped of the eggs and discarded.

Isn't "flossing" illegal? I thought CDFW had restricted leader length to 4 or 5 ft.

I have always thought that it was illegal to fish 2 flies during salmon season (or to target salmon).

And don't you have to release any fish that is not hooked inside the mouth?

Jim

[STEELIES/26c3]

Isn't "flossing" illegal? NO, FLOSSING IS NOT ILLEGAL, JUST UNETHICAL...

I thought CDFW had restricted leader length to 4 or 5 ft. NO CURRENT LEADER RESTRICTION BUT CDFW IS HAVING A MEETING ON AUGUST 16TH TO ANNOUNCE THE NEW PROPOSED REGULATION WHICH WILL LIMIT LEADER LENGTH TO NO LONGER THAN 6 FEET ON ALL RIVERS IN CALIFORNIA WITH ANADROMOUS FISH IN THEM. AND IT IS ABOUT DAMNED TIME!!!

I have always thought that it was illegal to fish 2 flies during salmon season (or to target salmon). NOT SO.

And don't you have to release any fish that is not hooked inside the mouth? WE HAVE A WINNER! YES, ALL FISH MUST BE HOOKED IN THE MOUTH OR OTHERWISE RELEASED. YET, MANY FLOSSED FISH ARE HOOKED LEGALLY (FROM INSIDE OUT OF MOUTH) ESPECIALLY WHEN LONG LEADERS ARE DRIFTED THROUGH A RIFFLE WHERE FISH ARE MIGRATING UPRIVER. IT'S EASY TO AVOID THOSE WATERS AND FISH LEGITIMATELY ABOVE AND BELOW FAST RIFFLES WHERE FISH ARE HOLDING IN BETWEEN THEIR MIGRATORY RUNS.

[Bob Laskodi]

UMMMMM, would not a restriction on leader length of 6 feet knock out all the indicator nymphing guys?
Good luck with that. You'd ban a whole lot of LSAC river guides (trout) from fishing!!!! Notwithstanding all the steelhead guides!!!!


Isn't "flossing" illegal? NO, FLOSSING IS NOT ILLEGAL, JUST UNETHICAL...

I thought CDFW had restricted leader length to 4 or 5 ft. NO CURRENT LEADER RESTRICTION BUT CDFW IS HAVING A MEETING ON AUGUST 16TH TO ANNOUNCE THE NEW PROPOSED REGULATION WHICH WILL LIMIT LEADER LENGTH TO NO LONGER THAN 6 FEET ON ALL RIVERS IN CALIFORNIA WITH ANADROMOUS FISH IN THEM. AND IT IS ABOUT DAMNED TIME!!!

I have always thought that it was illegal to fish 2 flies during salmon season (or to target salmon). NOT SO.

And don't you have to release any fish that is not hooked inside the mouth? WE HAVE A WINNER! YES, ALL FISH MUST BE HOOKED IN THE MOUTH OR OTHERWISE RELEASED. YET, MANY FLOSSED FISH ARE HOOKED LEGALLY (FROM INSIDE OUT OF MOUTH) ESPECIALLY WHEN LONG LEADERS ARE DRIFTED THROUGH A RIFFLE WHERE FISH ARE MIGRATING UPRIVER. IT'S EASY TO AVOID THOSE WATERS AND FISH LEGITIMATELY ABOVE AND BELOW FAST RIFFLES WHERE FISH ARE HOLDING IN BETWEEN THEIR MIGRATORY RUNS.

[TahoeJoe]

The leader is defined as the length "between any hook and any weight". So, you get 6 feet (or maybe 4) from the split shot, if you use one. That should work for most indicator fishing scenarios.

[Bob Laskodi]

This post reminds me of why I rarely post here any longer. I was hoping it had changed, but I guess it hasn't. No thanks, not interested in your elite drivel. I'll vanish again.

Only in our dreams and on the NU is indicator nymphing for steelhead dealt with properly.
Leader laws would be awesome, especially for my dog. He has been snagged by more than a few 20ft Bead leaders when we used to lowhole the gear guys and "wrongly" swing flies in the lower River. Haha sorry I swore someone said flyfishing for salmon is unethical!? hahah!? On the American River!?
I'll bet your blog is full of grip n grin dried out indicator steelies. Oh yeah there are a million steelhead "guides" fighting to make money off those pictures too so this won't be easy... This forum always gets me. I need to call ya mark its been a while, always good to chat with someone that has a clue;) funny that we met over a bit of a "leader" conspiracy a few years back eh?

[Darian]

"....CDFW IS HAVING A MEETING ON AUGUST 16TH TO ANNOUNCE THE NEW PROPOSED REGULATION WHICH WILL LIMIT LEADER LENGTH TO NO LONGER THAN 6 FEET ON ALL RIVERS IN CALIFORNIA WITH ANADROMOUS FISH IN THEM...."

I'm confused. Do the proposed restrictions apply to other species than Salmon/Steelhead and dry fly leaders as well as sub-surface?? I'm not normally a gear guy but this proposal seems a bit too broad if so. Needs some clarification....

[STEELIES/26c3]

This year, the American River will remain at 3500 CFS until October 1 at which time it will decrease to 2000 CFS and for the first time in many years, it will go no lower.

The Feather was historically always a much better bet but now the water releases are being managed so that the water coming out of Thermalito is hot and so the spring fish all shoot up the low flow and go directly to the hatchery. Ironically, early in the season (like now...) salmon fishing on the American is as good or better than the Feather.

But what do I know? I'm just the Krazy, token gear guy...

13215

Salmon EAT in cold, high flows.

[STEELIES/26c3]

"....CDFW IS HAVING A MEETING ON AUGUST 16TH TO ANNOUNCE THE NEW PROPOSED REGULATION WHICH WILL LIMIT LEADER LENGTH TO NO LONGER THAN 6 FEET ON ALL RIVERS IN CALIFORNIA WITH ANADROMOUS FISH IN THEM...."

I'm confused. Do the proposed restrictions apply to other species than Salmon/Steelhead and dry fly leaders as well as sub-surface?? I'm not normally a gear guy but this proposal seems a bit too broad if so. Needs some clarification....

Darian, I am uncertain. I would think the regulation would be in place on any river with salmon and/or steelhead runs and for the entire year.

I know that one of the reasons it has taken so long for this proposal to actualize is the difficulty in defining leader length, particularly when it comes to fly gear.

It has already been decided though as Kevin Shaffer, Chief of Fisheries for CDFW stated on KHTK last weekend.

The meeting on the 16th is simply announcing what will certainly be.

The Nimbus Basin will also be closing for good to fishing by 2020 if not next year. The weir adjacent to the hatchery will be removed and the fish ladder will begin above the Hazel Avenue Bridge.

[Darian]

Thanks for the info. Guess I should wait to see how the final version reads....:cool:

[hwchubb]

The Nimbus Basin will also be closing for good to fishing by 2020 if not next year. The weir adjacent to the hatchery will be removed and the fish ladder will begin above the Hazel Avenue Bridge.

Steelies, is this plan actually a go? I remember when it was proposed, at least 10 years ago and maybe closer to 20, and then it disappeared. I think it may have been part of the Hazel construction plan, but thought it had gone away. It made great sense at the time, I thought.

[STEELIES/26c3]

The Nimbus Basin will also be closing for good to fishing by 2020 if not next year. The weir adjacent to the hatchery will be removed and the fish ladder will begin above the Hazel Avenue Bridge.

Steelies, is this plan actually a go? I remember when it was proposed, at least 10 years ago and maybe closer to 20, and then it disappeared. I think it may have been part of the Hazel construction plan, but thought it had gone away. It made great sense at the time, I thought.

YES, it most definitely is going to happen. We'll all know in a week how soon it will be implemented.

[John Sv]

Wait, what's happening? A fish ladder up nimbus? What happens when the fish get over nimbus?

[hwchubb]

The plan that was talked about a few years ago - and this was when I was involved with updating the Parkway Plan in the early 2000's - involved running the fish ladder from Nimbus Basin into the hatchery. It would eliminate the need for the weir, form a longer and more natural entrance into the hatchery, and eliminate the snaggery in the Basin by closing that whole area to fishing. I don't know how close that is to the current plan - maybe those of you closer to it can shed more light.

[BumpBailey]

Wait, what's happening? A fish ladder up nimbus? What happens when the fish get over nimbus?

I am curious too. Forgive me if this is a stupid question....... So once we have a fish ladder and the anadromonids climb and make it into the lake and eventually into the tribs where they spawn. Then what? How do we then get the fry get out and past the damns?

[STEELIES/26c3]

I am curious too. Forgive me if this is a stupid question....... So once we have a fish ladder and the anadromonids climb and make it into the lake and eventually into the tribs where they spawn. Then what? How do we then get the fry get out and past the damns?

The current fish ladder will be extended/diverted in to the Nimbus Basin (above the bridge but still below the dam). The fish will have no problem swimming upstream or uphill but they will end up at the same *hatchery* as there are no plans to build a ladder to allow salmonids access to the headwaters of the NF, SF, and MF of the American River (and most unfortunately I will add...)

Here is a diagram for you:

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/meetings/2017/Jan/inmeetingpresentations/4_DFW_SportFishing_Presentation_WRC_Jan2017.pdf

[John Sv]

Thanks steelies!
On another note... they are going to start trucking of salmon around Shasta dam? (sorry for the thread hijack)

[BumpBailey]

The current fish ladder will be extended/diverted in to the Nimbus Basin (above the bridge but still below the dam). The fish will have no problem swimming upstream or uphill but they will end up at the same *hatchery* as there are no plans to build a ladder to allow salmonids access to the headwaters of the NF, SF, and MF of the American River (and most unfortunately I will add...)

Here is a diagram for you:

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/meetings/2017/Jan/inmeetingpresentations/4_DFW_SportFishing_Presentation_WRC_Jan2017.pdf

Totally forgot that there is still the Folsom Dam too..... I was hopeful for a fleeting moment.....

[BumpBailey]

Thanks steelies!
On another note... they are going to start trucking of salmon around Shasta dam? (sorry for the thread hijack)

This!!! I have heard of this plan but I still can't wrap my head around how they go about rounding up all the fry/smolt in order to get them around Shasta Dam and the Keswick Dam? Nets?? Shock!!! Fish whistle?

I am all for ladders to help the salmon get to the headwaters. I just don't see how we get them back in the rivers and below the dams??